cold calling laws

I bought a "No Cold Callers" sign off ebay for a couple of euro....it actually has a list groups that are not to disturb us. Most do read the sign and leave but I do get one or two chancers that will knock anyway. I just point to the sign and close the door.

goz83 wrote: »

No. But as an ex cold caller, I would respect if someone had a sign on their door to say they didn't want cold callers. Shame really, as often there are some genuinely good deals. Unfortunately, it's hard to trust cold callers to give you all the facts.

Hi goz83,

I can't speak for every door to door sales firm but the one for which I worked did charitable donations and subscriptions to Sky or TalkTalk broadband. There was no disadvantage or advantage I could see either way in signing up on the doorstep versus online.

The charitable donations were a different story - for starters I was upset as it seems all the beautiful people had been singled out for this duty while the rest of us Morlocks were left to plug broadband.

Second the team leaders privately admitted to me that people would be far better off donating online or over the phone due to the commissions charged by doorstep collecting.

Having said that it seems that people are more generally more likely to donate if someone is pestering them on the door step than if they receive a flyer in the mail.

GoodLord wrote: »

thanks . out side glass you mean? does it stop junk mail too?

Yeah it's on the outside of the glass. No have another "no junkmail" sticker on the letterbox for that!!

goz83 wrote: »

Some people are just disrespectful. Ripping the stickers off doors was a scummy thing to be doing.

There are plenty of companies that offer a basic and some offer basic + commission. I worked for the commission only. And while I do see where you are coming from, I also believe that a lot can be learned by working for one of these companies. It's very tough and you can easily work a full week and make very little money. But, you can also earn lots and you don't have to mislead a single person to do it. Very often, he wrong people are doing the teaching and bad habits are passed onto new reps. I was very good at selling and never once misrepresented myself, or the companies I was calling for. What exactly are you campaigning against?

The people who are members of the group (it's called NAME AND SHAME CORPORATE RECRUITMENT SCAMS if anyone's interested), feel that the companies are actively misleading people who work for them.

I've already mentioned the fact that pay is often commission only - this is a big deal as it's possible then to work a full day without any wages, and we have a word for that!

Also younger jobseekers may be pressured into taking work without realising the consequences of registering as self employed i.e you are responsible for your own social security contributions, you aren't entitled to sick pay or maternity leave and if you're injured on the job it's your own problem and you receive nothing from your employer.

I did interview for a company based outside Dublin a while back who do offer a basic wage on top of salary which at least should mean you have an employment contract which I think is marginally better, however a quick Google showed that most people quit after a few days.

You might wonder why this is but a quick google of the company name or "door to door scams" is enough to be able to see why.

The fact remains that no matter how silver tongued a salesperson you are (or believe you are if my experiences are anything to go by), there are limits on to whom you can sell. In the case of broadband, the person in question has to have a fixed telephone line, everyone you speak to needs to have a current account capable of setting up direct debits (around 1 million adults in the UK don't have this for instance!).

As for learning useful skills, this is true in a manner of speaking. I remember one of my team leaders decided he'd take a colleague of mine and I under his wing as we were trotting around a housing estate.

One of the first doors on which we knocked was a middle aged lady who immediately told him that she wasn't interested, he simply tried to ignore what she said and kept on talking about the wonders of XYZ Broadband - in the end she lost patience and asked to see his ID badge so she could make a complaint about him to the central authority which ostensibly regulates door to door sellers.

An hour or two later this rather cocky lad (who may I add was 18 months younger than me - I was 24 at the time), joked to an elderly lady that we weren't the Mafia (we were dressed in suits you see... hilarious).

The old lady didn't understand very well and called the Police. The officer in question simply took our names and addresses and ran them through the system but I was less than impressed.

However it is true that a couple of years later I both got a job with an emphasis on sales and at immediately the same time started my own business. I enjoyed modest success with both precisely because I had seen everything this firm had done wrong, namely:

- I learned to take no for an answer. If someone made a clear statement they weren't interested, I simply left them be.
- Before launching into any kind of pitch I'd mention my customer's other options.

I know of course you claim you did the same but this directly contradicts the advice given by these firms. When I lived in a Dublin one of my housemates decided she needed to bring in some extra bread and went to work for one of these companies collecting donations for Amnesty International.

I had the privilege of reading her training manual and there were around five pages devoted to overcoming objections by people on the doorstep - interestingly nowhere does it say that if the customer tells you politely but firmly that they aren't interested should you simply move on.

My favourite "overcome" was when people said they would make a donation over the telephone or online, the seller would then point out that way they wouldn't get commission so it was better for the Irish economy(!) if they signed up on the doorstep - I mean seriously?

Firstly, I don't follow this logic as if you donate to a local charity, it's likely the money will stay in the country anyway. Second if you really had such a vested interest in the economy, the same effect could be achieved by putting a ten Euro bill in a homeless person's begging bowl. Gott in Himmel!

Of course when I mention my experiences most people who seem to have fallen for the rather cultish notion that the job has to do with marketing and not sales, and that they'll be managing their own office within 18 months of signing up tell me what you have said i.e it's the bad ones that spoil the reputation for the majority of ethical door to door sales firms.

Once again I refer you to Google - the internet is saturated with accounts of people who have been ripped off by these firms both from those who signed up on the door step and from former employees. Read and weep.

This is what people just don't understand. The charity has a marketing budget. They can spend it on tv adverts, signage, or sales people among other things. The average person donates for 30 months or so. So the marketing company, or rep gets paid a certain amount per sale, depending on the donation. I think a €10 per month donation paid about €40 for the sale, but only if the customer did not cancel within 6 months. So, now you can see why the charity is attracted to this type of deal, as it spends nothing. When they pay a basic, the rep might bring in no sales and the charity loses. Door to door sales and street sales can bring in a steady stream of donations for the charity. The marketing budget needs to be spent either way. So, even if you donate online infrequently, a portion of that donation will go to marketing.

With respect, I find your reasoning rather circular.

For starters while charities have a marketing budget they also have targets for donations. If they meet those targets the marketing budget can go down accordingly - not that you can ever have too much money but it's not a zero sum game in the way that's implied here.

That's not to say that door to door collectors using high pressure sales tactics isn't a good way to bring in money - the question is if it's an effective way to raise more, reference this article in the Telegraph:

"According to the PFRA, for each new donor, charities will recover the cost of face-to-face recruitment in between 12 and 18 months.


But with half of all direct debits collected on the street being cancelled within a year, a charity will finally break even on the money it has paid to the fundraising company only after more than two years.



It is a long-term investment that costs big money and one on which, often, only the largest charities can afford to gamble."

So you can see that even if the person doesn't cancel within six months, but does do so after the year is out, then this is an ineffective marketing tactic - it does of course bring in a steady stream of money but only in the same way a Ponzi scheme does, your outlay is more than you get back in most cases.

The Financial Times also alludes to this when covering the demise of Dialogue, one of the larger street fund raising firms in Birmingham (where I'm from!) :

"Trainees were constantly reminded of the need to sign up donors for the long term. In most contracts with chugging agencies, charities lose money on anyone who drops out in the first year."

So not only are the tactics of these firms questionable, they are actually ineffective in the long term.

GoodLord wrote: »

Tell us about the rituals and the training. Do they use NLP?

Hi GoodLord,

Thanks for your reply - the rituals I underwent seem to be similar to those undergone by other people who were members of other firms.

The basic premise is there's a small office in which a number of young people are crammed, prepped and then sent out for the day to knock on doors.

At the firm where I worked there was a room named 'Atmosphere' where no sitting was allowed (indeed there were no chairs!) - the room was used for morning meetings, to allow visitors to make motivational speeches.

I found this excellent account of team meetings which is so eloquently put and so closely mirrors my own experience I'll ask you to take a look if you want a full rundown.

However in brief, mostly we practised the "three step" and "five step" sales techniques necessary to get our foot in the door and persuade the customer to sign up to whatever shady ware was the flavour of the month.

A few points to add were that for some reason everyone was required to wear a red shirt on a Friday. I don't know why red was chosen (it certainly wasn't due to any Socialist leanings), nor why a Friday in particular was a particularly good day on which to wear it.

My team leader actually called me the day beforehand to check I had indeed used what little money I had left to purchase a red shirt. I later on found out this was because as a newbie, if I messed up inside 'Atmosphere' she had to share my penance.

This came home to me rather quickly as I had the audacity to lean against a wall while speaking to a colleague. Despite the fact I had worn the aforementioned red shirt I had to lie on the floor and pretend to be a sizzling rasher of bacon.

Aside from the repeated chanting, the fact that each team leader seemed to have their own theme song and practising our cold calling techniques, every person on my team was required to choose the name of a Superhero, which was easier said than done given the number of comic savvy twenty somethings milling around.

I eventually settled on the Green Lantern but became a little troubled when I was referred to by this nickname at all times.

I also noticed that the Team Leaders became extremely agitated when I spoke to any new recruits. One of them very politely spoke to me in private after I made an offhand comment about the fact it actually equates to a ten hour working day. Another quite rudely told me to shut up after I told another new recruit the name of the recruitment website where I'd signed up.

It seemed I was interfering with their mojo.

The day I left, the head of the firm was giving a rather inspired speech about Darwinism and how the cutthroat world of sales was all about survival of the fittest. While he seemed very genial, it was clear the man was a moron so I let it slide.

People don't want door-to-door sales people. Most places in the UK the police/council will have issued signs saying that there is no buying/selling/charity at the door. If people want sales people etc. they are free not to put the sign up.

I'm a sales person and have been since I was 16. I still work PT while I transition to a new role, which will still require a certain level of 'sales'. I've worked for some cowboys and some great companies. Never have I worked door to door and never would I. If you're a halfway decent sales person you don't need to resort to door-to-door jobs.

The company I work for now firstly moved it's door-to-door team in house after the huge number of complaints, then got rid of them entirely. There is a time and a place. My door is never the place. It might have been before the advent of the internet but not now.

I'm polite the first time, after that expect to be told where to go. Also expect to be told where to go if there is a sign up. Respect other people's space.