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Great Pacific Garbage Patch

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  • 02-04-2012 11:40am
    #1
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch

    Humanity is so messed up. I've heard this thrash island is multiples the size of Texas. And it is constantly growing since there is no profit motive in cleaning it up. :mad:

    Has anyone seen this on Google Earth?

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."

    Tagged:


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    #2
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,642 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    There was a Marine Biologist on the radio a few weeks back who said that there is now 6 times as much plastic rubbish in the Oceans by weigh as there is all the Zoo and phyto plankton put together ie. fishfood. He also says they have only now started to test common types of sea-food consumed by humans for contamination - the intitial findings in some areas are worrying to say the least:(


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    #3
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Lester Russel Brown: "Our global civilization today is on an economic path that is environmentally unsustainable, a path that is leading us toward economic decline and eventual collapse."

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #4
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,642 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Worztron wrote: »
    Lester Russel Brown: "Our global civilization today is on an economic path that is environmentally unsustainable, a path that is leading us toward economic decline and eventual collapse."

    Hard to argue with that - the vast majority of the public despite having access to a mountain of info now via the web, still appear to be totally in the dark about what is going on around the world in this respect. Of course this suits the poltical and corporate establishment that sit at the top of this dodgy pyramid and who control most the mainstream media. But like the despots that were overthrown during the Arab spring, they can only keep a lid on things for so long as we head down this ruinious path. Already many African countries are seeing wars over shrinking natural resources like water and grazing land while tension in the South China Sea are starting to come to the surface over oil, gas and fishing rights which China wants for itself. The same thing is brewing over the head waters of major rivers that supply water to billions of people in Pakistan, India, Vietnam Bagladesh etc. with plans by China and others to dam many Tibetian rivers as their own water shortages become ever more severe. I could go through similiar tensions over World fisheries etc, but I think people get the picture.


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    #5
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    But like the despots that were overthrown during the Arab spring, they can only keep a lid on things for so long...
    What exactly is a lid being kept on? You're suggesting that the average person is unaware of man's impact on the planet? They may not be aware of the full impact, but I think they'll have a pretty good idea that all is not quite right.


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    #6
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Already many African countries are seeing wars over shrinking natural resources like water
    ...
    with plans by China and others to dam many Tibetian rivers as their own water shortages become ever more severe.
    ...
    I could go through similiar tensions over World fisheries etc, but I think people get the picture.
    Africa is exporting water. In the sense that rather than irrigate the middle east and India to produce food, they are growing it in Africa and using their water.

    China have a large scheme to divert water to farmers in the North who then send the food back South. Complete madness as no nett economic benefit.

    Fisheries, - we have the Atlantic Dawn. It catches the same amount of fish as something like 80,000 African fishermen.


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    #7
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What exactly is a lid being kept on? You're suggesting that the average person is unaware of man's impact on the planet? They may not be aware of the full impact, but I think they'll have a pretty good idea that all is not quite right.

    Beg to differ there djpbarry.

    Most people don't really know the true extent of the hemorrhage of biodiversity that is occurring the world over right now (not to mention all the other massive environmental problems). The simple reason they don't know is that they don't see it as relevant to themselves; as Birdnuts says, the information is all there and easily accessed. The proof of this is that while things continue to worsen at an accelerated rate, only a very small minority of the planet's population voices any opposition.

    Birdnuts hits the nail on the head when he says that this is in the interests of those who are profiteering from the destruction of the natural world - i.e. the big corporations and their mates in the the political establishment. Their interests lie solely in keeping the world on the path of trying to maintain never-ending growth in the face of finite (and fast dwindling) resources.

    Unfortunately the collective human brain doesn't seem to be hardwired in such a way as to be able to look much beyond immediate gain (which is then mostly spent on complete junk), even if that comes at the expense of the ultimate survival of this incredible planet with all its diversity.


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    #8
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What exactly is a lid being kept on? You're suggesting that the average person is unaware of man's impact on the planet? They may not be aware of the full impact, but I think they'll have a pretty good idea that all is not quite right.

    Beg to differ there djpbarry.

    Most people don't know about the hemorrhage of biodiversity that is occurring the world over right now (not to mention all the other massive environmental problems), and don't see it as relevant to themselves. If they did, things wouldn't be continuing to worsen at an accelerated rate with only a small minority of the planet's population voicing opposition.

    Birdnuts hits the nail on the head when he says that this is in the interests of those who are profiteering from the destruction of the natural world - i.e. the big corporations and their mates in the the political establishment. Their interests lie solely in keeping the world on the path of trying to maintain continual growth in the face of finite (and fast dwindling) resources.

    Unfortunately the collective human brain doesn't seem to be hardwired in such a way as to be able to look much beyond immediate gain (which is then mostly spent on complete junk), even if that comes at the expense of the survival of this incredible planet.


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    #9
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Most people don't know about the hemorrhage of biodiversity that is occurring the world over right now...
    They might not be able to quantify the scale of it, but I think most people are familiar with, for example, the destruction of rainforests.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Birdnuts hits the nail on the head when he says that this is in the interests of those who are profiteering from the destruction of the natural world - i.e. the big corporations and their mates in the the political establishment.
    Right, and who buys stuff from the “big corporations”?


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    #10
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    djpbarry wrote: »
    They might not be able to quantify the scale of it, but I think most people are familiar with, for example, the destruction of rainforests.

    So why are so few members of the species that is causing this devastation bothered to do anything about it? They may be familiar with the concept in an abstract way, in the same way as we might be familiar with the existence of Pluto, but there's an enormous gulf between that and caring enough to a) inform yourself about it, and b) try to do something concrete to change it.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    Right, and who buys stuff from the “big corporations”?

    Do we have a choice who we buy our cars, computers etc from? Yes we do, in the sense that we can buy them from tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee company. Unless we choose to opt out of society as it presently stands altogether we need these things. But we need them to be made in a sustainable way, not purposely designed to break down irreparably after 5 years so that we have to go and buy another one (as the computer I'm presently writing this on has - seemingly that's their average lifespan). And we need funds to be channeled into renewable alternatives to fossil fuels to power them.


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    #11
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    So why are so few members of the species that are causing this devastation bothered to do anything about it?
    Because they don’t care? Or at least they don’t care enough to change their habits.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Do we have a choice who we buy our cars, computers etc from? Yes we do, in the sense that we can buy them from tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee company.
    There is always a least worst option. Even if the choices on offer are not ideal, you can still opt for the one with the lowest environmental impact.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Unless we choose to opt out of society as it presently stands altogether we need these things.
    I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that everyone needs a car, but anyway, you’re trying to argue that people are faced with a binary choice between living in the 21st century or living a prehistoric existence. The reality is that every individual is faced with a myriad of choices with regard to how they live their lives.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    But we need them to be made in a sustainable way, not purposely designed to break down irreparably after 5 years (as the computer I'm presently writing this on has) so that we have to go and buy another one.
    Consumer electronics are designed with short life spans in mind because a lot of people upgrade after relatively short periods of time – look how often people buy new phones for example. If there was a demand for durable, long-lasting products (and in some cases there is), somebody will be providing them (and I’m sure somebody is).

    At the end of the day, you’re trying to blame companies for producing products that consumers want. But these products would not be produced if nobody was buying them.


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    #12
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Because they don’t care? Or at least they don’t care enough to change their habits.

    So we're in agreement then
    djpbarry wrote: »
    There is always a least worst option. Even if the choices on offer are not ideal, you can still opt for the one with the lowest environmental impact.

    Still in agreement, in principal, though I think unless you're rich your options may often be very limited
    djpbarry wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that everyone needs a car

    Fair comment, many people do not. It depends on where you live (I'm in the country)
    djpbarry wrote: »
    you’re trying to argue that people are faced with a binary choice between living in the 21st century or living a prehistoric existence.

    Not sure where you got that idea from? :confused:

    Ironically, prehistoric man was already engaged in wiping out other species from the start... think mammoths, sabre toothed tigers etc... I think it's clear we need to relate to our planet in another way.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    If there was a demand for durable, long-lasting products (and in some cases there is), somebody will be providing them (and I’m sure somebody is). At the end of the day, you’re trying to blame companies for producing products that consumers want. But these products would not be produced if nobody was buying them.

    Hmmm, I'm sure there are others like me who don't give a monkey's about constant upgrades, yet I'm not aware of any company making computers to last... though I wouldn't claim to be an expert.


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    #13
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Still in agreement, in principal, though I think unless you're rich your options may often be very limited
    Come on - you don't have to be rich to own a computer and there are plenty of affordable options out there.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    Hmmm, I'm sure there are others like me who don't give a monkey's about constant upgrades...
    Sure - I'm not terribly concerned with such things myself. However, I know a lot of people who are obsessed with Apple products, for example - whatever the latest i-thingy is is a popular topic of conversation among my work colleagues.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    ...yet I'm not aware of any company making computers to last... though I wouldn't claim to be an expert.
    Well lets just take the example of operating systems. A lot of Windows releases have been pants, plagued with bugs. But that's because it's designed to be cheap, not perfect. Hence the constant prompts you receive to update your software and install service packs. Furthermore, modern Windows products often contain far, far more features than the average user needs.

    However, freely-available alternatives exist, Ubuntu being one of the most popular at present.


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    #14
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Come on - you don't have to be rich to own a computer and there are plenty of affordable options out there.

    I had larger more costly investments in mind, such as hybrid or electric cars, domestic wind turbines and so on, more than computers. As regards the latter, unless you're a buff, making head or tail of alternative options is going to be far from easy.


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    #15
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    I had larger more costly investments in mind, such as hybrid or electric cars...
    Why does it have to be a hybrid or electric? Just buy the most efficient car you can that will do the job.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    ...domestic wind turbines...
    Again, that's going to extremes - most people are not in a position to install a wind turbine. However, most people are in a position to either cut back on their power usage or increase the energy efficiency of their home, for example.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    ...and so on, more than computers.
    The same principle applies regardless of whether we're talking about cars or pencil sharpeners.
    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    As regards the latter, unless you're a buff, making head or tail of alternative options is going to be far from easy.
    But the point is there are options. Lots of them.


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    #16
    Eoghan Barra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    I'm afraid that the kind of choices you describe, while positive of course, are really only tinkering at the edges of the problem.

    Unless there are some very radical shifts in the way human society and the global economy operate, our planet will continue to degenerate at a rapid pace, squandering millions of years of evolution, beauty and wonder in a great bonfire of greed and stupidity.

    At which point I must bow out of this discussion. Good night.


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    #17
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    djpbarry wrote: »
    A lot of Windows releases have been pants, plagued with bugs. But that's because it's designed to be cheap, not perfect.
    OSX upgrade costs €30

    I would not consider windows cheap especially when you consider the volumes of scale.

    can someone post links to bacteria that eat garbage ?


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    #18
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Increased consumption in a capitalists economy equals economic growth but death to the environment.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #19
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Worztron wrote: »
    Increased consumption in a capitalists economy equals economic growth but death to the environment.
    No necessarily - there's nothing wrong with consumption per se. It's rampant consumption that's the problem.


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    #20
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    Things are getting worse as well not in least because of the Japanese Tsunmai a massive inter-generational pollution event.

    As well as the obvious concern is that this micro-material could be ingested by marine organisms, Another unexpected, consequence. Is that the plastic make it easier for the marine insect Halobates sericeus to lay its eggs out over the ocean. These "sea skaters" or "water striders" - relatives of pond water skaters - need a platform for the task.
    Normally, this might be seabird feathers, tar lumps or even pieces of pumice rock. But it is clear from the trawl results that H. sericeus has been greatly aided by the numerous plastic surfaces now available to it in the Pacific.The team found a strong association between the presence of Halobates and the micro-plastic in a way that was just not evident in the data from 40 years ago. Ms Goldstein explained: "We thought there might be fewer Halobates if there's more plastic - that there might be some sort of toxic effect. But, actually, we found the opposite. In the areas that had the most plastic, we found the most Halobates.
    "So, they're obviously congregating around this plastic, laying their eggs on it, and hatching out from it. For Halobates, all this plastic has worked out well for them."
    ...
    "So, what plastic has done is add hundreds of millions of hard surfaces to the Pacific Ocean. That's quite a profound change."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17991993


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    #21
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    Worztron wrote: »
    Increased consumption in a capitalists economy equals economic growth but death to the environment.

    Some truth in that
    but also communist/socialist economies have been far far worse
    than a free society generally speaking.

    Whats needed is a third way.

    A free market, free enterprise, free society in which environmental sustainablity as THE core prinicpal upon which the society is founded.


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    #22
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #23
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    Eoghan Barra wrote: »
    So why are so few members of the species that is causing this devastation bothered to do anything about it? They may be familiar with the concept in an abstract way, in the same way as we might be familiar with the existence of Pluto, but there's an enormous gulf between that and caring enough to a) inform yourself about it, and b) try to do something concrete to change it.

    Conscientious consumerism can only go so far I think.

    There is no way everybody will get environmentally conscious overnight, and that is how quickly it needs to happen.
    Just do a thought experiment on what you personally would have to do to have a completely organic existence, No plastic, No petrochemicals, No oil based inputs into your food and water supply.....It's too hard. We are doomed as a species, and I honestly don't believe it can be turned around. I know I feel like a selfish prikc for pointing it out, but I have influence with a very small bunch of people ( a family sized unit) whom I could convince of the impending demise of the human race, it's not going to change the outcome, and it's not going to allow me to create a safe haven for my offspring, so in short there is no point?

    There are 7 (i think at last count) Billion people on this planet, most want a house, and a car and a 1st world lifestyle, and most are breaking their backs trying to get it, and in doing so are contributing to the demand for produce from the same massive corporations that are blasting our environment with non-degradable completely toxic compounds that are slowly working their way into our food chain. We've known about the problem since DDT, but it makes no difference.

    The only definite solutions are straight from the mouth of Blackadder's wise old woman.:(


    Enjoy the ride, write a book about it if your conscience is troubled, make choices that ease your conscience, but don't get frustrated or upset because this planet is full of selfish ignorami that can't (or won't) see the oncoming train wreck that is as plain as the noses on their faces.

    Nobody will do anything unless it is directly impacting them. By which time it is impacting everyone, by which time it is too late.

    C'est la vie.


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    #24
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron




    Paul Franklin Watson: "If the oceans die, we die. We cannot live on this planet with a dead ocean."

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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    #25
    Worztron
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Worth watching: Plastic Paradise: The Great Pacific Garbage Patch (2013)

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



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