Repossessions

Scortho · 01-03-2013 11:50am

lima wrote: »

So for the e375 gaff in Ranelagh (and listen now people) - it would be about 40k over my top budget for a property, and even if I was offered a larger mortgage to procure it, I would not take it, as I have to consider the fact that if I lost my job I wouldn't be able to pay it off, and would therefore go into mortgage arrears.

See what I did there? That's called prudence.

Regarding the other gaff, that's a fixer-upper, something I'm also looking into!

I know which is why im showing you that 350 will buy jack **** in d6. Demand is outstripping supply at the moment in these places and some houses are selling at or above asking.
Other parts of dublin are still correcting.

Zamboni · 01-03-2013 12:01pm

lima wrote: »

At last things seem to be moving forward and the stupid people of Ireland who thought that they lived in the best country in the world and that they were savvy investors will have the houses they live in (not own) taken from them. The families in this situation will have to rent (big deal hey).

I will then be in a position to buy myself a cheap ass family house

I'm delighted that it appears the wheels of capitalism will turn again and I am a strong advocate of personal responsibility but why do you delight in mocking folks and being smug?
It's not necessary.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 12:12pm

cookie1977 wrote: »

And where were you during the boom. Why didn't you warn us? It's all your fault now. If only we'd been warned

There were loads of warnings from people and organisations that we were in a bubble. People did not listen.

gaius c · 01-03-2013 12:32pm

40% of buyers in 2007 were BTL.
Let's start with those arrears first.

A fair few of the folk screaming about mortgage writedowns will be exposed as Brendan Kelly-types and as for the media personalities expressing opinions on the matter, perhaps they need to disclose their own property interests first.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 1:23pm

gaius c wrote: »

40% of buyers in 2007 were BTL.
Let's start with those arrears first.

A fair few of the folk screaming about mortgage writedowns will be exposed as Brendan Kelly-types and as for the media personalities expressing opinions on the matter, perhaps they need to disclose their own property interests first.

I tend to wonder how exposed - for example - Pat Kenny's children are to negative equity.

gaius c · 01-03-2013 1:27pm

It's common knowledge that the late Gerry Ryan was in serious trouble re property investments.

The problem I have with it is that public service broadcasters should be disclosing their interests when speaking on such an emotive issue.

Scortho · 01-03-2013 1:41pm

gaius c wrote: »

40% of buyers in 2007 were BTL.
Let's start with those arrears first.

A fair few of the folk screaming about mortgage writedowns will be exposed as Brendan Kelly-types and as for the media personalities expressing opinions on the matter, perhaps they need to disclose their own property interests first.

One of My parents btls is in neg eq. Doesn't mean they're in arrears.

Very few btls were family houses. Most were 1-2 bed bed apartments. Repossessions of 2 bed apartments in city centre will have a small effect on a 3 bed red brick in walk in condition in d6 that's in short supply. It will have a greater effect on the price of other btls provided the bank have a firesale. However they could also package them into a portfolio and sell them onto a fund avoiding the need for a firesale.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 2:15pm

Scortho wrote: »

One of My parents btls is in neg eq. Doesn't mean they're in arrears.

Very few btls were family houses. Most were 1-2 bed bed apartments. Repossessions of 2 bed apartments in city centre will have a small effect on a 3 bed red brick in walk in condition in d6 that's in short supply. It will have a greater effect on the price of other btls provided the bank have a firesale. However they could also package them into a portfolio and sell them onto a fund avoiding the need for a firesale.

It could quite an effect if the owners of the nicer houses have to sell up to settle their debts when they default on their BTLs.

cookie1977 · 01-03-2013 2:18pm

Poor Standard of Mahd wrote: »

It could quite an effect if the owners of the nicer houses have to sell up to settle their debts when they default on their BTLs.

The family homes are still fairly well protected under the law and judges are still adhering to protecting the PDH.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 2:21pm

cookie1977 wrote: »

The family homes are still fairly well protected under the law and judges are still adhering to protecting the PDH.

So wealthy gamblers get to hold onto their trophy homes while dumping their losses on the taxpayer? Sinn Fein aren't going to like that...

cookie1977 · 01-03-2013 2:24pm

Poor Standard of Mahd wrote: »

So wealthy gamblers get to hold onto their trophy homes while dumping their losses on the taxpayer? Sinn Fein aren't going to like that...

Like a lot of this emotive conversation, that's a little too simplistic a view.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 2:30pm

cookie1977 wrote: »

Like a lot of this emotive conversation, that's a little too simplistic a view.

Simplistic, but accurate. Where is the justice in allowing people whose BTL investments have gone bust retain expensive 'family' homes (if you want to talk emotive, 'family home' is a good place to start).

Everyone rails about bailing out bondholders - why are these investors/gamblers any different? Especially when you consider the role they played in driving up the price of 'family homes' for first time buyers during the bubble.

They should pay their debts or go bankrupt.

Ritchi · 01-03-2013 4:17pm

The truth is that 99% of people who don't own a home, and didn't buy one in the boom, didn't because they couldn't afford to(or are too young to have, but essentially the same thing), not because they made a conscious decision to wait for the bubble to burst.

I'm sure there's a few exceptions to that though, but very few.

Scortho · 01-03-2013 4:28pm

Poor Standard of Mahd wrote: »

Simplistic, but accurate. Where is the justice in allowing people whose BTL investments have gone bust retain expensive 'family' homes (if you want to talk emotive, 'family home' is a good place to start).

Everyone rails about bailing out bondholders - why are these investors/gamblers any different? Especially when you consider the role they played in driving up the price of 'family homes' for first time buyers during the bubble.

They should pay their debts or go bankrupt.

It is the justice in allowing someone keep any asset that they have debts secured against which they then default on.
If you go down the line of no repossessions of family homes, the btl owners would also have a family home.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 4:29pm

Ritchi wrote: »

The truth is that 99% of people who don't own a home, and didn't buy one in the boom, didn't because they couldn't afford to(or are too young to have, but essentially the same thing), not because they made a conscious decision to wait for the bubble to burst.

That's not the truth, that's an unfounded assertion.

Ritchi wrote: »

I'm sure there's a few exceptions to that though, but very few.

Most of my peers who did not buy did so because they thought prices were nuts. Those who did not buy because they couldn't get credit were very few.

Ritchi · 01-03-2013 4:33pm

Poor Standard of Mahd wrote: »

That's not the truth, that's an unfounded assertion.

Most of my peers who did not buy did so because they thought prices were nuts. Those who did not buy because they couldn't get credit were very few.

I didn't say they couldn't get credit, I said they couldn't afford the prices.

I couldn't, and I assumed I never would. I didn't base my decision not to buy on the assumption that prices would fall, rather I just assumed I could never buy. It wasn't a clever plan I had, I didn't foresee a 60% drop in prices, I just got lucky.

gaius c · 01-03-2013 4:36pm

Scortho wrote: »

One of My parents btls is in neg eq. Doesn't mean they're in arrears.

Very few btls were family houses. Most were 1-2 bed bed apartments. Repossessions of 2 bed apartments in city centre will have a small effect on a 3 bed red brick in walk in condition in d6 that's in short supply. It will have a greater effect on the price of other btls provided the bank have a firesale. However they could also package them into a portfolio and sell them onto a fund avoiding the need for a firesale.

Ah I meant the BTL's in arrears that are almost certainly in negative equity too.

As for changes, yes it will have an effect. Young people in their 20's house share to a much larger extent in Ireland than they do elsewhere. If apartments were better value to rent, they would rent those instead and leave family homes available for families to live in. Lots and lots of empty apartments about.

Of course, then we'd run into the problem that too many apartments were built in the Wicklow mountains while there are two storey houses a stones throw from O'Connell st.

Scortho · 01-03-2013 4:38pm

Ritchi wrote: »

I didn't say they couldn't get credit, I said they couldn't afford the prices.

I couldn't, and I assumed I never would. I didn't base my decision not to buy on the assumption that prices would fall, rather I just assumed I could never buy. It wasn't a clever plan I had, I didn't foresee a 60% drop in prices, I just got lucky.

Thing is though any Tom dick or Harry could get credit to buy a house, bloody hell they could get credit to develop an estate.

You knew you couldn't afford, so you didn't buy. Many people however knew they couldn't afford, still bought as they thought property prices always rise, they never fall, it's interest only and it's guaranteed profit.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 4:57pm

Ritchi wrote: »

I didn't say they couldn't get credit, I said they couldn't afford the prices.

A distinction without a difference, unless you are suggesting that most people bought their Celtic Bubble properties with cash outright?

Congratulations on getting lucky - but please don't label the many people who actually thought about this and made conscious decisions as 'lucky'.

Ritchi · 01-03-2013 5:04pm

Poor Standard of Mahd wrote: »

A distinction without a difference, unless you are suggesting that most people bought their Celtic Bubble properties with cash outright?

Congratulations on getting lucky - but please don't label the many people who actually thought about this and made conscious decisions as 'lucky'.

The difference is that I looked at what the repayments were and decided I couldn't afford them. I'm lucky I didn't take a risk, and I wasnt earning 10 or 20k more, and I'm lucky prices have fallen as much as they have. I know a few others, who also had planned on never buying.

Very few if anyone could have predicted house prices would fall so much, and I'm suspicious of anyone who claims they predicted it. If you're one of the few, fair play to you.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 01-03-2013 5:17pm

Ritchi wrote: »

Very few if anyone could have predicted house prices would fall so much, and I'm suspicious of anyone who claims they predicted it. If you're one of the few, fair play to you.

There was actually quite a lot of us. And international, disinterested commentators too. We were just ignored or shouted down or dismissed as 'doom sayers' etc.

It's kind of ironic that people pointing out the bubble were despised on the way up for being wrong, and despised on the way down for being right.

StillWaters · 01-03-2013 6:37pm

Comments reported. It's like being in a school yard.

Photoshop · 01-03-2013 6:47pm

I'm enjoying it, interesting points.

The_Conductor · 01-03-2013 7:01pm

lima wrote: »

So you're (not your) saying I'm not successful because I don't have a family or a property?? LOL!

Judging by your spelling I am more intelligent than you and I bet that I have a far superior career than you, meaning I have more money than you. I get to spend it too as it's all mine - I don't owe it to the bank :cool:

And having kids shouldn't give you the right to squat in a property because you made a stupid mistake thinking you were going to make money from a house.

Look at you looking down on renting, just like the people of the boom, that's why I don't like any of you, your sense of self worth is incredible! In the mean time I go about my happy life not caring what happens anyone else that are not either my friends or family.

Lima- you're skating on thin ice here. Please read the forum charter if you intend to continue to post here. If you disagree with what someone else posts- attack the post, without attacking the poster. I'm not going to warn you again.

S.

Victor · 01-03-2013 7:15pm

modo85 wrote: »

Lima wud u catch a grip of yourself your living in cuckoo land if you think your successful cause from my readings your far from it.. if you had a family u defo wud have bought during the boom to put a roof over your kids heads and dont say u would of rented cause " i knew that was the best thing to do" cause it wasn't at the time, what if you died your children wud have no house just a rented house and your wife wud of inturn struggled wit juggling working to pay the rent and minding the kids hence owning a family home gave your family security which it still does..... My point about listing your achievements was that your gloating but in truth your just a bum with nothing, no house no friends no family around u nothing your not successful your a prime candidate for depression you loner..

Ps enjoy going on your fancy trips abroad on your Tod and blowing your money on brazzers

No insults please. Constructive posts only.

Moderator

riclad · 02-03-2013 12:31pm

Article in sunday business post, this week,said australian company bought all ge Irish mortgages,at a discount.
if client in arrears sells, house ,they are giving up to 50 per cent write offs,on original mortgage.
IF irish banks did this for btl clients ,there would be few repossesions needed.
eg Loan,200k,sell house for 100k, thats it, for the btl investor, apart from paying estate agents fees,legal fees etc
I Don,t think irish banks are gonna be as generous as that.
obviously btl buyers would be happy to sell up,if in arrears ,and in negative equity.

Poor Standard of Mahd · 02-03-2013 1:31pm

riclad wrote: »

Article in sunday business post, this week,said australian company bought all ge Irish mortgages,at a discount.
if client in arrears sells, house ,they are giving up to 50 per cent write offs,on original mortgage.
IF irish banks did this for btl clients ,there would be few repossesions needed.

The mortgage book was bought by Pepper at a massive discount. This means that they need to get far less back from each loan to be in profit. Irish banks can't do this as it would still mean massive losses for them (and the Irish taxpayer).

riclad · 02-03-2013 3:43pm

IT might make sense for them to write off,20 per cent, for btl clients,
in certain cases,
eg Loan, minus per 20 cent, you still owe 50k, IF 20 per cent ,plus 50k, plus house sale price covers the mortage.
IN case,s where the loan is in arrears and BTL client has a lower income.
i know someone who got btl ,deal, write off 18 per cent.
Pepper bought the GE loans for 60 per cent discount.
Well i meant few repossesions, for BTL investors,in my previous post.

Villa05 · 03-03-2013 1:10pm

Are the floodgates about to open?
Sunday Business Post Reprt: Ulster Bank aims to repossess at least 1,000 homes a year after legislation is passed

D3PO · 03-03-2013 1:14pm

Villa05 wrote: »

Are the floodgates about to open?
Sunday Business Post Reprt: Ulster Bank aims to repossess at least 1,000 homes a year after legislation is passed

in a word no.

Even if UB reposess 1,000 properties you can be sure they will manage the disposal of the assets in such a way as to get the most value. There will be no firesales.