Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Infoanon · 16-04-2014 7:05pm

MS.ing wrote: »

exactly, they should forget the cost cutting level the playing field rubbish, its just marketing rubbish and let people throw whatever money they want at the 'sport' to 'win'

Go down that route and you will be down to 4 teams very quickly, control over costs and a more equitable splitting of the revenue is needed.

Going Strong · 16-04-2014 9:02pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Go down that route and you will be down to 4 teams very quickly, control over costs and a more equitable splitting of the revenue is needed.

Teams seem to be grand with saving money in other ways mind.

Drivers threaten to strike over unpaid wages

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/drivers-threaten-to-strike-over-unpaid-wages/

SamAK · 16-04-2014 9:07pm

Going Strong wrote: »

Teams seem to be grand with saving money in other ways mind.

Drivers threaten to strike over unpaid wages

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/drivers-threaten-to-strike-over-unpaid-wages/

The magazine claims that Romain Grosjean, Nico Hulkenberg, Adrian Sutil and Kamui Kobayashi are all also waiting on overdue payments.

But....I thought Kobayashi was racing for free?

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140122/f1/140129935

PopePalpatine · 16-04-2014 9:13pm

The Hulk can't catch a break, can he?

Jordan 199 · 16-04-2014 11:39pm

SamAK wrote: »

But....I thought Kobayashi was racing for free?

I suspect Kobayashi's case is with Sauber.

MS.ing · 17-04-2014 4:44am

Infoanon wrote: »

Go down that route and you will be down to 4 teams very quickly, control over costs and a more equitable splitting of the revenue is needed.

so what, so they will have 4 teams left, with the rest in a new formula and where the four teams can compete with eachother and the rest of teams in a division lower than that so teams get to compete in a more fair way, sort of like what a few teams threatened a few years ago, a breakaway series!

let them go and make 3 divisions of F1, the top teams, the midfield, and the pack fodder, each with their own division, with teams moving up and down like football leagues and everyone able to compete with each other much more closely in their current division, now THAT will be entertaining to watch! :cool:

Going Strong · 17-04-2014 8:20am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I suspect Kobayashi's case is with Sauber.

Sauber (and Lotus) are alleged to be avoiding paying their suppliers for quite some time now. Nothing concrete has come out just repeated claims and repeated denials by the team(s).

Donnelly117 · 17-04-2014 8:58am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I suspect Kobayashi's case is with Sauber.

I suspect the Hulks case is with Sauber to from last year too? I cant see it being a FI issue

ZiabR · 17-04-2014 9:23am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I suspect Kobayashi's case is with Sauber.

This is how I see it also. Hulks issue is with Sauber also.

Zcott · 17-04-2014 10:08am

MS.ing wrote: »

so what, so they will have 4 teams left, with the rest in a new formula and where the four teams can compete with eachother and the rest of teams in a division lower than that so teams get to compete in a more fair way, sort of like what a few teams threatened a few years ago, a breakaway series!

let them go and make 3 divisions of F1, the top teams, the midfield, and the pack fodder, each with their own division, with teams moving up and down like football leagues and everyone able to compete with each other much more closely in their current division, now THAT will be entertaining to watch! :cool:

I'm not sure how well this would work in Motorsport. In football with hundreds of matches being played at different times it works but in Motorsport all the cars are on track at once, each of them with an equal chance of winning (ok, so in real life it's not actually like that). I think it complicates things needlessly, and when some of the top teams want cost cutting too it's not a good idea to let them get beaten by those who can spend.

cadaliac · 17-04-2014 10:44am

MS.ing wrote: »

so what, so they will have 4 teams left, with the rest in a new formula and where the four teams can compete with eachother and the rest of teams in a division lower than that so teams get to compete in a more fair way, sort of like what a few teams threatened a few years ago, a breakaway series!

let them go and make 3 divisions of F1, the top teams, the midfield, and the pack fodder, each with their own division, with teams moving up and down like football leagues and everyone able to compete with each other much more closely in their current division, now THAT will be entertaining to watch! :cool:

No. Only top tier would be watched
All mid and lower teams would be watched by friends and family only. It just would not work.

Going Strong · 17-04-2014 10:53am

cadaliac wrote: »

No. Only top tier would be watched
All mid and lower teams would be watched by friends and family only. It just would not work.

That's fairly obvious if you attend a Grand Prix. Anything other than F1 gets very little attention from the crowds. There's usually a mass exodus between say, the F1 qualifying finishing and the GP2 race starting.

MS.ing · 18-04-2014 6:42am

Zcott wrote: »

I'm not sure how well this would work in Motorsport. In football with hundreds of matches being played at different times it works but in Motorsport all the cars are on track at once, each of them with an equal chance of winning (ok, so in real life it's not actually like that). I think it complicates things needlessly, and when some of the top teams want cost cutting too it's not a good idea to let them get beaten by those who can spend.

cadaliac wrote: »

No. Only top tier would be watched
All mid and lower teams would be watched by friends and family only. It just would not work.

actually I take my post back, the only difference with what I was saying would be ideal (each new series with their own podiums and level competition) and what I knew F1 to be (different tiers of top middle and bottom, with teams never really progressing to the top from bottom) were basically the same except a few different sets of podiums. I blame the 4am posting

MS.ing · 18-04-2014 6:48am

Going Strong wrote: »

That's fairly obvious if you attend a Grand Prix. Anything other than F1 gets very little attention from the crowds. There's usually a mass exodus between say, the F1 qualifying finishing and the GP2 race starting.

thats more to do with having a break between watching stuff go round a track all day Id say, in other words people would still leave even if they were interested in everything and pick what they didnt want to miss and base everything around that

ZiabR · 18-04-2014 10:15am

I find myself getting a decent spot before even the Porsche race starts so I am ready for GP2 and F1. I enjoy the other races, adds to the whole event i think.

cadaliac · 18-04-2014 10:48am

Budapest 2003 -

Porsche race -

I was wandering around the back of the Grandstand when the F1 cars fired into life and the echo resonated around the dust bowl.

Within seconds the crowds made their was back to the near empty seats in the uncovered and covered stands.
I'd say within 2 minutes all sold seats were filled.

Its a natural phenomenon - like people at the bar in Croke Park on All Ireland day.
You will always sell out the seats for the main event

MS.ing · 18-04-2014 11:40am

cadaliac wrote: »

Budapest 2003 -

Porsche race -

I was wandering around the back of the Grandstand when the F1 cars fired into life and the echo resonated around the dust bowl.

Within seconds the crowds made their was back to the near empty seats in the uncovered and covered stands.
I'd say within 2 minutes all sold seats were filled.

Its a natural phenomenon - like people at the bar in Croke Park on All Ireland day.
You will always sell out the seats for the main event

fast forward to 2014:

"were were you u missed the start!!"

"what!!!!!!! :eek: :mad: :mad: ...ah ffs I heard your man starting the lawnmower in the field next door but nothing about.....ah fook, was that it :rolleyes: "

_rebelkid · 18-04-2014 11:45am

Senna Week on Sky Sports F1:

Blf425nCAAA_1S3.png:large

_rebelkid · 18-04-2014 12:34pm

Power Unit Comparison:

Blue is Turbo Compressor, red is Turbo Turbine, MGU-K and MGU-H are labelled.

From formula1.com:

Renault:
If we compare the component installations on Renault's and Mercedes' power units, it is easy to see how different their concepts are. One of the fundamental requirements of a turbocharged engine is to reduce the temperature of the charge air (the blue part of the turbo) - the cooler this charge air is, the more power the engine will produce. Unlike Mercedes, Renault have the hot side of the turbo (shown in red) bolted directly to the cold side (in blue). There is heat insulation between them, but there will inevitably still be a lot of heat transfer between the two parts, meaning that a larger intercooler and more airflow will have to be used to reduce the charge air temperature. Mounted to the cold side of the turbo is the MGU-H, which will drive or be driven by the turbo through a central shaft. With this packaging both turbo elements will be driven simultaneously (whereas Mercedes' solution offers the possibility of driving the two elements independently).

Mercedes:
If we compare the component installations on Mercedes' and Renault's power units, it is easy to see how different their concepts are. One of the fundamental requirements of a turbocharged engine is to reduce the temperature of the charge air (the blue part of the turbo) - the cooler this charge air is, the more power the engine will produce. Unlike Renault, Mercedes have separated the hot side of the turbo (in red) from the cold side (in blue) and have the MGU-H mounted in the 'V' of the engine between the two parts of the turbo. This has two main advantages: firstly, the heat transfer between the two parts of the turbo is minimised, so less cooling is required to keep the charge air temperature down (or if the same cooling capacity is used, the charge air temperature will be lower, giving more power to the rear wheels). Secondly, having the MGU-H mounted between the two sides of the turbo could allow Mercedes to have either or both sides working through one-way clutches, making the complete unit more efficient. Basically the exhaust gases coming out of the engine on the hot side of the turbo only ever have to drive the cold side of the turbo and or the MGU-H, creating electrical power from this component and feeding it directly to the MGU-K. The MGU-H only ever has to drive the cold side of the turbo, increasing the charge air pressure, thus reducing turbo lag and increasing power. The potential advantages of the Mercedes concept could be significant over the course of the season, especially as retro fitting a similar solution will be very difficult for the other power unit manufacturers.

Top Dog · 18-04-2014 12:59pm

Is it just me or does the exhaust manifold on the Renault engine look seriously convoluted?

MS.ing · 18-04-2014 1:10pm

Im amazed we know how its all done and so soon, one thing engineers involved to know (including those on the other side of the industrial espionage) about the workings, another thing entirely for the public (us) to know!

If I was Merc Id have a contract out on whoever let the cat out of the bag.

when I heard about the method though there was a "well duh course youd seperate the hot and cold parts of the turbo!" heinsight a wonderfull thing though spose. the lower end teams though they will be the ones who will gain most from this wont they?

_rebelkid · 18-04-2014 1:40pm

MS.ing wrote: »

Im amazed we know how its all done and so soon, one thing engineers involved to know (including those on the other side of the industrial espionage) about the workings, another thing entirely for the public (us) to know!

If I was Merc Id have a contract out on whoever let the cat out of the bag.

when I heard about the method though there was a "well duh course youd seperate the hot and cold parts of the turbo!" heinsight a wonderfull thing though spose. the lower end teams though they will be the ones who will gain most from this wont they?

It's not that the public figured it out (although technical commentators wrote about separating the Turbo in the off-season in 2013), but rather the teams had to disclose it to the FIA and FOM way back in the design certification. It was known in testing that Mercedes HAD separated the turbo, and Renault would have known it.

The lower teams running Mercedes engines already have the split turbo, and have done since they were given the engines from Mercedes. SO any gain from it is already there.

_rebelkid · 18-04-2014 1:41pm

Top Dog wrote: »

Is it just me or does the exhaust manifold on the Renault engine look seriously convoluted?

Renault do like single piping the cylinders. It's basically the manifold from the V8 with one pipe lopped off...

_rebelkid · 19-04-2014 6:10am

So Red Bull's own measurement said they were above the fuel flow limit. How the hell did they think they'd be able to win the appeal with that in their data?

From the full FIA decision:

35. The FIA then adds that the Apellant's own estimation of its car No. 3's FFR in Melbourne also showed that the car exceeded the FFL during the Australian Grand Prix.

19-04-2014 7:37am

_rebelkid wrote: »

So Red Bull's own measurement said they were above the fuel flow limit. How the hell did they think they'd be able to win the appeal with that in their data?

_rebelkid · 19-04-2014 7:46am

The Irony hurts...

BlkGVtYIQAEAc5O.jpg:large

19-04-2014 7:57am

_rebelkid wrote: »

The Irony hurts...

I can't help but feel that should be a pic of Charles Manson wearing a tshirt with Che Guevara wearing a tshirt with Jesus on it.

Or something.

ScumLord · 19-04-2014 11:46am

_rebelkid wrote: »

The Irony hurts...

While he's taking that picture he can't be on the road. It is said for every hour Maldonado is kept off the road 4 lives are saved on roads around the road.

_rebelkid · 19-04-2014 12:08pm

McLaren to take Formula 1 rival Red Bull to court over Dan Fallows

McLaren is planning to take Formula 1 rival Red Bull to court in its dispute with the team over head of aero Dan Fallows, AUTOSPORT can reveal.

The Woking-based team insists it has a legally binding contract with Fallows, but Red Bull announced last week that he was returning to its fold rather than joining McLaren.

ScumLord · 19-04-2014 1:15pm

_rebelkid wrote: »

McLaren to take Formula 1 rival Red Bull to court over Dan Fallows

Shouldn't they be sueing Dan? They had a contract with him not red bull.

ZiabR · 19-04-2014 10:35pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Shouldn't they be sueing Dan? They had a contract with him not red bull.

Agreed, seems any amount of teams are waiting for their chance to take Red Bull to court. F1 is becoming so political, I know it always has been but it is becoming a joke.

Jordan 199 · 20-04-2014 11:22pm

Article about the Mercedes W05 steering wheel.

smellslikeshoes · 23-04-2014 12:59am

Jordan 199 · 24-04-2014 2:15am

McLaren confident over victory chances.

They will have to do serious work on this years car if they want to win races.

GarIT · 24-04-2014 2:28am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

McLaren confident over victory chances.

They will have to do serious work on this years car if they want to win races.

In the article they basically say they lack downforce but are fast, which translates to the car is useless but it has a Mercedes engine.

ZiabR · 24-04-2014 12:24pm

GarIT wrote: »

In the article they basically say they lack downforce but are fast, which translates to the car is useless but it has a Mercedes engine.

And to think they did look stong in testing. Bet they cant wait to get their new Red Bull aero guys to work.

Gillespy · 24-04-2014 12:57pm

Their move to the x rated nose hasn't worked. Honda will want to hit the ground running if they don't want to be bringing up the rear next year if they're no where now with Merc power.

mickdw · 24-04-2014 1:03pm

Gillespy wrote: »

Their move to the x rated nose hasn't worked. Honda will want to hit the ground running if they don't want to be bringing up the rear next year if they're no where now with Merc power.

I don't think they are as far away as it looks in terms of performance. I think they may well be strong in a couple of months.
By all accounts, the car is a good base and is adaptable.
The high nose is a disgrace though.

Zcott · 24-04-2014 1:25pm

Hopefully getting back to Europe will help McLaren develop their car quicker than the likes of Sauber and Force India, who they really shouldn't be racing.

ZiabR · 24-04-2014 4:39pm

Zcott wrote: »

Hopefully getting back to Europe will help McLaren develop their car quicker than the likes of Sauber and Force India, who they really shouldn't be racing.

But they are not racing Sauber or FI. Sauber has a worse car than McLaren and FI have a better car than McLaren, at least at the moment. McLaren are fighting with the likes of Torro Rosso at the moment. I to hope McLaren can get the development of the car moving in the right direction.

mickdw · 24-04-2014 4:51pm

Of course they are racing FI. Maybe not in the last race or 2 but I would bet good money that McLaren will finish the season ahead of FI and Williams.

Myrddin · 24-04-2014 5:39pm

I wonder if Button will be offered a McLaren seat in 2015...

smellslikeshoes · 24-04-2014 5:48pm

mickdw wrote: »

Of course they are racing FI. Maybe not in the last race or 2 but I would bet good money that McLaren will finish the season ahead of FI and Williams.

I'm not so sure, FI made a seriously good car last year and if it wasn't for the tire changes and DiResta's ****ty luck in the first half of the season I think they could have beaten Mclaren. This year they have a much stronger driver lineup and an even quicker car. Mclaren's Australia result is making them look much closer to FI than they actually are, right now they are the 7th fastest team.

24-04-2014 6:26pm

mickdw wrote: »

By all accounts, the car is a good base and is adaptable.

That's what they've said since the start, doesn't seem to have happened yet though.

Mike Litoris · 24-04-2014 9:14pm

New Sebastian Vettle t-shirt

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2014 1:40am

GarIT wrote: »

In the article they basically say they lack downforce but are fast, which translates to the car is useless but it has a Mercedes engine.

Right on mister

Jordan 199 · 25-04-2014 1:44pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsOQWbJZ9mY

SnowDrifts · 25-04-2014 2:00pm

^^ Think they need to bring the top RPM down to under 12k

MS.ing · 25-04-2014 4:01pm

whats going on with the gear changes, it drops from 5th to 1st in a couple tenths of a second (which is not humanly possible) referring to one minute in btw

Zcott · 26-04-2014 12:13am

MS.ing wrote: »

whats going on with the gear changes, it drops from 5th to 1st in a couple tenths of a second (which is not humanly possible) referring to one minute in btw

I think it's more an example of what happens rather than what actually happens on a lap.

Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

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