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Dublin Business School for Software Development??

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  • 24-09-2014 4:41pm
    #1
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    I had been planning to do Software Development at NUIG but there was a lot of competition for places there and unfortunately didn't get an offer.

    I missed my offer at GMIT due to late application, but I have been offered a place at Dublin Business School.

    Now, I have no idea how the courses or course delivery may differ, but my main concern is the ultimate outcome.
    I'm not in any way familiar with DBS, but from what I understand, their IT courses are QQI and Hetac quality assured, and after speaking with the course director, he felt that what they have to offer would be quite similar in nature to a university or IT (but of course he's gonna say that, right?)

    Basically from those more experienced in software development, would you have any opinions or insights on a DBS course, versus one being offered by a Uni or somewhere like GMIT, or is the course director fairly correct in saying the outcome is much of a muchness regardless of institution?

    The modules of the DBS course are as follows:

    - Principles of Programming
    - Database Design and Development
    - Information Systems Development & Management
    - Object-Oriented Programming
    - Web Design and Development
    - Operating Systems & Networks

    - Object-oriented Programming 2
    - Database and Web Application Development
    - Mobile Application Development
    - Project

    And from what I understand, the main language being taught is C# (as oppose to C++ and Java; is that a good thing?)

    It's a seven month taught program, with a six month internship.
    Seven months does seem like an awful lot of cramming, but they said it's intense in nature but with a good outcome.


    Basically what I'm wondering is, will DBS offer a good qualification compared to NUIG or GMIT, and, going on the modules etc, does a course like this seem like it might set one up for a good future in the IT industry, from the point of view of those with experience in the industry?


    PS - the GMIT modules are as follows:

    1. Object-Oriented Software Development ?
    2. Computer Architecture & Technology Convergence ?
    3. Network Technologies ?
    4. Database Design & Development ?
    5. Web Application Development ?
    6. Agile Software Development ?
    7. Advanced Object-Oriented Software Development/Project ?
    8. Operating Systems & Cloud Computing ?
    9. Enterprise Application Development ?
    10. Mobile Applications Development ?
    11. Work Placement/Major Project ?

    To those more familiar with what those modules entail, do they stack up as being ultimately pretty similar to the DBS course setup?


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    #2
    amen
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    What is the exact qualification you receive at the end of the course and where does it fit on the National Skills Framework i.e. Level 6,7,8 etc.

    If it is a 7 month course I cannot see how it could be compared to a four years degree course from NUIG or GMIT (level 8)

    You need


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    #3
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    As the previous poster said, seven months is an extremely short time frame and it is not comparable to an undergraduate degree. The postgraduate software conversion courses last 12-18 months and graduates from those courses would only have a basis knowledge of software from my experience.

    On languages, C# is good as there are plenty of jobs out there in the market. The likes of VB.Net isn't as visible in the real world. The last two companies I worked for have moved from VB.Net to C#, for example. Don't focus on the language too much though. Understanding the structures and concepts behind them is far more important.


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    #4
    Digital Society
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Digital Society


    Where is the internship?


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    #5
    Aswerty
    Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Aswerty


    Digital Society wrote: »
    Where is the internship?

    I don't think that's how it works...

    If he's lucky the college will have a good network of companies he'll compete with classmates to get into. If he's not he'll have to find his own internship.


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    #6
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Digital Society wrote: »
    Where is the internship?

    As aswerty said, he probably won't know that. Some colleges are linked to the larger companies but others just shop around for placements during the academic year. The OP might even be better served applying to companies himself, if he knows the area within the sector that he wants to work. If he develops a love for UI design, for example, he would be far better served going into a design house, as opposed to working in 1st level support in some multinational for the six months. The college would happily link to the design company, as it provides them with a new partner for internships.


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    #7
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    Yes, from what I understand, it's a QQI level 8 qualification, H-Dip, falling into the same bracket as a degree.

    Of course, 7 months does sound awfully short, and the academic I spoke with made it clear it's an intensive course.

    That's the information I have to hand.

    I believe the 6 month internship is part of the program, being assigned 30 credits.

    From what I understand, all the ICT conversion courses are 12 months, with 3 month internships.
    The DBS one differs in that it's 13 months with 6 month internship - so I don't know how that's going to work.

    They're being offered by springboardcourses, so it's basically an initiative to get people into the IT field as workers, ASAP.

    Yeah of course, my concern was DBS vs a University or IT.
    Any of you guys know anything about that?
    Or do the modules I posted look similar?


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    #8
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    Yeah, just checking that again - NFQ Level 8 is the qualification title.


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    #9
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    They're being offered by springboardcourses, so it's basically an initiative to get people into the IT field as workers, ASAP.

    Yeah of course, my concern was DBS vs a University or IT.
    Any of you guys know anything about that?
    Or do the modules I posted look similar?

    I am going to be honest with you, as someone who has a Degree and Research Masters in Computing from a NUI and eight years industrial experience as a developer. No employer will equate that course to a degree level course. I understand that the purpose of the course is to get people into the industry asap but I am very disappointed to hear that an academic tried to claim that it was equivalent to a degree or H-Dip. The intensity of the course is irrelevant. You could spend 12 hours a day studying and it still wouldn't compare.


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    #10
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    This is the GMIT course outlay:

    springboardcourses.ie/details/3654

    Yeah, you know I agree; I can't really fathom how a 7 month taught program could equate to an undergraduate degree.
    But I guess even if it gets it's participants an entry level qualification, a foot hold in the industry, then it's worthwhile.


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    #11
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    This course?

    http://www.dbs.ie/course/ict/higher-diploma-in-science-in-computing-(software-development)-(sept-2014)


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    #12
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    That's the one!


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    #13
    hooplah
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭hooplah


    The NFQ is set by an external body, not by DBS so level 8 is level 8 and that s that

    http://www.nfq.ie/nfq/en/about_NFQ/framework_levels_award_types.html

    Of course it doesn't mean that everyone will accord it the same level of respect but that's a different matter.


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    #14
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    is it not a but unrealistic to cram that much into so short a time frame.


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    #15
    Aswerty
    Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Aswerty


    For building buisness line CRUD applications 18 months nearly seems like overkill. Get a Java cert, be grand...

    On a more serioius note. Many people doing the spring board courses already have a 3/4 year qualification (I think it's even a requirement). This means they should already have a decent aptitude for learning and understading relatively complex subject matter. Combined with the fact that the courses are focused on job eligibility and not the development of an individuals competency in science or engineering a lot of stuff can be left out. Thats means they don't get the joy of learning analog electronics, digital signal processing, language design, digital architecture, OS architecture, etc. To some that sounds like a god send. To others it is an afront to learning (I can think of users of this board who'd fit into both the former and latter). Regardless of your stance I think its reasonable to say the graduates of such courses are pretty well prepared for the aforementioned buisness line CRUD application development or even the precious mobile app development industry.

    Yeah, maybe they won't be building servers, drivers, databases, or any other type of heavyweight/low level software. But then again most of us don't do that. Ours is an industry where learning is endemic (which is a good thing) so I can imagine that as these folks careers progress they will broaden their knowledge until there is no difference between them and the "Computer Scientists".

    I'll finish with an anecdote. I was involved in recruiting a guy who graduated from a spring board course. He was in his 30's and brought a work ethic and a confidence that you won't find in your typical 22 year old graduate. He was starting a role where he was dealing with non-technical folks (or technical in a different domain). From the employers point of view he was hands down better suited to the role than any other candidate. This is just one example of a spring board success. I expect there is thousands of others.


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