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Should gambling talk be allowed again?

  • 22-10-2014 9:45pm
    #1
    thewobbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭


    I'm probably falling foul of some other charter rule, but here goes.

    Every charter needs reviewed from time to time, to stay with the times and what have you.

    Personally I miss the gambling talk on tour threads. There was always some mad bets announced, but some of the boardsies had a habit of bringing wonderful trivia and stats to back up their picks. Proper insights.

    Separating golf discussion from golf gambling discussion has made tour threads weaker.

    Anyone care to agree or disagree?

    If gambling talk was allowed again, how would you feel? 37 votes

    I'd be happy for this to happen.
    0% 0 votes
    I'm ambivalent at best, downright opposed at worst. Keep it the way it is.
    100% 37 votes


Comments

  • #2
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    thewobbler wrote: »
    I'm probably falling foul of some other charter rule, but here goes.

    Every charter needs reviewed from time to time, to stay with the times and what have you.

    Personally I miss the gambling talk on tour threads. There was always some mad bets announced, but some of the boardsies had a habit of bringing wonderful trivia and stats to back up their picks. Proper insights.

    Separating golf discussion from golf gambling discussion has made tour threads weaker.

    Anyone care to agree or disagree?

    There is a gambling chat only thread already. Post away in there. Am not on my computer now to link the thread.


  • #3
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    when there's a gambling forum, I dont think theres any need

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056896763


  • #4
    ForeRight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,695 ✭✭✭ForeRight


    It's a mugs game


  • #5
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    There's a gambling forum, and a gambling thread on this forum.

    You want to talk about gambling, then take it to one of these - the golf forum is, and should be, for talking about golf (the hint is in the name).

    Any change would just see us revert to the old way where any major tournament thread, and most smaller tournament threads as well, were overrun by posts about the odds available at different bookies, drowning out any actual golf discussion.


  • #6
    John Divney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    I think it's one of the better policys. Some people struggle with addiction and it's pretty great that gambling and normal tour discussion are separated.


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  • #7
    Seve OB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    John Divney wrote: »
    I think it's one of the better policys. Some people struggle with addiction and it's pretty great that gambling and normal tour discussion are separated.

    I'm addicted to Boards :rolleyes:


  • #8
    Anatom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Anatom


    As above, I really don't see the need.


  • #9
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    John Divney wrote: »
    I think it's one of the better policys. Some people struggle with addiction and it's pretty great that gambling and normal tour discussion are separated.

    Christ above..... if someone with an addition is on the internet, the last place they will tempted is by a golf thread on boards.


  • #10
    John Divney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    bustercherry wrote: »
    Christ above..... if someone with an addition is on the internet, the last place they will tempted is by a golf thread on boards.

    Actually it's the first place if they are into golf and a boards member. You go it betfair to gamble, you go to a golf forum to talk about golf. In the major threads people are constantly talking about gambling, odds etc, almost more exciting than the actual golf for some.

    I like to bet, and do on golf, but I don't think it adds to the threads, and with how pervasive betting ads are now infesting every sport, it's a smart gesture to leave it for another place.

    Use your cheese box.


  • #11
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    John Divney wrote: »
    Actually it's the first place if they are into golf and a boards member. You go it betfair to gamble, you go to a golf forum to talk about golf. In the major threads people are constantly talking about gambling, odds etc, almost more exciting than the actual golf for some.

    I like to bet, and do on golf, but I don't think it adds to the threads, and with how pervasive betting ads are now infesting every sport, it's a smart gesture to leave it for another place.

    Use your cheese box.

    You are living in a fantasy world if you seriously believe anyone talking about their 2 euro each way picks on here have any impact on these people. It's akin to taking racing tips from someone who bets once a year on the grand national.

    Go back to you slow motion videos :rolleyes:


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  • #12
    kieran.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭kieran.


    bustercherry wrote: »
    You are living in a fantasy world if you seriously believe anyone talking about their 2 euro each way picks on here have any impact on these people. It's akin to taking racing tips from someone who bets once a year on the grand national.

    Go back to you slow motion videos :rolleyes:

    For someone dealing with a gambling addiction, the value of the bet whether it be €2 or €2000 is relevant. The discussion of anything gambling related can awaken their memories of the 'buzz' of previous winners and losers. It is the addiction to the 'buzz' that the problem with most addicts and the winning and losing is simply the consequence.

    The comments you’ve made on this thread show very clearly not dealt with any these issues yourself. Perhaps you keep your opinion to matters you have more knowledge of.


    As many above say its a golf forum lets leave it that way.


  • #13
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    It doesn't bother me in the slightest whether or not gambling chat should make it's way back onto the forum, neither adds nor takes from it imo. Surely the reason that such chat might re-ignite an addiction very much depends on the reader, for which they themselves should be responsible.
    That's just a bad excuse imo.


  • #14
    John Divney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    bustercherry wrote: »
    You are living in a fantasy world if you seriously believe anyone talking about their 2 euro each way picks on here have any impact on these people. It's akin to taking racing tips from someone who bets once a year on the grand national.

    Go back to you slow motion videos :rolleyes:

    You know this how? Or are you just making assumptions based on how you feel about it personally, in place of any actual knowledge?

    I felt annoyed I couldn't post about winnings one day, then I thought about it for 5 seconds and appreciated it and got over it.


  • #15
    John Divney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    It doesn't bother me in the slightest whether or not gambling chat should make it's way back onto the forum, neither adds nor takes from it imo. Surely the reason that such chat might re-ignite an addiction very much depends on the reader, for which they themselves should be responsible.
    That's just a bad excuse imo.

    Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour, it's just a courtesy that the threads aren't clogged with odds and punts, like all the major threads would be as people flock to it soley to talk about their bets.


  • #16
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    John Divney wrote: »
    Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour, it's just a courtesy that the threads aren't clogged with odds and punts, like all the major threads would be as people flock to it soley to talk about their bets.

    Agree, not saying any different. Hate to think Nanny state had infiltrated the golf forum.


  • #17
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    It doesn't bother me in the slightest whether or not gambling chat should make it's way back onto the forum, neither adds nor takes from it imo. Surely the reason that such chat might re-ignite an addiction very much depends on the reader, for which they themselves should be responsible.
    That's just a bad excuse imo.

    So if someone is recovering from a gambling addiction, that means they shouldnt use the golf forum ?

    Seems fair.


  • #18
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    Rikand wrote: »
    So if someone is recovering from a gambling addiction, that means they shouldnt use the golf forum ?

    Seems fair.

    Nor should they buy a newspaper either. Come to think of it, they should stay indoors altogether.

    That's not what I'm saying, as well you know. Gambling chat shouldn't be allowed for the simple fact it clusters up the thread. But to disallow it because of gambling issues held by any reader would be silly.


  • #19
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    kieran. wrote: »
    For someone dealing with a gambling addiction, the value of the bet whether it be €2 or €2000 is relevant. The discussion of anything gambling related can awaken their memories of the 'buzz' of previous winners and losers. It is the addiction to the 'buzz' that the problem with most addicts and the winning and losing is simply the consequence.

    The comments you’ve made on this thread show very clearly not dealt with any these issues yourself. Perhaps you keep your opinion to matters you have more knowledge of.

    As many above say its a golf forum lets leave it that way.

    So watching a sport or event that contributed to that buzz by your rational is the same :rolleyes:

    From first hand experience, listening to a few average golfers talking about their 5 euro each way on Pouter because he wears nice trousers doesn't do it. The problem is you seem to fail to address the fact that as with any addiction, eventually it takes more and more to gain that buzz. So the value of the bet is relevant to a large number of addicts.

    Further not every gambler is the same and certainly it really shows a nativity on your behalf, not mine. At one point I would bet based on sophisticated models, I borrowed from financial markets, on reality TV results such as xfactor. The buzz came from proving these mathematical models worked (and didn't work in a lot of cases).

    Not everything is so black and white.


  • #20
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,993 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I was actually for gambling to be back on - great laugh when you have a big win in a major.

    But - I honestly think the other side have won the debate.

    When the major threads are on - lads not into golf at all are going on about 47 euro e/w on Noh Sung - Yul .

    There are other options for lads into gambling to talk about gambling. Golf nerds on here, are going to enjoy someone going on about a draw from 207 yards with a 6 iron more.

    I don't think the intruders are that big a deal - but they normally drift into - Rory is a %$££$ %$ s%4 head.

    If it was somehow possible for the regulars just to say in passing - I gave 40 e/w on Rory.

    But it is impossible to make one rule for one and another for another.

    I think people are a bit puritanical about the gambling debate here.

    But - can understand golf heads - wanting their golf threads about golf threads.


  • #21
    Rikand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Nor should they buy a newspaper either. Come to think of it, they should stay indoors altogether.

    That's not what I'm saying, as well you know. Gambling chat shouldn't be allowed for the simple fact it clusters up the thread. But to disallow it because of gambling issues held by any reader would be silly.

    Actually I missed the point entirely. Apologies for that


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  • #22
    thewobbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    You know what I largely agree with you Fixed.

    I guess my thinking is this. I'm not a big punter and most weeks I'm not even a punter at all. But I love to read golf fanatics talking about punting.

    A man puts up 6 selections for the Open on a punting thread and its analysed statistically: current form, course form.

    A man puts up the same selections on a golfing forum and suddenly a golf lover will talk about how Bjorn has been struggling out of bunkers, or Dufner has been playing irons off the tee in competitive play recently, or how Casey has been hitting the ball lower, and it's a different thing.

    Golf creates the platform, gambling starts the discussion, golfing leads the discussion. Just my tuppence


  • #23
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,333 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    thewobbler wrote: »
    You know what I largely agree with you Fixed.

    I guess my thinking is this. I'm not a big punter and most weeks I'm not even a punter at all. But I love to read golf fanatics talking about punting.

    A man puts up 6 selections for the Open on a punting thread and its analysed statistically: current form, course form.

    A man puts up the same selections on a golfing forum and suddenly a golf lover will talk about how Bjorn has been struggling out of bunkers, or Dufner has been playing irons off the tee in competitive play recently, or how Casey has been hitting the ball lower, and it's a different thing.

    Golf creates the platform, gambling starts the discussion, golfing leads the discussion. Just my tuppence

    Very good point about it starting a discussion.

    At the start, I wanted gambling talk allowed but quickly changed my view on that after the first major had passed. It was way better without it. The thing with the majors is that they attract a lot of casual golf fans here and their discussions rarely went passed "I've backed these 20 golfers"....that added nothing.

    A "best case scenario/comprimise" for me would be if gambling talk was allowed in the Tour Threads for regular events (and by default for regular followers of golf) but then restricted from Major Threads.
    For the Majors, we could take our discussion to the gambling thread... Let the gambling thread be the dump for people popping in to tell us about their bets before leaving.

    That gambling thread was destined for failure, it was set up to allow people to talk about their weekly bets but in reality it was (or people felt it was) forced upon them imo. It was never going to take of.

    I think gambling talk would add to the forum, but in a controlled manner, and that's about the best way I can think of. The regulars will have had their discussion about the majors long in advance of the influx on the Thursday mornings.


  • #24
    thewobbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    It's a tough one on mods.

    Say it's the Irish Open and I want to talk about Paul Casey.

    Which of these starts a conversation better among golf fanatics?

    "Has Paul Casey got a chance this week?"

    "Paul Casey at 40/1 has caught my eye. Why are his odds so big".

    The former gets maybe a response or two before we all go back to talking about Shane and Rory.

    The latter has a chance of a full scale evaluation of Casey vs the field. Better for me, better or Boards.. but it also lands me ban.

    Personally I think this is worth putting up with the lads who can't understand why their "GMac has just cost me €100 the twit" comments aren't appeciated.


  • #25
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    For me there are 2 types of gambling speak that go on in forums. One where there are educated people discussing odds and stats and actual chance the player has. I love this it interests me as someone interested in statistics and chance. It's not exactly gambling talk it is more of a discussion on odds and stats nobody mentioned placing a bet.

    The second are the lads who come in saying I had €xxx amount of euro on martin kaymer at 50/1 bla bla. Really I don't care how much people bet or how much you win. People have this need to show off/brag/lie about how much they place on bets or win. Who cares. This type of talk should certainly be banned.

    In saying that it's hard to allow one without the other.


  • #26
    redzerdrog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    If there was gambling a no after timing rule would be crucial


  • #27
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    kiers47 wrote: »
    For me there are 2 types of gambling speak that go on in forums. One where there are educated people discussing odds and stats and actual chance the player has. I love this it interests me as someone interested in statistics and chance. It's not exactly gambling talk it is more of a discussion on odds and stats nobody mentioned placing a bet.

    The second are the lads who come in saying I had €xxx amount of euro on martin kaymer at 50/1 bla bla. Really I don't care how much people bet or how much you win. People have this need to show off/brag/lie about how much they place on bets or win. Who cares. This type of talk should certainly be banned.

    In saying that it's hard to allow one without the other.

    Bingo!
    This is exactly the problem with gambling chat, its either of the two examples above. There are a bunch of visitors who only come to the golf forum when there is a major on and mostly only post about their bets and nothing else. These posts belong in a gambling thread and not here.


  • #28
    blockic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    Should stay as is IMO. No interest in gambling and it floods the threads when it is there. I go to the golf forum to read about the actual golf not about how a certain so and so won a certain amount.

    It's a turn off tbh.


  • #29
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    thewobbler wrote: »

    A man puts up the same selections on a golfing forum and suddenly a golf lover will talk about how Bjorn has been struggling out of bunkers, or Dufner has been playing irons off the tee in competitive play recently, or how Casey has been hitting the ball lower, and it's a different thing.

    Golf creates the platform, gambling starts the discussion, golfing leads the discussion. Just my tuppence

    The problem was that the above rarely happened.

    Instead you just got a queue of people posting their own six selections, the odd few with comments about value in the odds, etc.
    Anyone actually discussing golfing was drowned out by the gambling "noise."

    It ended up having the same type of conversation as would happen on the gambling forum - just with the added bonus of making any actual golf discussion difficult.

    Anyway - if you want golfers discussing their bets like you suggested above, what exactly is wrong with the gambling thread?


  • #30
    Norfolk Enchants_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭Norfolk Enchants_


    It's a no brainer, golf and gambling go hand in hand in this country, always have and always will, to censor that on here is ridiculous, bring back golf gamboooling.


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  • #31
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    I agree with banning just lists of bets as they add nothing of interest to a discussion. The problem is that the charter is ambiguous and some mods just hand out warnings when they shouldn't. The first line of the charter states...

    "Could all betting / gambling talk be kept in the Gambling Mega Thread found here please"

    But then it goes on to say...

    "Do no make posts that are purely around betting/odds in any thread other than the gambling thread above.....Its fine to make a comment on a bet you had on someone etc but this must not be the main purpose of your post."


    I see nothing wrong with the following, for example, but I have seen similar getting warnings from mods who seem to ignore the second part of the charter quoted above...

    "I notice Snedeker is at 50/1 this weekend. Just goes to show how much his form has slipped over the past 2 years since he won the FedEx. I think he will do well here as the course setup suits him."


  • #32
    thewobbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    To date, the 'no' side has delivered a number of highly emotive arguments against.

    The question was also deliberately phrased so that a motion for change - a 'yes' - should mean an absolute yes.

    Yet 'yes' is clearly winning the day.

    So last chance for all who are interested.

    I'm going to lock this thread (if I can do such a thing?) in the morning. If the result is still then on the landslide side of things, I'd kindly ask that the mods look at ways to downgrade the anti-gambling stance of the charter.


  • #33
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    thewobbler wrote: »
    To date, the 'no' side has delivered a number of highly emotive arguments against.

    The question was also deliberately phrased so that a motion for change - a 'yes' - should mean an absolute yes.

    Yet 'yes' is clearly winning the day.

    So last chance for all who are interested.

    I'm going to lock this thread (if I can do such a thing?) in the morning. If the result is still then on the landslide side of things, I'd kindly ask that the mods look at ways to downgrade the anti-gambling stance of the charter.

    You can't lock it but I can and should have the day it was started. Topics like this should have been run by a moderator of the forum before they were posted.

    As the poll was left anonymous we have no idea who voted so it is worthless in my opinion - we get posters who only post in here during tournaments and they could have voted yes for all we know. The "no" posters as you put it are the regular users of the forum and from what i can see they nearly all said to leave it as it is which is my intention - i will run it by my co-mods to get their opinion first. As we said before there is a dedicated gambling forum and gambling thread which is more than adequate.


This discussion has been closed.
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