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Marú - An Officer's Downfall - Murder at Mespil Road, Dublin - 1934 *please help me*

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  • 28-01-2011 1:00pm
    #1
    sheskabeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭


    Hello...

    This is my first time - so please forgive me for its length and any errors!

    At Christmas just passed my sister, brother and myself were discussing my mother's father, the odd thing was that my sister had a different version of events so I set about trying to research the incident.

    Perhaps you may understand our shock that by sheer coincidence this was featured on a recent TV programme aired in Ireland on 18th January 2011 -Marú 'An Officer’s Downfall - Murder at Mespil Road, Dublin – 1934' None of the family here or in Ireland were aware of this programme until the date it aired.

    The incident involved a family dispute which resulted in my mother's father Leo O'Brien shooting his brother-in-law - John Stokes.

    As children we were always told the Leo had died when my Mother was 8, it was only in recent years that she told us the truth, however she is now dead.

    I can find nothing on the Web regarding this, I can however find articles in the Irish press archives.

    This programme has only posed more questions.... I am hoping that this post can help to answer this one.

    At the end of the programme the narrator said that Leo's death sentence was commuted to penal servitude for life. This was due to a petition at the time that 60,000 people signed - this was largely down to his wife and her sister - the woman whose husband he killed.

    See article http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=EP19350928.2.178.12


    Would so many have signed this petition because of his standing in society (he was a Commandant in the Free State Army) or because of public protest at capital punishment in general?

    Does anyone know where I can find out more information? Does anyone have any information on this?

    Thank you kindly for reading this and for any help that you may offer. It is to say the least an interesting tale though we are quite ashamed to be related to basically a murderer alas it seems that from what information I have been able to find that he was suffering from mental illness.

    Kind regards
    S


Comments

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    #2
    Jo King
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Jo King


    From what I can make of it the reference to his "good national record", and his senior rank in the army at an early age would imply some heroism in the War of Independence. The vast majority of the officers in the army at that time were those who had been appointed at the end of the war of independence and retained after the famous general routine order of 1923. The first cadets were inducted into the army in 1929 and were all second lieutenants in 1934.
    There may have been public sympathy arising out of the circumstances of the incident. It may have been felt that the brother in law provoked the situation. A hung jury indicates that some people were not prepared to condemn him.


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    #3
    Guillemot
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Guillemot


    Dear S,

    Our family is also related to Leo O'Brien; his sister was our grandmother, which would mean your mother and our father were first cousins, born within two or three years of each other. That makes us second cousins.

    We knew nothing of the murder when we were children, but my brother has done quite a bit of research, perhaps something he has come up with may be of some interest to you.

    I don't know how this works (someone showed me your post and I joined up so I could reply) but maybe the moderator could put us in touch by email if you were interested?

    It is as you say a fascinating story, I look forward to hearing more!

    K


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    #4
    Trangiact2
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Trangiact2


    I came across this thread quite be accident. If you know of any other facts relating to this incident I would be very interested in hearing about it. John Stokes, who was murdered, is my namesake and was in fact my father's uncle. I am not sure how this forum works but I would be interested in hearing more if you have any details.


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    #5
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    sheskabeb wrote: »
    Hello...

    This is my first time - so please forgive me for its length and any errors!

    At Christmas just passed my sister, brother and myself were discussing my mother's father, the odd thing was that my sister had a different version of events so I set about trying to research the incident.

    Perhaps you may understand our shock that by sheer coincidence this was featured on a recent TV programme aired in Ireland on 18th January 2011 -Marú 'An Officer’s Downfall - Murder at Mespil Road, Dublin – 1934' None of the family here or in Ireland were aware of this programme until the date it aired.

    The incident involved a family dispute which resulted in my mother's father Leo O'Brien shooting his brother-in-law - John Stokes.

    As children we were always told the Leo had died when my Mother was 8, it was only in recent years that she told us the truth, however she is now dead.

    I can find nothing on the Web regarding this, I can however find articles in the Irish press archives.

    This programme has only posed more questions.... I am hoping that this post can help to answer this one.

    At the end of the programme the narrator said that Leo's death sentence was commuted to penal servitude for life. This was due to a petition at the time that 60,000 people signed - this was largely down to his wife and her sister - the woman whose husband he killed.

    See article http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=EP19350928.2.178.12


    Would so many have signed this petition because of his standing in society (he was a Commandant in the Free State Army) or because of public protest at capital punishment in general?

    Does anyone know where I can find out more information? Does anyone have any information on this?

    Thank you kindly for reading this and for any help that you may offer. It is to say the least an interesting tale though we are quite ashamed to be related to basically a murderer alas it seems that from what information I have been able to find that he was suffering from mental illness.

    Kind regards
    S
    Guillemot wrote: »
    Dear S,

    Our family is also related to Leo O'Brien; his sister was our grandmother, which would mean your mother and our father were first cousins, born within two or three years of each other. That makes us second cousins.

    We knew nothing of the murder when we were children, but my brother has done quite a bit of research, perhaps something he has come up with may be of some interest to you.

    I don't know how this works (someone showed me your post and I joined up so I could reply) but maybe the moderator could put us in touch by email if you were interested?

    It is as you say a fascinating story, I look forward to hearing more!

    K
    Trangiact2 wrote: »
    I came across this thread quite be accident. If you know of any other facts relating to this incident I would be very interested in hearing about it. John Stokes, who was murdered, is my namesake and was in fact my father's uncle. I am not sure how this forum works but I would be interested in hearing more if you have any details.


    You can PM (Private message) each other a bit like e-mail you can give details to each other by the way keep us updated and how long did Leo O'Brien serve in prision and when was he released. Just click on the user name and you will see the faucility


  • Options
    #6
    amelia2204
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭amelia2204


    Hello

    I have only just come across this site and found it via noticing the link for the Maru episode on your grandfather. I have not seen the programme as it has not aired in England and I can't see to get a copy of it; plus it does not seem to be on line but I'm am really interested to view it. Firstly Leo O'Brien was my grandfather's younger brother and I too have heard many stories regarding the incident. My mother who is still alive (nearly 90) says that her mother (your grandfather's sister in law) went to Leo's trial every day. I guess this makes us cousins of some sort and was hoping that you could get in contact.

    Regards

    Amelia
    sheskabeb wrote: »
    Hello...

    This is my first time - so please forgive me for its length and any errors!

    At Christmas just passed my sister, brother and myself were discussing my mother's father, the odd thing was that my sister had a different version of events so I set about trying to research the incident.

    Perhaps you may understand our shock that by sheer coincidence this was featured on a recent TV programme aired in Ireland on 18th January 2011 -Marú 'An Officer’s Downfall - Murder at Mespil Road, Dublin – 1934' None of the family here or in Ireland were aware of this programme until the date it aired.

    The incident involved a family dispute which resulted in my mother's father Leo O'Brien shooting his brother-in-law - John Stokes.

    As children we were always told the Leo had died when my Mother was 8, it was only in recent years that she told us the truth, however she is now dead.

    I can find nothing on the Web regarding this, I can however find articles in the Irish press archives.

    This programme has only posed more questions.... I am hoping that this post can help to answer this one.

    At the end of the programme the narrator said that Leo's death sentence was commuted to penal servitude for life. This was due to a petition at the time that 60,000 people signed - this was largely down to his wife and her sister - the woman whose husband he killed.

    See article http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=EP19350928.2.178.12


    Would so many have signed this petition because of his standing in society (he was a Commandant in the Free State Army) or because of public protest at capital punishment in general?

    Does anyone know where I can find out more information? Does anyone have any information on this?

    Thank you kindly for reading this and for any help that you may offer. It is to say the least an interesting tale though we are quite ashamed to be related to basically a murderer alas it seems that from what information I have been able to find that he was suffering from mental illness.

    Kind regards
    S


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    #7
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Have any of you tried contacting Lawrence Gough, the director of the programme, or Stuart Drennan, its writer?

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2334918/

    I see that Leo O'Brien was one of the people involved in Michael Collins' operation to kill a group of British agents in Dublin known as the Cairo Gang on November 20, 1920:

    http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS1299.pdf#page=11

    It's very possible that he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder after the War of Independence. One result of this disorder is the risk of explosive outbursts of violence on relatively small provocation.


  • Options
    #8
    mary174
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭mary174


    Hi,
    I'm related to the Marie family, the sisters who were married to John Stokes & Leo O'Brien. I have been researching this story & would love to hear from anyone who has any information.
    Thanks, M.


  • Options
    #9
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    There are a few references to Leo O'Brien in the records released by the Bureau of Military History:

    http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/bmhsearch/search.jsp?querystr=%22leo+o%27brien%22

    It might be worth going to Cathal Brugha Barracks in Rathmines, where the Military Archives are kept, to see if they have further, unreleased material. Ring first.


  • Options
    #10
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    There are a few references to Leo O'Brien in the records released by the Bureau of Military History:

    http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/bmhsearch/search.jsp?querystr=%22leo+o%27brien%22

    It might be worth going to Cathal Brugha Barracks in Rathmines, where the Military Archives are kept, to see if they have further, unreleased material. Ring first.
    TG4 have done some fascinating documentaries as has Cathal O Shannon. Hope the poster succeeds in getting the background to this case


  • Options
    #11
    Trangiact2
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Trangiact2


    Hi,

    John Stokes was my grandfathers brother, so I have some details. Let me know if you want further information

    Regards
    J
    mary174 wrote: »
    Hi,
    I'm related to the Marie family, the sisters who were married to John Stokes & Leo O'Brien. I have been researching this story & would love to hear from anyone who has any information.
    Thanks, M.


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    #12
    niamhbee
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭niamhbee


    Hi
    The younger sister of the 2 Marie girls was my Grandmother. If you would like to contact us we can give you any information we have....my Dad has done some research into it.
    John Stokes's Son is still alive and living in Canada, and he is my Dad's first cousin, and we are in contact with him and his children on a regular basis.
    Hope to hear from you!
    Niamh


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    #13
    mary174
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭mary174


    Niamh,
    I’m delighted to hear from you. My grandfather, John O’Connor was a first cousin to the Marie family (Mrs. Marie’s maiden name was O’Connor.) I think that makes us third cousins! I’d love to contact you & your family in the new year. I’m a bit preoccupied with Christmas preparations at the moment! If you don’t hear from me in the first few weeks in January, contact me again, please. (There’s a lot going on in my life & I might forget!) In the meantime, have a very happy Christmas, & thanks again for getting in touch.
    Regards
    Mary


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    #14
    niamhbee
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭niamhbee


    Hi Mary
    Thanks for the reply, great to hear from you. I just told Dad and he knew who your Grandfather was...Johnny O'Connor (he said they used to call him Johnny!)
    We will be in touch in the New Year definitely, as Dad is at a bit of a dead end with the family tree on the O'Connor side so he'll be asking you about that I'd say :)

    Have a great Christmas and New Year, and talk to you soon!
    Niamh


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    #15
    mckennamike
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭mckennamike


    I am very interested in the long term psychological effects that activities the War of Independence and Civil War had on veterans of those conflicts. I had come across Leo O'Brien's name a couple of times in relation to operations in Dublin during the War of Independence, but I had never heard about the tragic killing of John Stokes until I came across this thread recently.

    I would be really interested in corresponding with family members to find out more about both men and what happened.

    *****mod edit. Personal details removed*** you cannot post these here. People can pm you if they wish.
    Jonniebgood1


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