RTA 2014

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 7:37pm #1

Just needed to inquire about a summons I received today, I'm not looking for legal advice. Basically I was in an RTA in the summer of 2014, I was nearly killed. The other guy was in the wrong but on the summons I received today, his car reg is on it. Did I get the summons by mistake that was meant for him, because for the life of me I cannot understand why I am being summoned to court!? I have never put a foot wrong in all my life and this fella nearly killed me at a T-junction. Have they made a mistake or is this normal.

I don't understand the legal system.

coylemj · 13-04-2015 8:29pm

It sounds like a witness summons. The summons typically outlines what the other guy is charged with and that often includes the fact that he was driving car reg no xxx nnn.

Were you driving a car or on foot? The fact that the other guy's registration is on the summons means that it's almost certain that he has been summonsed (as the defendant) to answer a charge of dangerous or careless driving and you are being summonsed as a prosecution witness.

Is there any mention of the word 'witness' on the summons?

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 8:44pm

coylemj wrote: »

It sounds like a witness summons. The summons typically outlines what the other guy is charged with and that often includes the fact that he was driving car reg no xxx nnn.

Were you driving a car or on foot? The fact that the other guy's registration is on the summons means that it's almost certain that he has been summonsed (as the defendant) to answer a charge of dangerous or careless driving and you are being summonsed as a prosecution witness.

Is there any mention of the word 'witness' on the summons?

No mention of witness , just Garda prosecution under section 53 (1) but the car registration is his, including excessive speed, I was doing about 20km turning in the junction, but it says they want to prosecute me for driving the vehicle in question.

coylemj · 13-04-2015 8:51pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

No mention of witness , just Garda prosecution under section 53 (1) but the car registration is his, including excessive speed, I was doing about 20km turning in the junction, but it says they want to prosecute me for driving the vehicle in question.

That's dangerous driving. It is just possible that you have been summonsed as the defendant and the Gardai put the other guy's registration number on the summons by mistake. The judge can fix that on the day so it won't get you off if that's what happened.

Do you know anyone in the legal business or any member of the Gardai? You could show it to them and ask them if its a defendant or witness summons. Or you could simply call into your local Garda station, show it to them and they'll quickly tell you. If it's a defendant summons, you definitely need a solicitor.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 8:56pm

coylemj wrote: »

That's dangerous driving. It is just possible that you have been summonsed as the defendant and the Gardai put the other guy's registration number on the summons by mistake. The judge can fix that on the day so it won't get you off if that's what happened.

Do you know anyone in the legal business or any member of the Gardai? You could show it to them and ask them if its a defendant or witness summons. If it's a defendant summons, you definitely need a solicitor.

I have a solicitor, literally handed this at 6Pm today by the local gardai. But it clearly states that xxxxxx vehicle caused the accident, which is the other party's car, not mine. Have they muddled it up?

coylemj · 13-04-2015 9:39pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

I have a solicitor, literally handed this at 6Pm today by the local gardai. But it clearly states that xxxxxx vehicle caused the accident, which is the other party's car, not mine. Have they muddled it up?

Since you can't definitively say that it's a witness statement, I have to err on the side of caution and say that it's just possible that it's a defendant summons.

Did you meet up with a Garda after the accident and make any kind of written statement?

I addressed the issue of the registration number in my previous post.

xxtippchickxx · 13-04-2015 9:40pm

Just ring your local garda station theyll sort it but if it was a witness statement it would be written on it,cus if it was a mix-up by the gardai the day in court the judge could throw it out cus of wrong information best of luck hope ur on the mend

coylemj · 13-04-2015 9:52pm

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

Just ring your local garda station theyll sort it but if it was a witness statement it would be written on it,cus if it was a mix-up by the gardai the day in court the judge could throw it out cus of wrong information best of luck hope ur on the mend

That is not necessarily the case, the judge has wide discretion on the day and the reg. no. of the car would be considered a minor detail that could be changed, literally by the stroke of his pen.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 9:57pm

coylemj wrote: »

That is not necessarily the case, the judge has wide discretion on the day and the reg. no. of the car would be considered a minor detail that could be changed, literally by the stroke of his pen.

Feck, it wasn't my fault, he T-boned me, looks like I have a fight on my hands

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 9:59pm

coylemj wrote: »

Since you can't definitively say that it's a witness statement, I have to err on the side of caution and say that it's just possible that it's a defendant summons.

Did you meet up with a Garda after the accident and make any kind of written statement?

I addressed the issue of the registration number in my previous post.

Yep made the statement

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:01pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Yep made the statement

That suggests that you are a witness, can you read the summons again and see if you can decipher if you are turning up to answer the S.53(1) charge or if they want you there as a witness.

Is the other guy's name on the summons as well as yours?

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:05pm

coylemj wrote: »

That suggests that you are a witness, can you read the summons again and see if you can decipher if you are turning up to answer the S.53(1) charge or if they want you there as a witness.

Is the other guy's name on the summons as well as yours?

Nope. Just section 53(1), and that said vehicle caused the accident, which isn't mine, it belongs to the guy that hit me. And they are trying to prosecute.

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:18pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Nope. Just section 53(1), and that said vehicle caused the accident, which isn't mine, it belongs to the guy that hit me.

According to the courts.ie website, a district court witness summons will name the prosecutor (the prosecuting Garda), the accused (the person who is being prosecuted) and then it will state as follows..

YOU ARE HEREBY REQUIRED to attend at the sitting of the District Court to be held at ........... on the ... day of .... 19..., at .... .m. and on any day to which the hearing of these proceedings shall be adjourned, to give evidence on behalf of ..................... on the hearing of a complaint that the above-named accused did

then it will set out the charge, in this case the wording of S. 53(1)

The critical wording I have emboldened and the summons is also headed 'Witness Summons'. There really shouldn't be any doubt if it is a witness summons.

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/pagescurrent/9E9D26191F5E375E80257650003635D8

Edit: An 'ordinary' summons (to answer the charge as defendant) is worded as follows...

THIS IS TO COMMAND YOU to appear on the hearing of the said complaint at a sitting of the District Court for the court area and district aforesaid to be held at ............. on the ... day of ..... 19.., at ... a.m./p.m. to answer to the said complaint.

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/7ced286cd9c9b12a8025764f005944f9?OpenDocument

Pat Mustard · 13-04-2015 10:22pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Have they muddled it up?

Whether they did or not, you have been served with a summons for dangerous driving, which is not good news. In any event, you have handed the summons to your solicitor. Now it's up to him/her to speak to the guards and find out what's happening.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:24pm

They accused me with his car registration, speeding etc... Which I wasn't doing at a T junction

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:26pm

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Whether they did or not, you have been served with a summons for dangerous driving, which is not good news. In any event, you have handed the summons to your solicitor. Now it's up to him/her to speak to the guards and find out what's happening.

Absolute mess pat, I've never been in trouble in my life.

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:26pm

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Whether they did or not, you have been served with a summons for dangerous driving, which is not good news. In any event, you have handed the summons to your solicitor. Now it's up to him/her to speak to the guards and find out what's happening.

No, we still don't know what type of summons it is and he has not handed it to his solicitor, he said that he has a solicitor but the summons was only served at 6 p.m. today........

RTA2014 wrote: »

I have a solicitor, literally handed this at 6Pm today by the local gardai. But it clearly states that xxxxxx vehicle caused the accident, which is the other party's car, not mine. Have they muddled it up?

The fact that the other guy's reg. no is on the summons and that the OP has made a written statement strongly suggests that he is a witness.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:31pm

coylemj wrote: »

No, we still don't know what type of summons it is and he has not handed it to his solicitor, he said that he has a solicitor but the summons was only served at 6 p.m. today.

Attend district court at xxx xxxx 2015, really I don't know how I could be prosicuted ? I didn't brake the bloody lights, but the guards Want to go the whole hog, even though 1 year later after being T-boned, I have learned to walk again. Managed to keep my job as an engineer, mind boggles.

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:34pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Attend district court at xxx xxxx 2015, really I don't know how I could be prosicuted ? I didn't brake the bloody lights, but the guards Want to go the whole hog, even though 1 year later after being T-boned, I have learned to walk again. Managed to keep my job as an engineer, mind boggles.

Look at the summons and within the section which lists the date and time of the court, see if you can spot one of the following.....

'to give evidence .....'

OR

'to answer to the said complaint'

Pat Mustard · 13-04-2015 10:40pm

coylemj wrote: »

No, we still don't know what type of summons it is

Witness summonses don't tend to have car registrations on them.

Sure the OP can hand the summons to his solicitor tomorrow.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:40pm

coylemj wrote: »

Look at the summons and within the section which lists the date and time of the court, see if you can spot one of the following.....

'to give evidence .....'

OR

'to answer to the said complaint'

It doesn't say either

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:43pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

It doesn't say either

Is there a header 'Summons' visible at the top of the page?

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:44pm

coylemj wrote: »

Is there a header 'Summons' visible at the top of the page?

Yep section 53(1) but it gave his car reg as being at fault, but I was handed the summons

coylemj · 13-04-2015 10:46pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Yep section 53(1)

You need to hand that to your solicitor ASAP.

RTA2014 · 13-04-2015 10:49pm

coylemj wrote: »

You need to hand that to your solicitor ASAP.

Done. 30 mins ago and I pointed out the vehicle in question was has, not mine, his reg was on the summons

RTA2014 · 14-04-2015 9:15am

Just had a good look over it, it says that I am the accused, it also said I was driving his car. Anyway I'm phoning my solicitor now to see what the story is.

kilp10 · 14-04-2015 11:03am

Just call the Garda you were dealing with for it! Am in a similar situation to you where I'd be summoned as a witness against the other driver. If I've had any questions at all in relation to the accident or upcoming case, I've just called the station and spoken to him. Pretty easy....

At the time of giving a statement, did the Garda indicate to you that it was a witness statement or a caution statement? Witness statement, they wouldn't be planning charges, a caution statement would be with a possibility of prosecution

coylemj · 14-04-2015 1:27pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Just had a good look over it, it says that I am the accused, it also said I was driving his car. Anyway I'm phoning my solicitor now to see what the story is.

Sounds like the Garda mixed up the names, I suspect the other guy got your witness summons. Your solicitor will be able to handle it, it will probably involve the issuing of new summons and the case against you being struck out.

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 6:20pm

coylemj wrote: »

Sounds like the Garda mixed up the names, I suspect the other guy got your witness summons. Your solicitor will be able to handle it, it will probably involve the issuing of new summons and the case against you being struck out.

Don't know, but I had to hire a technical barrister, expensive stuff @ €2,500, per hour. SC are expensive, this is turning into a nightmare

hullaballoo · 25-04-2015 7:27pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Don't know, but I had to hire a technical barrister, expensive stuff @ €2,500, per hour. SC are expensive, this is turning into a nightmare

What?

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 7:43pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

What?

Yep, if I want to fight the charge and summons, I've been advised to get the best technical barrister, the range went from €1,000, for JC, up to €2,500 for SC, I chose SC. I didn't cause the bloody accident, so I feel I need the arsenal going into this

ratracer · 25-04-2015 8:04pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Yep, if I want to fight the charge and summons, I've been advised to get the best technical barrister, the range went from €1,000, for JC, up to €2,500 for SC, I chose SC. I didn't cause the bloody accident, so I feel I need the arsenal going into this

If/when you win, will you be awarded costs?

Little CuChulainn · 25-04-2015 8:42pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Yep, if I want to fight the charge and summons, I've been advised to get the best technical barrister, the range went from €1,000, for JC, up to €2,500 for SC, I chose SC. I didn't cause the bloody accident, so I feel I need the arsenal going into this

Did you get someone to ring the Garda and make sure it wasn't an error before taking on a ridiculously overpriced barrister?

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 8:42pm

ratracer wrote: »

If/when you win, will you be awarded costs?

Yep, all barrister costs are paid upfront, then the civil case can continue, I loose this and I'm fecked, I'd love to know where they got the so called evidence from?

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 8:44pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Did you get someone to ring the Garda and make sure it wasn't an error before taking on a ridiculously overpriced barrister?

Nope, I didn't, do you think I should?

Little CuChulainn · 25-04-2015 8:46pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Nope, I didn't, do you think I should?

If your solicitor was in any way competent that is the first thing he would have clarified seeing as how the vehicle registration number on the summons belonged to someone else. It's very unlikely you will get costs returned to you in a criminal traffic matter.

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 8:52pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If your solicitor was in any way competent that is the first thing he would have clarified seeing as how the vehicle registration number on the summons belonged to someone else. It's very unlikely you will get costs returned to you in a criminal traffic matter.

Well we will see, my name is on the summons, I'm very surprised that I got the summons I the first place, I was the one that was T-boned and nearly killed. The summons says "accused"

Little CuChulainn · 25-04-2015 8:54pm

RTA2014 wrote: »

Well we will see, my name is on the summons, I'm very surprised that I got the summons I the first place, I was the one that was T-boned and nearly killed. The summons says "accused"

It's your money.

RTA2014 · 25-04-2015 8:56pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's your money.

Well I was told to go in armed, not free legal aid,this came from a family member.

godtabh · 26-04-2015 9:22am

RTA2014 wrote: »

Well I was told to go in armed, not free legal aid,this came from a family member.

pick the low hanging fruit first.

Step 1 contact Gardai to confirm it wasnt a mistake.

Step 2 Contact solicitor if you cant clarify step 1.

Seems simple

Ideo · 26-04-2015 9:35am

RTA2014 wrote: »

Well I was told to go in armed, not free legal aid,this came from a family member.

What did your solicitor say in relation to hiring the barrister? You said that you hired the barrister on the back of a family members recommendation, are they involved in the legal system?

Feels like this whole discussion is going around and around. Post a pic of the summons, redact all personal details (name dates car reg etc..) and then people can come to an accurate conclusion on what type of summons it is.

hullaballoo · 26-04-2015 1:43pm

OP has closed their account determining the value of this thread; thread closed.

RTA 2014

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