Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538

krudler · 23-09-2012 11:07am

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I know when I watch this again I will hate it, it looked amazing in the cinema and I really enjoyed it, but sometimes watching a film on the big screen can blind you from its obvious flaws (Avatar is the most obvious).

This basically, Prometheus looks lovely, and has one standout setpiece in the C-section scene, but its insultingly stupid throughout. stuff like Weyland being on board, why bother keeping it a secret? he's funding the trip, he's alive and well, why bother sneaking him on board his own vessel when they could have just told the crew from the beginning? It was put in for a twist reveal and doesnt work. And Guy Pearce looks ridiculous in it.

Turpentine · 23-09-2012 6:44pm

krudler wrote: »

This basically, Prometheus looks lovely, and has one standout setpiece in the C-section scene, but its insultingly stupid throughout. stuff like Weyland being on board, why bother keeping it a secret? he's funding the trip, he's alive and well, why bother sneaking him on board his own vessel when they could have just told the crew from the beginning? It was put in for a twist reveal and doesnt work. And Guy Pearce looks ridiculous in it.

100%. Why didn't they just get an older actor to play Weyland? It's not as if there were any flashback scenes in the film.

The TED virals were interesting and Pearce was good as a young Weyland, but that has no actual relation to the finished film other than being a little easter egg outside of the narrative.

Maybe they'd intended to have the TED talk as part of the film or something? I don't think Ridley Scott even directed it though.

Mickeroo · 23-09-2012 6:48pm

Turpentine wrote: »

100%. Why didn't they just get an older actor to play Weyland? It's not as if there were any flashback scenes in the film.

The TED virals were interesting and Pearce was good as a young Weyland, but that has no actual relation to the finished film other than being a little easter egg outside of the narrative.

Maybe they'd intended to have the TED talk as part of the film or something? I don't think Ridley Scott even directed it though.

That TED talk is frankly the best thing that came out of the film imo. An ambitious young Weyland leading the expedition could have made for a better story I think.

Turpentine · 23-09-2012 7:51pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

That TED talk is frankly the best thing that came out of the film imo. An ambitious young Weyland leading the expedition could have made for a better story I think.

I'd be inclined to agree.

While an aged tycoon searching for the fountain of youth serviced the story somewhat, it would have been better had it been the Pearce of the TED talk in the film.

In my opinion, exploratory zeal and greed would have been a better motivation than "I'm old and my make-up's crap".

It also would have been more interesting to show Weyland's strengths rather than concentrate on his weakness, which is what we got.

krudler · 24-09-2012 12:27am

Mickeroo wrote: »

That TED talk is frankly the best thing that came out of the film imo. An ambitious young Weyland leading the expedition could have made for a better story I think.

Agree, he could have been a great flawed character, I'm not sure why he needed to be in the role he's in at all tbh, he shows up in the last few minutes, doesnt do much but walk like a geriatric Robocop and then gets twatted with an android head, there's no logic in having him smuggled on board and pretend to be dead. You dont even see the relationship he had with Holloway and Shaw, we're just told in one line of dialogue during the hologram sequence that he believes in their work, so spends a trillion dollars sending them into space after faking his own death,or at least letting people believe he's dead? ok then.

Duggy747 · 24-09-2012 9:59am

For Guy Pearce's old man make-up.

IMDB wrote:

Ridley Scott' initially wanted 'Max Von Sydow' for the role of Peter Weyland. However, Scott and Damon Lindelof conceived of a scene in which David the android (Michael Fassbender) would interface with Weyland while in hypersleep, and that Weyland's dream would reflect his looks as a younger man since he is obsessed with immortality.

Though the scene was cut from the script and never filmed, Guy Pearce had already been cast in the role and thus underwent extensive make-up to appear elderly.

krudler · 24-09-2012 12:51pm

Duggy747 wrote: »

For Guy Pearce's old man make-up.

that would have been much better tbh, would have given Pearce a more prominent role instead of showing up in the last few minutes.

the most underused part of the film was Charlize Theron, she doesnt do a whole lot but look annoyed throughout, there's no character development with her, and the biggest unanswered question of the film did she actually bang Stringer Bell?

the_monkey · 27-09-2012 10:45am

Gave this a second viewing over the weekend, still very dissapointing.

Stupid characters, the Alien creature(s) were rubbish, black goo ?? come on - 30 years out of sci fi and Ridley couldn't come up with something better ??

This image sums it up nicely -

Any sign of a directors cut of this ?

Duggy747 · 28-09-2012 6:10pm

Some new bits from the upcoming Blu-Ray release:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK684Ti1KyI

Incomplete CGI shots in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSt0iCgonbs

Bits of new scenes in this, including a tiny look at the different Fifield mutation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd1VqCtJY3E

Duggy747 · 28-09-2012 6:28pm

Plus, things taking from the audio commentary:

The Primordial ship was originally meant to be the Alien Derelict/Juggernaut ship in Lindelof’s draft, but Ridley Scott thought it would be cooler to show something else.

The opening sequence was meant to be longer, showing a group of Engineers talking to each other in a proto-language.

In most of Spaihts’ drafts, the black material that consumed the Sacrifice Engineer transmuted, flew away and bit a primitive woman/man. Their pupils dilated and you could see something change inside them. Another version included a salamander-like hand reach out of the water.

There was a scene cut for financial reasons in which a submarine expedition are looking at a sunken city in the Mediterranean where they find a giant tablet with a star map on it. A different version of the script included an archaeological dig on Mars where they found ruins sharing similarities with ancient ruins on Earth.

In some of Spaihts drafts, Holloway and Shaw went to visit Weyland in his private residence, a space station orbiting around Earth. Another one included the couple travelling to Mars and visiting Weyland in his home which had a view of the terraforming work taking place on the planet.

Jon Spaihts imagined Holloway as an older person, perhaps inappropriately old for Shaw as a mate. Additionally Shaw was Holloway’s student at university.
There was a scene were Milburn discovers a little worm and talks about how important this discovery is. Lindelof mentions that this would have kinda explained why he was so excited about his later encounter with the Hammerpede.

Spaihts experimented with the idea that the Engineers saw in a whiter spectrum than human beings did. To David’s eyes, the ruins and catacombs showed interfaces that only he could see. Picking up clues that nobody else was picking up.

In the script, when David breaks the Ampule open, they cut to David’s POV and showed the black goo at a microscopic level.

In Spaihts version of the story, Holloway awakens a Facehugger while he is exploring the pyramid. He is implanted with an Alien, the “classic model”. The “Alien” burst out of Holloway during the love scene between Shaw and Holloway.

Spaihts’ draft included a cargo hold filled up with Alien eggs, David discovers this area. This scene revealed the purpose of the Juggernaut ship which was on its way to Earth to undo the human experiment. When Shaw follows David into the vaults of the ship, he deliberately infected her with a Facehugger. He also took her helmet so she couldn’t run back to the ship and save her life by using the med pod. She still makes it back there by holding her breath and using compressed air.

In the earlier draft by Jon Spaihts, a kind of classic chestburster is extracted from Shaw’s body during the med pod scene. The chestburster is then expelled from the pod and Shaw stays in there while it heals her. As she wakes up, she can see the monster grow up. Eight hours later the monster is full size and she’s watching it kill people through the glass.
Lindelof mentions that there was a two page dialogue exchange between David and the Engineer.

In Spaihts’ draft, the last Engineer died in the pilot’s chair. He had been infected and was carrying a Chestburster. It emerged from him while the Juggernaut was flying which caused the Juggernaut to falter on its path, allowing the Magellan ship to ram it. Shaw manages to eject from the ship just before the ramming took place. Then the Alien that just emerged from the Engineer comes out of the Juggernaut and the final action scene is Shaw being hunted by this creature.

Towards the end of the film, Lindeof talks about a deleted scene in which Shaw asks David what it is that the Engineer said to him during their earlier conversation. David tells Shaw that the Engineer told him that they did not come from there [LV-223] but a place called “Paradise”.

The fight between Shaw and The Engineer is extended, too:

krudler · 28-09-2012 6:54pm

the extended opening had some shots floating around for a while:

krudler · 28-09-2012 6:59pm

That blu-ray ad annoys me "hey remember all those plot holes that make no sense in the movie you paid to see? well here's some extra stuff explaining them!"

Duggy747 · 28-09-2012 7:01pm

Pretty much what we all thought, the theatrical cut was a mess so we need the home release to explain their colossal fùck-ups and answer the nonsense that was in (or left out of) the movie.

pixelburp · 28-09-2012 7:15pm

I admit to being one of the more determined defenders of this movie, and still would be in hindsight, but that Blu-ray trailer makes me annoyed; it's practically trolling the audience. It pretty much confirms that what was released in the cinemas was not the finished product.

I wonder if this release might change peoples' opinions of the film, if indeed it clears up some of the more confusing / messy elements. I doubt it, but it'd be funny & hardly the first time it happened either.

Oafley Jones · 28-09-2012 9:15pm

Slightly drunk and just out of looper, so here's a rant....

I look in at this thread from time the time and quickly jump out. The energy that is devoted to this is my mind a waste. The finished product and script has nothing but contempt for the audience's intelligence. It's as if the finished product proclaimed that .... 1+1 =5 and a whole bunch of people sat around trying to figure out why. And now with the extended cut we find the missing part of that equation so that the whole thing should make sense. Hurrah. Well FU Ridley your equation is still a reductive piece of ****.

Gorgeous looking though.

uncleoswald · 28-09-2012 10:12pm

That audio commentary, if true, confirms what we all suspected.

In it's original draft, Prometheus was simply going to be an unnecessary straight up prequel to Alien that had the potential to be a good popcorn flick but still had the opportunity for some sci-fi musings about what it means to be human etc...

Then in vaguely striving to deliver "something different," Scott and Lindelhof created an unholy mess of a film that never seems sure what it's purpose is.

Duggy747 · 28-09-2012 11:30pm

I would've settled for a good Alien flick with a decent script and Scott's knack for great visuals.

This movie looked great but was just horribly crippled by a script that to try too hard to break away from the initial drafts.

krudler · 29-09-2012 12:18am

Duggy747 wrote: »

I would've settled for a good Alien flick with a decent script and Scott's knack for great visuals.

This movie looked great but was just horribly crippled by a script that to try too hard to break away from the initial drafts.

the draft idea listed above sound much better than the actual film. It was a prequel to Alien, but then it wasnt, and wanted to be something different, then throws in all these hamfisted nods to the original movie and winds up being a mess.

kowloon · 29-09-2012 12:33am

Did they mess up the cinema release on purpose? It almost seems like they did reading and watching the above.

Duggy747 · 29-09-2012 1:35am

Along with all this new stuff revealed leading up to the Blu-Ray release I read that the intro with all the engineers was cut to make the movie "more mysterious".

One of the biggest complaints about the movie was about things been left unanswered and making no sense like the Biologist being so happy to touch the hissing mutated worm:

There was a scene were Milburn discovers a little worm and talks about how important this discovery is. Lindelof mentions that this would have kinda explained why he was so excited about his later encounter with the Hammerpede.

Zubeneschamali · 29-09-2012 1:42am

It sounds as if the draft would have been just an unimaginative cash-in prequel, so they hired lindelof to make it into an incoherent confused mess instead.

Mickeroo · 29-09-2012 1:46am

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It sounds as if the draft would have been just an unimaginative cash-in prequel, so they hired lindelof to make it into an incoherent confused mess instead.

Indeed. Tbh, I would rather if it had been eggs facehuggers, chestbursters and xenos in this movie with the engineers ship somehow crashing on LV-426 at the end, also eggs rather than canisters. As it is it's just a mess and the creatures make no sense in the context of the other films. They still could have had Shaw flying off to paradise for the sequel and this film would fit into the established universe a lot better.

rednik · 29-09-2012 12:18pm

Review of the extras on the upcoming blu ray release, the 3D version will contain a lot more.

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/29/prometheus-the-extras-review/

Snake Plisken · 30-09-2012 1:04am

Yeah extra bonus disc on 3D release that's the one I'm buying as you'll get the film on standard High Def as well! Think Fox are just trying to increase sales on the 3D version by including the extra bonus disc.

jman0war · 30-09-2012 8:57am

Wow 159 pages!
I have limited access to the internet these days (at least limited time to access restricted sites, like boards and any discussion forum), but have a couple specific questions:

1) What's the theory about the opening scenes at the waterfall? The engineer drinks from a cup of the xenomorph goo in an almost ritualized manner, or perhaps as a sort of protest directed at the ship hoovering above?

2) When they wake the engineer in deep slumber, he attacks, his eyes look black so does this mean he was contaminated?

iColdFusion · 30-09-2012 10:34am

Coming a bit late to this thread but as a fan of the Alien movies (1, 2 & 4 anyway) overall I enjoyed this and can forgive alot of the problems just because I love its pure sci-fi-ness

Mickeroo wrote: »

Indeed. Tbh, I would rather if it had been eggs facehuggers, chestbursters and xenos in this movie with the engineers ship somehow crashing on LV-426 at the end, also eggs rather than canisters. As it is it's just a mess and the creatures make no sense in the context of the other films. They still could have had Shaw flying off to paradise for the sequel and this film would fit into the established universe a lot better.

I too would have been happier if they either went full xeno or let the black goo be some other different weapon maybe even something the engineers made to stop the xenos.
The random xeno getting born at the end of this very much undermined them as the perfectly engineered killing machine they are in the other movies.

But the real question is how does David play the flute!? :pac:

Mickeroo · 30-09-2012 11:18am

jman0war wrote: »

Wow 159 pages!
I have limited access to the internet these days (at least limited time to access restricted sites, like boards and any discussion forum), but have a couple specific questions:

1) What's the theory about the opening scenes at the waterfall? The engineer drinks from a cup of the xenomorph goo in an almost ritualized manner, or perhaps as a sort of protest directed at the ship hoovering above?

2) When they wake the engineer in deep slumber, he attacks, his eyes look black so does this mean he was contaminated?

1) I took that to be the engneers seeding life on earth, human life at least. There's footage of other engineers watching him removed from the film, I think its a ritual sacrifice rather than some renegade actions.

2) Don't think he was contaminated. From the few details we get in the film the engineers had decided to destroy us, something went wrong before they could launch the ship for earth tough. Basically I took the engineers reaction to seeing humans standing around him when he wakes up as "FUUUUUUUUUUUU..."

Raekwon · 30-09-2012 2:38pm

Here is a list of the deleted scenes that are added to the BluRay:

00:02:31:16 (ARRIVAL OF THE ENGINEERS) (DELETED SCENE)
00:00:58:05 (T’IS THE SEASON) (DELETED SCENE)
00:00:42:08 (OUR FIRST ALIEN) (DELETED SCENE)
00:00:42:14 (SKIN) (DELETED SCENE)
00:01:22:01 (WE’RE NOT ALONE ANYMORE) (DELETED SCENE)
00:02:57:01 (STRANGE BEDFELLOWS) (DELETED SCENE)
00:01:25:04 (HOLLOWAY HUNGOVER) (DELETED SCENE)
00:00:23:12 (DAVID’S OBJECTIVE) (DELETED SCENE)
00:03:27:07 (JANEK FILLS VICKERS IN) (DELETED SCENE)
00:03:40:12 (A KING HAS HIS REIGN) (DELETED SCENE)
00:02:01:24 (FITFIELD ATTACKS) (DELETED SCENE)
00:04:06:06 (THE ENGINEER SPEAKS) (DELETED SCENE)
00:05:30:04 (FINAL BATTLE) (DELETED SCENE)
00:05:05:19 (PARADISE) (DELETED SCENE)

Janek fills Vickers in made me laugh

TheUsual · 30-09-2012 5:30pm

Raekwon wrote: »

Janek fills Vickers in made me laugh

"Carry on Prometheus".

wampyrus77 · 30-09-2012 11:52pm

Prometheus the movie should sued by stargate sg1 because stargate spaceship is also called Prometheus

johnny_ultimate · 01-10-2012 1:18am

wampyrus77 wrote: »

Prometheus the movie should sued by stargate sg1 because stargate spaceship is also called Prometheus

Hesiod should sue Stargate SGI then, although that's pretty hard when the plaintiff is dead 2,800 years or so.

Overheal · 01-10-2012 1:32am

wampyrus77 wrote: »

Prometheus the movie should sued by stargate sg1 because stargate spaceship is also called Prometheus

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Hesiod should sue Stargate SGI then, although that's pretty hard when the plaintiff is dead 2,800 years or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ES_mgF1_9w

sReq | uTeK · 01-10-2012 1:39am

Mickeroo wrote: »

jman0war wrote: »

Wow 159 pages!
I have limited access to the internet these days (at least limited time to access restricted sites, like boards and any discussion forum), but have a couple specific questions:

1) What's the theory about the opening scenes at the waterfall? The engineer drinks from a cup of the xenomorph goo in an almost ritualized manner, or perhaps as a sort of protest directed at the ship hoovering above?

2) When they wake the engineer in deep slumber, he attacks, his eyes look black so does this mean he was contaminated?

1) I took that to be the engneers seeding life on earth, human life at least. There's footage of other engineers watching him removed from the film, I think its a ritual sacrifice rather than some renegade actions.

2) Don't think he was contaminated. From the few details we get in the film the engineers had decided to destroy us, something went wrong before they could launch the ship for earth tough. Basically I took the engineers reaction to seeing humans standing around him when he wakes up as "FUUUUUUUUUUUU..."

I don't think it was a massive fu.
At the start the engineer is obviously seeding life on earth.

But as can be seen throughout the movie these engineers were into bio medical warfare. We were needed as hosts for the goo, the spaceship was on its way to earth in order to contaminate us.

Why is the question, we were ginny pigs to them that is all.

johnny_ultimate · 01-10-2012 1:46am

There's a Prometheus knocking around in Battlestar Galactica too.

Space travel and ancient Greece - an ever fruitful albeit frequently catastrophic relationship.

pixelburp · 01-10-2012 7:48am

wampyrus77 wrote: »

Prometheus the movie should sued by stargate sg1 because stargate spaceship is also called Prometheus

lol, what? You're joking I presume / hope.

Mickeroo · 01-10-2012 1:09pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There's a Prometheus knocking around in Battlestar Galactica too.

Space travel and ancient Greece - an ever fruitful albeit frequently catastrophic relationship.

Dam Simmons' books ftw!

pixelburp wrote: »

lol, what? You're joking I presume / hope.

Probably not I'm afraid.

norrie rugger · 01-10-2012 2:05pm

Duggy747 wrote: »

making no sense like the Biologist being so happy to touch the hissing mutated worm:

I am a biologist and I would have been uber-excited to see the space cobra.
Would I have tried to touch/catch it with my bare hands?? Are you frikken mental????

I do not care how excited you would be, you would not risk something like that and all of your training would have prepped to handle the situation

norrie rugger · 01-10-2012 2:15pm

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ES_mgF1_9w

I always found that a bit jarring as, a few seasons previous, Jack had stated that he never watched Star Trek

Duggy747 · 01-10-2012 2:49pm

Just watched the alternative scenes.

First scene with all the engineers doesn't really add anything, they're there a few seconds and then it carrys on as normal as the one drinks the goo. Feels more at home in a Star Trek movie, to be honest.

The scene were Milburn finds the slighty mutated worms covered in the black goo is interesting and should've been left in the final cut. Explains his eagerness to touch the hammerpede a lot better though the scene should have been longer.

Shaw and Holloway bedroom scene is extended, doesn't really add much except a longer look at Holloway being nervous after seeing the worm in his eye.

The alternative Alien Fifield scene I actually really like. CGI wasn't complete so his movement is jerky but the design of him was much, much better than what we got. Extremely Alien design to him with his stretched translusent head, elongated limbs and his feet are like a Xenomorphs. If they had ironed out his movements (which they would have had they gone with this version) and used some inventive human / alien screams (there's only stock sounds) it would've looked great. He still jumps around like a mad chimp, though, but I really liked it.

I was also right about one of Weyland's men dying in the attack and then suddenly showing up again outside of his bedroom as it shows Fifield grabbing him :pac: Vindication as it had bugged me since I saw the movie whether I was crazy or not.

The Paradise scene is more or less similar to what we got in the final cut except Shaw is a lot more hostile and vicious to David. She's extremely bitter and pissed off in this version.

All in all, the deleted scenes wouldn't have added much if anything to the actual film bar Milburn's worm discovery. I would've preferred Alien Fifield here rather than the zombie version we got, definitely had a more Xenomorph quality to it.

Mickeroo · 01-10-2012 2:54pm

We don't get a subtitled conversation between David and the engineer then?

Duggy747 · 01-10-2012 2:57pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

We don't get a subtitled conversation between David and the engineer then?

There is a 2 or 3 minute clip but the video I saw didn't have it. It only had a handful of them.

Liamalone · 01-10-2012 3:02pm

Saw it last night, poor show

krudler · 01-10-2012 3:18pm

Duggy747 wrote: »

The alternative Alien Fifield scene I actually really like. CGI wasn't complete so his movement is jerky but the design of him was much, much better than what we got. Extremely Alien design to him with his stretched translusent head, elongated limbs and his feet are like a Xenomorphs. If they had ironed out his movements (which they would have had they gone with this version) and used some inventive human / alien screams (there's only stock sounds) it would've looked great. He still jumps around like a mad chimp, though, but I really liked it.

I liked it from the pic posted earlier, his suit looks like a xenomorph skeleton, the raised parts around his neck look like the parts of an alien, and his elongated head, was much better than the zombie looking guy in the final cut pity they didnt finish the cgi for it.

the_monkey · 01-10-2012 4:05pm

What about the "Xeno" at the end ? still the same ****e ?

the_monkey · 01-10-2012 7:47pm

Also , all these extra scenes are they just as seperate deleted scenes on the bluray , or can you play a whole Extended cut on it?

Arciphel · 02-10-2012 3:28pm

The extra/alternative scenes aren't edited into the film, they are seperate extras on the Bluray release from what I can gather. You do get an extended scene of them waking up the last engineer, there is a conversation and he does talk as well. David also tells the audience what he says to the engineer and Weyland says some further dialogue which definitely better explains why the engineer reacts the way he/she does.

The extended scene with Shaw in the medpod and the engineer coming after her I thought was very very good. Maybe I am in the minority here, I know Ridley Scott said in an interview that the notion of her taking an axe to the engineer somehow diminished him, but it didn't come across that way. I thought it was very reminiscent of the scene in the Narcissus (the lifeboat of the Nostromo) from the end of Alien. It would have been even better if they had included it in the final film with full effects, music etc.

However, I think the biggest mistake they made was cutting out the alternate scene where Janek comes to Vicker's quarters after she has killed Holloway. In that scene Janek reveals a little bit of his military past and tells a story about a mission he was on before which explains his comment later on to Shaw in the theatrical cut of why he thinks this planet is an armoury and a research station for weapons. I thought it really fleshed out some of the themes of the film and I also made Vickers a bit more 3 dimensional than she appeared in the theatrical cut of the film. Why they left it out I don't know

I heard over on another forum that somebody is doing a fan edit which will be called the "Weyland Investors Cut" and he is going to have a go at editing the extended scenes back into the theatrical release, would be interested to see that but it still isn't going to make this film what we were hoping for....

the_monkey · 03-10-2012 8:45pm

one other thing, are the extra scenes in 3d only ? seems only available on the 3d bluRay ? :S

bullvine · 04-10-2012 8:54am

One other thing that really annoyed me was when David took out the ampule and the drop of black goo was on his finger, you think he would have ran some tests or analysis under a microscope like what Ash or Bishop did in the Alien movies to find out what exactly it was.

Instead of just infecting one of the crew, try and find out was it a virus or the like.

Sin City · 04-10-2012 8:24pm

bullvine wrote: »

One other thing that really annoyed me was when David took out the ampule and the drop of black goo was on his finger, you think he would have ran some tests or analysis under a microscope like what Ash or Bishop did in the Alien movies to find out what exactly it was.

Instead of just infecting one of the crew, try and find out was it a virus or the like.

Ash and Bishop were newer models, Old versions dont tend to be as good

:D

Bullseye1 · 04-10-2012 8:50pm

Just checked the price of the BD in Xtravision €19.99 for the single disc version with digital copy. The RRP price on the collectors edition was €34.99. What is the price in HMV? The collectors edition is £20 from amazon.

Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

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Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538