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Website Designers who just use Joomla/Wordpress

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Comments

  • #52
    tomED
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭tomED


    charybdis wrote: »
    Looking through the last five pages or so of threads I can't see anything I wouldn't class as "Beginner", with the possible exception of the thread about the decision to abandon XHTML 2 which has no replies.

    A better way to divide the forum would probably be "Beginner" and "Inane".

    I'm genuinely having trouble identifying any sort of discussion that isn't a product of groupthink or help vampires. The only recent thread that contained any sort of meaningful discussion relevant to the field was locked without resolution or agreement at the request of one of the arguing parties. If people who actually have information worth imparting and are generous enough with their time to do so, only to have their efforts truncated because someone of differing opinion decides they've had enough of an argument and doesn't feel like letting it continue without them, they're not going to be encouraged to offer assistance to others.







    Furthermore, this "I'm going to post purely to flatly dismiss what someone else has said without expounding my reasons for doing so" is pretty damn retarded. Apart from being disrespectful to others, it demonstrates your own deficits in argument and understanding.

    Great post!

    I hate that word retarded being used though! :)


  • #53
    Pixelcraft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Pixelcraft


    Maybe beginner and advanced is the wrong wording, maybe professional/industry and amateur/hobbyist - the problem being though, who decides who falls into which category?


  • #54
    Webmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    Pixelcraft wrote: »
    Maybe beginner and advanced is the wrong wording, maybe professional/industry and amateur/hobbyist - the problem being though, who decides who falls into which category?
    Industry could also be classified as amateur sometimes :p


  • #55
    Pixelcraft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Pixelcraft


    hence my last point!


  • #56
    Saruman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    I have used joomla and wordpress. Mostly I do not charge or if I do I make very little money. Only one proper paying customer. Its only a hobby for me to be honest and a way to make a little extra money.
    I would not be good enough to go professional and I am not sure I would want to.
    I know a little HTML, little javascript, little flash animation and enough to get by.

    There is no problem for a pro to use joomla, it is a way to keep the cost down and the customer is paying for the persons time. If I was a pro I would not ne worried that the customer will go make their own site if they find out you are using Joomla, for one thing they would have no idea how to even install the thing unless they are lucky and stumble across a host that uses fantastico or something similar to install it in a few clicks.

    Also you can not just stick up a website with joomla with no knowledge and you have to have some html experience so you can change banners etc.


  • #57
    bSlick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭bSlick


    This forum doesn't have enough traffic to be splitting it imo.


  • #58
    ocallagh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭ocallagh


    charybdis wrote: »
    Looking through the last five pages or so of threads I can't see anything I wouldn't class as "Beginner", with the possible exception of the thread about the decision to abandon XHTML 2 which has no replies.
    I agree. I've been a user on boards for a few years now (mainly post in the poker forum). I decided since I have 10 years+ web dev experience I would start contributing to the web dev forum. I was hoping to have intelligent dicsussions with other like minded developers about new technologies, bounce ideas off others, possibly make some contacts and in general become part of an Irish community of web developers. Instead this forum has a huge amount of beginner threads, a lot of disgruntled 'developers' who manage to turn most threads into an argument of sorts and a very small amount of helpful contributors. I admit I fell into that 'disgruntled' category in this thread, but NN managed to bring the worst out of me! Anyway, I'm close to being done with this forum and it's a pity because I reckon the same has happened to dozens of developers over the years that attempted to take part in this forum. That is the reason it is a beginners forum, the lack of advanced threads does not imply an advanced forum won't fill. I think it will given time and proper moderating


  • #59
    Webmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,579 ✭✭✭Webmonkey


    Maybe we should create a forum for actual web developers so we can build a network. Perhaps, have it so you must request access to post, but let it open to view.


  • #60
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    If you have suggestions for the forum, can we take them to the Feedback forum please? I'd rather this was not derailed any further.


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  • #61
    smemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭smemon


    I think one of the major factors we're overlooking is that open source allows a client to go elsewhere when they want upgrades or tweaks. If you're talking about joomla or wordpress there's a good chance the client can actually do things for themselves or get help online - for FREE. That words scares developers.

    With a custom solution, a client is basically locked in to working with the one company and therefore they've no choice but to pay whatever said company is looking for.

    Yes, if i'm a company and want a website built, i can pay €10k and get a beautiful custom designed and coded system - 100% unqiue.

    IF the site could be built using joomla or wordpress, why would i bother paying €10k? What do i get apart from knowing my system is custom built? And that's not necessarily a good thing either - wordpress plugin developers, theme designers etc... are two a penny so it will cost me much less to add new features.

    Hiring an outsider to look at / enhance a custom built solution will take an awful lot of time... new database structure, new code, template structure to get used to etc...

    I'm not saying wordpress and joomla should be used for 100% of projects, but they're more than adequate for the vast majority of brochure / basic sites out there.

    Leave cash out of it - what benefits the client more? Open source or custom built? I'd say a marriage of the two, so that the client gets a custom *looking* site whilst being able to upgrade, add features, control the site with all the bells and whistles an open source solution like joomla or wordpress can offer.


  • #62
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    There seems to be a certain amount of snobbery when it comes to CMS, what difference does it make how the site was built if the end results are what you wanted?

    Tim M-U wrote: »
    Im just afraid that if a customer finds out im using a free joomla software, they might think of createing a website by themselves.
    Well sell them a joomla book and wish them good luck. I think you'll find they still want you to make the site. As easy and all as the likes of joomla might seem to you (or anyone in this particular forum) it's still way beyond the average pc user. Be up front and tell them whats happening, tell them you'll set it all up and by using the site they'll gradually learn enough to become self sufficient, they probably never will become self sufficient but will like the thought of not having to pay out for further updates when buying initially.


  • #63
    Pixelcraft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Pixelcraft


    IF all your bringing to the table as a web designer is that you know how to install joomla, then pick another industry.


  • #64
    EZeeBOS
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭EZeeBOS


    There is a huge amount of work involved making a wordpress or joomla template from scratch. You would have to charge megabucks for a totally customised WP or joomla site because the design and grachics are easy enough but then ya have to go coding php too.


  • #65
    EZeeBOS
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭EZeeBOS


    Tim M-U wrote: »
    hi

    I use coffeecup site designer, (coffeecup.com ). Its great! theres a ftp loader too built in!.


    I use to use CoffeeCup and found the preview tab very handy as you dont have to save the page every time you want to preview it in a browser.

    I'm gone back using Dreamweaver. It's the king of code. I think its worth the money.


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