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Recommend a 10 mile training plan (Dungarvan and Ballycotton)
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16-11-2015 11:31pm#1So finally need to succumb to an actual training plan as opposed to make it up as I go along. Aims for now are Dungarvan and Ballycotton with Ballycotton being the bigger target. Have an aggressive enough figure of 66-67 minutes as a target for now but this will be adjusted as i go along.
Currently run 5 days a week, typically 30-40 miles with club session on Monday, Lsr (12-14 miles) on Saturday and everything else when I can fit it in but would like to add in another session somewhere and reckon a plan will keep me honest.
PBs
5k: 19:15
5 mile 32:30
10k 41:40
1/2 1:33:30
So any recommendations for me?0
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So finally need to succumb to an actual training plan as opposed to make it up as I go along. Aims for now are Dungarvan and Ballycotton with Ballycotton being the bigger target. Have an aggressive enough figure of 66-67 minutes as a target for now but this will be adjusted as i go along.
Currently run 5 days a week, typically 30-40 miles with club session on Monday, Lsr (12-14 miles) on Saturday and everything else when I can fit it in but would like to add in another session somewhere and reckon a plan will keep me honest.
PBs
5k: 19:15
5 mile 32:30
10k 41:40
1/2 1:33:30
So any recommendations for me?
Your times don't translate well from shorter to longer distances which indicates a lack of endurance. This may sound a little odd but if you were to buy the book - Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger and Daniels - and follow the 18 week up to 55 miles plan you might give yourself a shot at hitting your target.0 -
So finally need to succumb to an actual training plan as opposed to make it up as I go along. Aims for now are Dungarvan and Ballycotton with Ballycotton being the bigger target. Have an aggressive enough figure of 66-67 minutes as a target for now but this will be adjusted as i go along.
Currently run 5 days a week, typically 30-40 miles with club session on Monday, Lsr (12-14 miles) on Saturday and everything else when I can fit it in but would like to add in another session somewhere and reckon a plan will keep me honest.
PBs
5k: 19:15
5 mile 32:30
10k 41:40
1/2 1:33:30
So any recommendations for me?
As clearier has said your pbs dont line up as the distance extends and his advise is good
they are similar to mine
5K 19:45
10K 41:11
10 Mile 69:30 ( a little soft)
There is no way I would run or come close to a 67 min 10 Mile. I think your target should be 69-70 for ten miles in Dungarven and then try a beat that in Ballycotton0 -
Your times don't translate well from shorter to longer distances which indicates a lack of endurance. This may sound a little odd but if you were to buy the book - Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger and Daniels - and follow the 18 week up to 55 miles plan you might give yourself a shot at hitting your target.As clearier has said your pbs dont line up as the distance extends and his advise is good
they are similar to mine
5K 19:45
10K 41:11
10 Mile 69:30 ( a little soft)
There is no way I would run or come close to a 67 min 10 Mile. I think your target should be 69-70 for ten miles in Dungarven and then try a beat that in Ballycotton
Agreed on the lack of endurance and this has been a work in progress for the last 6-8 weeks of my training with some progress being made. As for the target time it's aggressive (maybe very) and not set in stone but from a motivation point of view I felt that an aggressive target now might work for me. I may well change it closer to the day. To put it another way my real plan is to maximise my performance in Ballycotton using Dungarvan among the way..
The p&d plan is an interesting idea. I have a half notion of carrying on from Ballycotton into a marathon in the summer so might be worth buying and reading anyway. I'm not sure though that entering a marathon training cycle to not run a marathon would go down well at home though in terms of time commitment.0 -
Agreed on the lack of endurance and this has been a work in progress for the last 6-8 weeks of my training with some progress being made. As for the target time it's aggressive (maybe very) and not set in stone but from a motivation point of view I felt that an aggressive target now might work for me. I may well change it closer to the day. To put it another way my real plan is to maximise my performance in Ballycotton using Dungarvan among the way..
The p&d plan is an interesting idea. I have a half notion of carrying on from Ballycotton into a marathon in the summer so might be worth buying and reading anyway. I'm not sure though that entering a marathon training cycle to not run a marathon would go down well at home though in terms of time commitment.
IIRC the base plan that I was recommending starts at 33mpw off 4 days increasing to 5 days after a couple of weeks with the mileage gradually going up to 55 over about 14 or 15 weeks so hopefully it shouldn't make too many demands over and above what you're doing now.
If you started the plan next week you'd get 17 weeks of the plan before Ballycotton and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were to hit your target if you managed to follow the plan for those 17 weeks.0 -
IIRC the base plan that I was recommending starts at 33mpw off 4 days increasing to 5 days after a couple of weeks with the mileage gradually going up to 55 over about 14 or 15 weeks so hopefully it shouldn't make too many demands over and above what you're doing now.
If you started the plan next week you'd get 17 weeks of the plan before Ballycotton and I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were to hit your target if you managed to follow the plan for those 17 weeks.
Well that certainly sounds like it's worth investigating so I'll buy the book today, have a flick through it over the next few days and if it seems managable I'll give it a try starting next week.
Thanks for the help with this.0 -
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I agree with the lads in one sense that endurance is the key but one caveat I would say is just because you are looking to build endurance doesn't mean you have to completely change your current template for training. Alot of people opt for plans to build endurance and often alienate themselves from club sessions etc because they don't fit in but with some tweaks you can make it work without wholesale changes
1 - Club Speed work. Unless you way off the back of the group you could opt to do reps a little slower. This means that you would finish a bit slower but have shorter recoveries comparable to the front runners. It could also lend itself to you adding a couple of reps
2 - Thursday Session - Endurance base. Add a Tempo Run (5k pace +30 sec per mile roughly) / MP Run, Steady State medium run on a Thursday to help with endurance. Cycling through these type of sessions could complement the training being done alreay
3 - Keep long club run.
This would definitely help with strength without compromising the benefits you get from running with a club and in a group with people.0 -
Myles Splitz wrote: »I agree with the lads in one sense that endurance is the key but one caveat I would say is just because you are looking to build endurance doesn't mean you have to completely change your current template for training. Alot of people opt for plans to build endurance and often alienate themselves from club sessions etc because they don't fit in but with some tweaks you can make it work without wholesale changes
1 - Club Speed work. Unless you way off the back of the group you could opt to do reps a little slower. This means that you would finish a bit slower but have shorter recoveries comparable to the front runners. It could also lend itself to you adding a couple of reps
2 - Thursday Session - Endurance base. Add a Tempo Run (5k pace +30 sec per mile roughly) / MP Run, Steady State medium run on a Thursday to help with endurance. Cycling through these type of sessions could complement the training being done alreay
3 - Keep long club run.
This would definitely help with strength without compromising the benefits you get from running with a club and in a group with people.
This makes a lot of sense. I think whatever plan I go with I'd still like to do the Monday Sessions at least with the club. It's a bit of craic and I always found them beneficial so don't see myself skipping them altogether. They'll also be geared towards Ballycotton from now on so more longer reps and hill reps if it's anything like last year and yeah I can probably adapt them somewhat to fit the plan.
Never done a club long run yet but plan on starting them soonish, even if I had company for 10miles it would be a big help.
Anyway bought the book today. I'll read it tonight and see what I think and if I reckon it makes sense for me.0 -
Read the book tonight. Great read with lots of interesting information backed up with solid science. Really did a good job of explaining what each session and cycle is getting to achieve. Will have to reread it a few times to fully absorb it but a well spent few hours. Will want to get the plan into excel and play around with it though to see if it fits with me (tomorrow) and possibly tweak it a little to accommodate club sessions etc.
Few quick queries though I'd like some opinions on
1. Would like to add in a race or two along the way to gauge progress, have mini goals etc but when would be a good time to add these in? Dungarvan is 5 weeks from goal so that's one but when else might be appropriate? Races are in short supply at this time of year but what would be ideal?
2. Would the 20 mile runs be of much benefit to me or might out be sensible to reduce these a little?
3. The club stuff will likely be longer intervals (3x10 minutes) or 20 minutes of hills then 4x5 minutes or similar. While they reckon that tempos are better for LT than the longer interval training as Myles said it would be nice to keep the club stuff going so would these kind of sessions be a reasonable substitution for the Tuesday session (with some tweaks)?
Thanks again for the help.0 -
Read the book tonight. Great read with lots of interesting information backed up with solid science. Really did a good job of explaining what each session and cycle is getting to achieve. Will have to reread it a few times to fully absorb it but a well spent few hours. Will want to get the plan into excel and play around with it though to see if it fits with me (tomorrow) and possibly tweak it a little to accommodate club sessions etc.
Few quick queries though I'd like some opinions on
1. Would like to add in a race or two along the way to gauge progress, have mini goals etc but when would be a good time to add these in? Dungarvan is 5 weeks from goal so that's one but when else might be appropriate? Races are in short supply at this time of year but what would be ideal?
2. Would the 20 mile runs be of much benefit to me or might out be sensible to reduce these a little?
3. The club stuff will likely be longer intervals (3x10 minutes) or 20 minutes of hills then 4x5 minutes or similar. While they reckon that tempos are better for LT than the longer interval training as Myles said it would be nice to keep the club stuff going so would these kind of sessions be a reasonable substitution for the Tuesday session (with some tweaks)?
Thanks again for the help.
Glad you enjoyed the book.
Races are part of the schedule but they tend to be shorter than 10 miles. The reason for this is that with the level of mileage going on in the plan a 10 mile race will likely take a bit too much out of you. There is where knowing yourself helps though. I know people who can knock out one big effort after another and need to race the shorter races as hard as they possibly can to get themselves ready for their goal race. There are others though who can only have one race at 100%, if they do their tune up race at 100% then their goal race doesn't work out as well as it should have. I have a theory that the further you lean towards slow twitch the more you need the races and vice versa but it's only a theory. In either case though a parkrun can be a pretty good race to do a week or two beforehand as it can give you a decent hit out but you shouldn't be able to hit your maximum as the training isn't oriented towards doing your best at 5k.
The 20 mile runs will be of benefit because they specifically address your endurance weakness but espeically if you have much of a history of injury you could just run for a maximum time of 2 and a half hours and you'll get the benefit just as much.
Swapping around a training plan is all part of the experience and substituting the club session for the tempo runs sounds ideal especially something like 3*10 mins. If you can, aim to get as many minutes at LT effort as is prescribed in the plan - also look for progression over the plan. Don't sweat it too much though.0 -
Busy few days in work but got the plan into excel and played around with it a bit to get it to suit. Going to use it as a guide and not too rigidly so probably won't quite hit 55 miles but the focus on LT runs will help as I've always tended to avoid these and when I do run then I tend to mess then up.
Might be back for some tapering advice as I'm sure I'll diverge at that point but for now I'm think I'm on the right track.
Thanks for the all the help0 -
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