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NO DIVORCE TO KEEP VISA

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  • 08-11-2014 10:46pm
    #1
    meddot11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi all,
    I am an EU citizen living here in Ireland , married to a NON-EU with regular VISA

    Marriage is over - Period -
    We live apart and i want to be free of this marriage now.
    she told me in clear text that she will not give me divorce because she needs the VISA.
    what can i do?
    i don't want to stay married i want to move on and start a new life.
    she does not not want to hear from me and threatens me to call the Garda if i get close to her or keep asking for divorce.
    She promised to destroy me any possible way, but not to divorce me.

    Now i am seriously worried to get into trouble with the Garda, if I keep asking.

    I have nothing, no spare money no house nothing she can take from me in that way.
    I will to move away from Ireland to start a new life if have to.
    If we divorce or i move away will she be able to stay and work here? maybe if i can give the proof of this i can get rid of her.

    thanks in advance for all responses.


Comments

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    #2
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    You need to take a deep breath and do nothing for a bit.
    Right now it seems she has you run ragged. Have you spoken to a solicitor?

    That really should be your first step.
    Ideally if things are that fraught you need to protect yourself, from false claims and harassment. One simple way is to immediately stop contacting her - the only form of communication right now should be via your solicitors - otherwise you already see what is coming, a complaint to the gardai that you are stalking her or worse.

    Seriously. Get the names and numbers of some local solicitors and call them on Monday to make an appointment.
    In the meantime, as hard as it is you need to ensure you stop all further contact.


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    #3
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Here's a question. If the OP wants to get a divorce is he bound by Ireland's divorce laws(4 year separation) or the divorce laws of his own country?. Can I get an answer for 2 scenarios.

    Op married in home country moves to Ireland and Op moves to Ireland and marries here.


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    #4
    niceoneted
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭niceoneted


    Why not contact irish immigration and let them know of the situation. They may revoke her visa. And she may ten have to return to her own country.


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    #5
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    stay away from her and dont contact her in my opinion
    Document everything you can remember, contacts, times, reason and response.
    Go to legal advisor, solicitor I think? ask for opinions on who you should see.
    you're not under any time pressure that contacting her will speed things up, so back away from it for a while, she will probably end up contacting you.

    Id suggest not meeting her if she does contact you, or only meet after you have been advised its ok by a professional legal advisor and then only in some public setting.
    By that stage you might be able to have a professional opinion her residency wont be affected by a legal seperation ending in divorce, or be able to convince her she coudl get that on her own merit.

    How long is she here, wheres she from? and how long were you married? did you get married here?
    If not, maybe you can get divorced quicker where you got married?
    she is probably holding out for time here so can apply for permanant residence based on time stayed and marriage to an EU citizen, if thats the case, maybe thats all she wanted? not sure if she'd be able to do that if the marriage wasnt in existence? but maybe its possible, so maybe thats her thinking? its possible she could apply anyway if the marriage is ended by seperation/divorce, but she might get it on her own merit on duration of stay.

    Is the refusal based on some religious opinion possibly or how it might be viewed by her religious peers? or family? is she the same religion as you or is that relevant?

    Presumably there are no kids? you didnt mention any


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    #6
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    meddot11 wrote: »
    Hi all,
    I am an EU citizen living here in Ireland , married to a NON-EU with regular VISA

    Marriage is over - Period -
    We live apart and i want to be free of this marriage now.
    she told me in clear text that she will not give me divorce because she needs the VISA.
    what can i do?
    i don't want to stay married i want to move on and start a new life.
    she does not not want to hear from me and threatens me to call the Garda if i get close to her or keep asking for divorce.
    She promised to destroy me any possible way, but not to divorce me.

    Now i am seriously worried to get into trouble with the Garda, if I keep asking.

    I have nothing, no spare money no house nothing she can take from me in that way.
    I will to move away from Ireland to start a new life if have to.
    If we divorce or i move away will she be able to stay and work here? maybe if i can give the proof of this i can get rid of her.

    thanks in advance for all responses.

    Seek good legal advice. The free movement regulations allow for such a situation. But both of ye need good advice your ex requires the advice of a family solicitor with experience in immigration.


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    #7
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    niceoneted wrote: »
    Why not contact irish immigration and let them know of the situation. They may revoke her visa. And she may ten have to return to her own country.

    Id hold off on this unless advised to, at the least you might be able to hold it over her if she is threatening you with something else, just to keep her honest. If you tip your hand and it doesnt work out, then you lost that advantage.
    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Seek good legal advice. The free movement regulations allow for such a situation. But both of ye need good advice your ex requires the advice of a family solicitor with experience in immigration.

    The Op should seek legal advice, he is here asking for advice only, its not up to him to inform her what she should do, if she has threatened to say stuff that hasnt happened, let her figure out what she needs herself.
    If she has declined to speak to him then how could he tell her anyway.

    OP wants out of the marriage, she isnt cooperating, needs more information.


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    #8
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    cerastes wrote: »
    Id hold off on this unless advised to, at the least you might be able to hold it over her if she is threatening you with something else, just to keep her honest. If you tip your hand and it doesnt work out, then you lost that advantage.



    The Op should seek legal advice, he is here asking for advice only, its not up to him to inform her what she should do, if she has threatened to say stuff that hasnt happened, let her figure out what she needs herself.
    If she has declined to speak to him then how could he tell her anyway.

    OP wants out of the marriage, she isnt cooperating, needs more information.

    A spouse does not have to cooperate to get a divorce in Ireland once the couple are separated for the required time then either spouse can ask the court for a divorce.

    The reason I said what I did is that if both people take legal advice they may both get what the want and it would be legal. There is no need for either spouse to speak to each other as that can be arranged through lawyers.

    BTW it is not a good idea to hold a persons immigration status over their head as part of a family breakup. It could backfire and could cause serious issues for both parties with Justice.

    The OP is best advised as I said getting a solicitor as this is a complex area but in all probability there is a solution that will keep everyone happy.


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    #9
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    A spouse does not have to cooperate to get a divorce in Ireland once the couple are separated for the required time then either spouse can ask the court for a divorce.

    The reason I said what I did is that if both people take legal advice they may both get what the want and it would be legal. There is no need for either spouse to speak to each other as that can be arranged through lawyers.

    BTW it is not a good idea to hold a persons immigration status over their head as part of a family breakup. It could backfire and could cause serious issues for both parties with Justice.

    The OP is best advised as I said getting a solicitor as this is a complex area but in all probability there is a solution that will keep everyone happy.

    I never said that a divorce required the consent of both parties, but it is possible that both parties participate and one party can drag out proceedings uneccesarily with the intent of delaying or causing problems,
    Ive suggested the OP get legal advice and not to bring up the status, but if that person is not here legally then maybe they shouldnt be here as it sounds like they are abusing the system, and seems they are making false threats against the OP, they may be able to suggest cooperation, personally, Id do nothing without legal advice and I doubt a legal advisor would say hold this over someones head.
    Anyway, without more information its not possible to give much more opinion.
    Im interested to hear how it goes, but it could take a while.


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    #10
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    cerastes wrote: »
    I never said that a divorce required the consent of both parties, but it is possible that both parties participate and one party can drag out proceedings uneccesarily with the intent of delaying or causing problems,
    Ive suggested the OP get legal advice and not to bring up the status, but if that person is not here legally then maybe they shouldnt be here as it sounds like they are abusing the system, and seems they are making false threats against the OP, they may be able to suggest cooperation, personally, Id do nothing without legal advice and I doubt a legal advisor would say hold this over someones head.
    Anyway, without more information its not possible to give much more opinion.
    Im interested to hear how it goes, but it could take a while.

    Considering the OP said the spouse was in the country with a regular visa, I think it's safe to assume that the person is currently legal. Also as the OP is a EU citizen then EU law applies that law gives certain protections to divorced non EU spouses in immigration matters.


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    #11
    meddot11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭meddot11


    hi All
    thanks for the initial feedback, here some answers to the questions:

    No Kids.
    As i said, there is nothing to take in that way, bank account is empty and salary is the only income, I live on renting.
    We got married abroad, Ukraine in 2011
    marriage was registered in Europe first in order to come to Europe and then we came to Ireland in 2012 where she needs a different permit because Ireland is a NO-Shengen country. so she go a permit called 4-EU-FAM, its the highest stamp you can get, and it's valid for 5 years (2017).
    I am living in Ireland since 2003, i just left briefly to pursue what i thought was love.

    Of course I am considering the divorce abroad to be faster, Ukraine 30 days. Fact is i cannot get her to the point of considering the option divorce at all, not here not there.

    Now, i can not care less where she lives, i don't want her to have to go back, I brought her here coz i believed in it, so the past is past and i am not in need for revenge.

    Religion is not an issue , marriage was only civil, her Family is happy to get rid of me, me of them, my fam. same!

    Yes i know she is holding on just to gain time and probably be able to apply for Irish Citizenship. but is this really the only way for me to close this topic?
    If divorce takes 4 years here in Ireland, by that time she will have got what she wanted.
    but i had to stay married and be used for this purpose! in the mean time i will be afraid to buy a house or save some money, coz she could be become interested in that too!!!


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    #12
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    meddot11 wrote: »
    hi All
    thanks for the initial feedback, here some answers to the questions:

    No Kids.
    As i said, there is nothing to take in that way, bank account is empty and salary is the only income, I live on renting.
    We got married abroad, Ukraine in 2011
    marriage was registered in Europe first in order to come to Europe and then we came to Ireland in 2012 where she needs a different permit because Ireland is a NO-Shengen country. so she go a permit called 4-EU-FAM, its the highest stamp you can get, and it's valid for 5 years (2017).
    I am living in Ireland since 2003, i just left briefly to pursue what i thought was love.

    Of course I am considering the divorce abroad to be faster, Ukraine 30 days. Fact is i cannot get her to the point of considering the option divorce at all, not here not there.

    Now, i can not care less where she lives, i don't want her to have to go back, I brought her here coz i believed in it, so the past is past and i am not in need for revenge.

    Religion is not an issue , marriage was only civil, her Family is happy to get rid of me, me of them, my fam. same!

    Yes i know she is holding on just to gain time and probably be able to apply for Irish Citizenship. but is this really the only way for me to close this topic?
    If divorce takes 4 years here in Ireland, by that time she will have got what she wanted.
    but i had to stay married and be used for this purpose! in the mean time i will be afraid to buy a house or save some money, coz she could be become interested in that too!!!

    Not legal advice but once under EU rules the couple are married a certain length of time and residing in ireland a certain length of time, (all contained in the regulations) and the marriage is annulled or the parties are divorced then the non EU person can get a EU Fam 4 permission in her own right.

    In fact the way you spouse is going about it she will end up with an immigration mess.


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    #13
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Can you not go back to your own country and get a divorce there? Do you actually need her agreement to divorce in your own country?


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    #14
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Can you not go back to your own country and get a divorce there? Do you actually need her agreement to divorce in your own country?


    Such a divorce may or may or may not be recognised by Ireland, and would require legal advice.


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    #15
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Such a divorce may or may or may not be recognised by Ireland, and would require legal advice.

    Neither of the parties are Irish - right? And I assume the spouse's visa was issued by his 'home' country? The question of Irish recognition of any divorce would only arise if the husband wanted to remarry here??


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    #16
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Neither of the parties are Irish - right? And I assume the spouse's visa was issued by his 'home' country? The question of Irish recognition of any divorce would only arise if the husband wanted to remarry here??

    Considering the OP is living here for years and his spouse clearly wishes to remain then it is safe to assume the OP wishes to remain in Ireland.

    so as I advised the OP would be well served to take his facts to a solicitor who works in immigration and family law and get fact specific advice.


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    #17
    meddot11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭meddot11


    hi all again , thanks for the inputs --
    i think i need to make some order here :)

    there is 2 types of visa on the stake here.
    One is the visa given by my country which is an SHENGEN State, and therefore it gives you freedom of movement within the Shengen Countries. these are all Europe but IRELAND and UK.

    Ireland requires its own VISA - which in my case was given because as EU-Citizen i have the rights to keep my family with me.
    there are several type of them and the Highest available is 4EU-FAM - not even NON-EU spouses of Irish citizen get this one when immigrating to Ireland.

    Now, to all the questions rising if a divorce would be reconsigned here in ROI the answer is YES - If i get divorced in the UKRAINE i will receive my divorce paper which translated will be sent to my Embassy and which i will also bring to my own country and register the divorce. after that my marital status is DIVORCED - Ireland has nothing to say about it.
    The point here got probably lost along the thread, or i might have posted this into the wrong forum

    My initial question was if I get divorced would my wife still be able to stay here in Ireland.
    a positive answer to this one would solve all my issues as she would right away agree to a divorce and i would be free as a bird.

    in second place my alternative and last solution could be If i leave Ireland, which i would not like, but lets assume i leave.
    Would she be able to stay here considering the fact that she was allowed to stay only because of my presence here. I could probably use this as a leverage, at some point,
    which i repeat, is not my aim, i have no need for vendetta, but at least i would feel totally disarmed. :)


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    #18
    roadsmart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 625 ✭✭✭roadsmart


    Instead of listening to a crowd of anonymous people on an Internet forum, both of you should go see a solicitor specialising in immigration and get the correct answer once and for all.


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    #19
    Taltos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Mod Note:

    OP - per our charter we cannot give you legal advice and that is what you are fast approaching here.
    If this thread continues in that direction we won't have any choice here but to close it.


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    #20
    meddot11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭meddot11


    please close this thread

    thank you


This discussion has been closed.
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