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Should government allow easier access for archaeologists?

  • 08-05-2015 11:33am
    #1
    campingcarist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭


    Reading in the newspapers where maritime archeologists want access to the Lusitania but the government flatly refuses to it.

    The same, I believe, applies to any site classed as an historic site. We have these sites all around the country but through lack of "a dig", we are very restricted on the information we can glean from it.

    I am not an archaeologist; my interest is in genealogy but I would like to see more information coming from these sites. I must state that I don't know the sites myself but feel there is a lot of history hidden, just waiting to be discovered and recorded, not to have it just lying in the ground in an unknown state.


Comments

  • #2
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    If I am correct is the Lusitania not classed as a War Grave?

    If so then there is also the risk of unstable ordnance aboard the wreck.

    However, as I am not aware of the full circumstances, I might be wrong.


  • #3
    campingcarist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭campingcarist


    There was mention of it as being classed as a war grave.

    However, there are many "protected" (just remembered the terminology, the old mind forgets a lot now and I seem to have difficulty in remembering words) sites which in my opinion, should be investigated.

    I love Time Team on TV, in fact I'm watching an episode as I write, and they certainly prove much and get a history about the sites they dig.


  • #4
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    campingcarist wrote: »
    Reading in the newspapers where maritime archeologists want access to the Lusitania but the government flatly refuses to it.

    As CF pointed out the wreck of the Lusitania is a grave. It is too deep c. 95m for most divers to reach. The only ones who can afford to go down are commercial entities that would need to poke around and
    The same, I believe, applies to any site classed as an historic site. We have these sites all around the country but through lack of "a dig", we are very restricted on the information we can glean from it.

    I am not an archaeologist; my interest is in genealogy but I would like to see more information coming from these sites. I must state that I don't know the sites myself but feel there is a lot of history hidden, just waiting to be discovered and recorded, not to have it just lying in the ground in an unknown state.

    None of that is true TBH. There are a large number of sites that are owned by the state and are open to the public. Most sites on private land are accessible if you ask the land owners permission.

    Plenty of info on these sites is available on the National Monuments Service website www.archaeology.ie

    However, there are many "protected" (just remembered the terminology, the old mind forgets a lot now and I seem to have difficulty in remembering words) sites which in my opinion, should be investigated

    It's down to money at the end of the day. Excavation is labour intensive and can be very expensive. The recession has forced a lot of very good field archaeologists out of the profession. It would have been good to have had a state funded programme of big research excavations to have helped us through the tough times and give students an opportunity to get experience. However, it never happened and most of us had to rely on private sector work to get by.


  • #5
    Riamfada
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Riamfada


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    As CF pointed out the wreck of the Lusitania is a grave. It is too deep c. 95m for most divers to reach. The only ones who can afford to go down are commercial entities that would need to poke around and.

    Not necessarily. I know at least one club who routinely dive to such depths a few miles out and take souvenirs from u-boats around the coast. (and brag about it).


  • #6
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Riamfada wrote: »
    Not necessarily. I know at least one club who routinely dive to such depths a few miles out and take souvenirs from u-boats around the coast. (and brag about it).

    I didn't think that recreational divers would go to that depth because of the amount of equipment and training needed. You learn something new everyday.


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  • #7
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    campingcarist wrote: »
    I love Time Team on TV, in fact I'm watching an episode as I write, and they certainly prove much and get a history about the sites they dig.

    Thing is they aren't really "digging" sites too any great standard, AFAIK a private company comes in before and afterwards and completes the sites (and apparently helps with some finds ;) ) .


  • #8
    campingcarist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭campingcarist


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Thing is they aren't really "digging" sites too any great standard, AFAIK a private company comes in before and afterwards and completes the sites (and apparently helps with some finds ;) ) .
    I have noticed that they seem to be able to dig some pretty big holes or areas with just a few people with spades and trowels, even where diggers have been used. I know how long it would take me to dig a 2m x 1m trench to a depth of 75 cms.

    There are so many old castles/mounds in this country that I feel it is a shame to have them and not do some kind of dig to enlighten us more about them. My own ancestors used to live in Bunratty Castle for several generations.


  • #9
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Here's an article about diving on the Lusitania

    http://www.independent.ie/news/special-features/lusitania-100/the-lusitanias-last-resting-place-31168537.html


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Somebody has bought the wreck and wants to dive on it. There is no reason why he shouldnt be allowed to do this provided, of course, that he assembles a reputable team and observes whatever sensible rules might be decided on.

    There was a Discovery programme on this site recently. They sent down robot submersibles. The wreck is actually covered in fishing nets and is rapidly disintegrating.

    There is a rather unpleasant story that a navy, either the British or Irish actually used the wreck to test (or destroy/detonate) depth charges in the 1950s. The UK navy have denied this and the Irish navy have refused to comment (according to the report). Thus the hint is that the refusal to allow archaeology might be to hide such actions.

    Most wrecks are grave sites. This wreck has real historical value given its importance in WWII. There is no reason why reputable archaeology and cleaning up (removal of the tangled netting) shouldnt be allowed before the wreck becomes too dangerous to record.


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