Subway charging extra if you use debit card

Flaccus · 22-05-2015 3:11pm #1

Subway off Cruises St. in Limerick charge an extra 30c if you pay for your sub with a debit card. No signs up anywhere. I obviously declined to pay after I was informed of this charge once the sub was made, and instead went to Subway on O'Connell St. where no such charge applies. I know Subway is franchised so there can be slight differences between them, but are they allowed pass this extra charge on to the customer or are they in breach of some rule (e.g. agreement with their payment provider).

The_Pretender · 22-05-2015 3:30pm

As of the EU Directive brought in last year they cannot charge more than it costs to process the card payment. This would be more so to stop the likes of Ticketmaster who charged several Euro for paying this way for concert tickets.

So yes, they can charge you for using your card because it costs them to process it, but they can only charge up to the amount it costs for them to have the payment processed.

Forest Demon · 22-05-2015 3:31pm

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

Flaccus · 22-05-2015 3:34pm

Righto. I just won't buy from them in future so. Thanks.

The_Pretender · 22-05-2015 3:35pm

Forest Demon wrote: »

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

There's a big difference between what your local shop pays to process card payments and what a franchise like subway pays unless your local shop is one of one of the big franchise chains.

It's usually a case of small shops paying small monthly licensing fees and then big fees per transaction while for big companies like Tesco with huge amounts of people paying by card it's large monthly licensing fees and small fees per transaction.

Flaccus · 22-05-2015 3:36pm

Forest Demon wrote: »

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

Yes, a petrol station I used frequent recently started charging for under 14 euro as well. I was only caught once.

delahuntv · 22-05-2015 4:39pm

Forest Demon wrote: »

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

No - every debit card transaction has the same cost. Whether it be a €1 transaction or a €10,000 transaction.

A small store will be charged about 20c-25c + vat, so 30c is about right if a place does charge.

A busy store will negotiate a rate of 10c-15c

jimmii · 22-05-2015 4:47pm

delahuntv wrote: »

No - every debit card transaction has the same cost. Whether it be a €1 transaction or a €10,000 transaction.

A small store will be charged about 20c-25c + vat, so 30c is about right if a place does charge.

A busy store will negotiate a rate of 10c-15c

Thats not always true some companies have a cut off at which point the rate changes on debit cards and some companies charge all cards at a % instead of a flat rate.

jimmii · 22-05-2015 4:48pm

There was a thread not so long ago complaining about not being able to use a card somewhere for smaller purchases and the general consensus was that people thought being able to pay a fee for smaller transactions was perfectly fine. I wouldn't have expected you would have to pay it in a brand name place like that though.

Mr. G · 22-05-2015 11:50pm

Forest Demon wrote: »

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

€1 is colossal. Here's what the minimum with AIB is:
25c per debit card transaction
2.5% on credit cards.
Plus rental for terminal.

However if a shop negotiates with their payment carrier they should be able to get contactless payments (under €15) for about 10c and credit cards at 1.5%. I think it varies though but shops can get them cheaper. They vary a lot but €1 per €14 transaction can't be the case, even with AIB.

When I looked into it I found Payzone were the most expensive.

Honestly I avoid places that charge for the transaction, I think it's stingy. Cash is king as they say, even if it's a pain

the_syco · 22-05-2015 11:56pm

Flaccus wrote: »

Yes, a petrol station I used frequent recently started charging for under 14 euro as well. I was only caught once.

Any idea how much it is for the "under €15 wireless card transactions" are?

Oryx · 23-05-2015 2:39pm

Forest Demon wrote: »

I think anything under 14 euro is a 1 euro charge for them. That's what my local shop told me anyway.

Your local shop need a new card processing company in that case. Never heard of a fee like that. 25c or less per transaction depending on the service provider. Some machines dial out for each transaction so maybe they were factoring that in, but the charge to you is still excessive.

goz83 · 24-05-2015 9:43am

I use Elavon. I only put through a few transactions a month, maybe 30, or less. They range from €25 to €200.....but on occasion, it could be a €10 transaction. I would never pass on the card fee to my clients. Tbh, I am not even sure what the fee is, but I usually get charged about €50 a month with around €30 of it for a mobile terminal I can anywhere in Ireland. I'm with Elavon.

I also use sumup for a different business. Their little terminal is €80 one off fee and the cost per transaction is 2%. I would use them for my main business, but they dont have the ability to charge a customer remotely and the customer must be present, with their card.

uck51js9zml2yt · 24-05-2015 10:43am

goz83 wrote: »

I use Elavon. I only put through a few transactions a month, maybe 30, or less. They range from €25 to €200.....but on occasion, it cTry a €10 transaction. I would never pass on the card fee to my clients. Tbh, I am not even sure what the fee is, but I usually get charged about €50 a month with around €30 of it for a mobile terminal I can anywhere in Ireland. I'm with Elavon.

I also use sumup for a different business. Their little terminal is €80 one off fee and the cost per transaction is 2%. I would use them for my main business, but they dont have the ability to charge a customer remotely and the customer must be present, with their card.

try realex.

jimmii · 24-05-2015 12:39pm

goz83 wrote: »

I use Elavon. I only put through a few transactions a month, maybe 30, or less. They range from €25 to €200.....but on occasion, it could be a €10 transaction. I would never pass on the card fee to my clients. Tbh, I am not even sure what the fee is, but I usually get charged about €50 a month with around €30 of it for a mobile terminal I can anywhere in Ireland. I'm with Elavon.

I also use sumup for a different business. Their little terminal is €80 one off fee and the cost per transaction is 2%. I would use them for my main business, but they dont have the ability to charge a customer remotely and the customer must be present, with their card.

Stripe is a handy one to use with sumup. I use sumup for smaller transactions and as a back up and stripe for customer not present.

Pirates Ale · 25-05-2015 4:24pm

goz83 wrote: »

I use Elavon. I only put through a few transactions a month, maybe 30, or less. They range from €25 to €200.....but on occasion, it could be a €10 transaction. I would never pass on the card fee to my clients. Tbh, I am not even sure what the fee is, but I usually get charged about €50 a month with around €30 of it for a mobile terminal I can anywhere in Ireland. I'm with Elavon.

I also use sumup for a different business. Their little terminal is €80 one off fee and the cost per transaction is 2%. I would use them for my main business, but they dont have the ability to charge a customer remotely and the customer must be present, with their card.

Elavon now offer a similar 'pay as you go' set up like sum up. Its €120 for the terminal, and you can do card not present transactions on it.
I have no experience of it though.

jimmii · 25-05-2015 4:41pm

Pirates Ale wrote: »

Elavon now offer a similar 'pay as you go' set up like sum up. Its €120 for the terminal, and you can do card not present transactions on it.
I have no experience of it though.

Thats handy to know hadn't heart about that cheers!

aon1998 · 12-12-2015 12:05pm

Sorry to bring up an old thread but can shops still charge 25c for purchases under €5 with the new caps on charges to retailers for accepting cards. I think it's 0.1%. So 25c wouldn't be 0.1% of €4 so this would not be allowed under the EU?

jimmii · 12-12-2015 12:10pm

aon1998 wrote: »

Sorry to bring up an old thread but can shops still charge 25c for purchases under €5 with the new caps on charges to retailers for accepting cards. I think it's 0.1%. So 25c wouldn't be 0.1% of €4 so this would not be allowed under the EU?

Thats the wholesale rate not the rate the shops pay. A lot of shops will still be paying a flat rate for debit cards it should encourage some shops to stop charging it but I am sure some will keep it on. We use two processors one has reduced the rate but the other hasn't so not all of them have passed the savings on yet.

GerardKeating · 12-12-2015 2:19pm

delahuntv wrote: »

No - every debit card transaction has the same cost. Whether it be a €1 transaction or a €10,000 transaction.

Kind of, but in addition to the per click fee, they will might also have a monthly terminal rental and maybe an account maintaince fee, and (for very low volume) retailers be as much as the transaction fees.

finbarrk · 15-12-2015 5:07pm

There should be more than 30c charged for those small purchases. Ridiculous paying for the likes of a Subway order with a card. Holding up everyone else while the card is being processed. Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

salamanca22 · 15-12-2015 5:10pm

finbarrk wrote: »

There should be more than 30c charged for those small purchases. Ridiculous paying for the likes of a Subway order with a card. Holding up everyone else while the card is being processed. Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

Ridiculous. It takes about 20 seconds to use my card. If you cannot wait that long then I don't know what to say really.

Physical cash is on the way out. It might not be this decade or the next but eventually we will all be paying cashless for the majority of our purchases.

Graham · 15-12-2015 5:12pm

finbarrk wrote: »

Holding up everyone else while the card is being processed. Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

I'm struggling to imagine what takes you so long to complete a card purchase that you'd cause anyone behind you any significant sort of delay.

Dodge · 15-12-2015 5:13pm

finbarrk wrote: »

Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

Takes the same amount of time to process those payments as the smaller amounts...

ThisRegard · 15-12-2015 5:15pm

And with contactless it's more or less quicker than a non exact amount cash payment.

ohnonotgmail · 17-12-2015 12:25pm

Graham wrote: »

I'm struggling to imagine what takes you so long to complete a card purchase that you'd cause anyone behind you any significant sort of delay.

well first of all you have to find the card because they dont seem to realise that they need to take their card out until they have been told the total amount. Though to be honest the same people who cause delays using cards would probably cause the same delays using cash

Graham · 17-12-2015 12:34pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the same people who cause delays using cards would probably cause the same delays using cash

+1

jimmii · 17-12-2015 12:36pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well first of all you have to find the card because they dont seem to realise that they need to take their card out until they have been told the total amount. Though to be honest the same people who cause delays using cards would probably cause the same delays using cash

With cash those people tend to take longer as they have a root around to see if they have change at the bottom of their pocket then their bag then decide no I'll just pay with this 20.

Geuze · 17-12-2015 1:14pm

finbarrk wrote: »

There should be more than 30c charged for those small purchases. Ridiculous paying for the likes of a Subway order with a card. Holding up everyone else while the card is being processed. Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

We need to move to a cashless economy to reduce tax evasion, fraud, robberies, reduce costs, etc.

To encourage this, transactions fees need to fall a lot, which is happening, maybe not fast enough.

It's not ridiculous, it's the future.

L1011 · 17-12-2015 1:56pm

finbarrk wrote: »

There should be more than 30c charged for those small purchases. Ridiculous paying for the likes of a Subway order with a card. Holding up everyone else while the card is being processed. Personally I think card purchases should be for maybe over €30 of items.

I'm pretty certain that you wouldn't be physically capable of paying cash as quick as a contactless takes in my local Subway.

rubadub · 17-12-2015 6:30pm

finbarrk wrote: »

There should be more than 30c charged for those small purchases.

I don't see them holding up much, in most shops its the coin counters who take longer.

I do think there should be a surcharge though, I like to pay my own way and not have others subsidise it. Some are calling the shops stingy, but I think it stingy to expect others to pay for you.

In other threads people have said that cash payments also cost a shop to process, so the surcharge should really be the difference in that, it could also be a discount, I have no problem which way it goes. If the difference is minute it is probably not worth the bother though.

jimmii · 17-12-2015 6:39pm

rubadub wrote: »

I don't see them holding up much, in most shops its the coin counters who take longer.

I do think there should be a surcharge though, I like to pay my own way and not have others subsidise it. Some are calling the shops stingy, but I think it stingy to expect others to pay for you.

In other threads people have said that cash payments also cost a shop to process, so the surcharge should really be the difference in that, it could also be a discount, I have no problem which way it goes. If the difference is minute it is probably not worth the bother though.

Getting change is 2.45% for us its such a sickener and then of course you pay to lodge cash too (0.45% + 0.35c per lodgement).

Its hard to work out the cost difference but it would basically be people paying with coin would get a small discount paying with €5/€10 no discount €20 a small charge and €50 the full cash deposit charge it would obviously get very confusing as each domination has a different value depending on how likely it is you can then give that on to another customer as change and not have to lodge it. I rarely lodge €5 or €10 notes it tends to balance itself out quite well.

Mick Murdock · 29-12-2015 2:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well first of all you have to find the card because they dont seem to realise that they need to take their card out until they have been told the total amount. Though to be honest the same people who cause delays using cards would probably cause the same delays using cash

This is very true. There's also an issue in a lot of stores where they have pitiful processing times. I know of a number of Centra stores who still don't have contactless terminals! It takes them about 45 seconds to process a card payment! It's not really an issue when it's younger people you are dealing with but when older people are trying to use self service checkouts and credit card terminals that's when the frustrations begin!

Subway are fully within their rights to pass the processing costs onto the consumer. Use cash for a €7 sandwich if you don't like it.

haveringchick · 31-12-2015 2:44am

I'm one of those people who was very slow at the till, still am bagging groceries, but the whole debit card thing has at least cut out my fumbling and mumbling with change

Flaccus · 01-01-2016 5:06am

Mick Murdock wrote: »

This is very true. There's also an issue in a lot of stores where they have pitiful processing times. I know of a number of Centra stores who still don't have contactless terminals! It takes them about 45 seconds to process a card payment! It's not really an issue when it's younger people you are dealing with but when older people are trying to use self service checkouts and credit card terminals that's when the frustrations begin!

Subway are fully within their rights to pass the processing costs onto the consumer. Use cash for a €7 sandwich if you don't like it.

Or go to a subway that doesn't charge for using cards. I often do not have cash on me. The Subway near Parnell Place in Cork do not charge and have contact less payment. Faster then using cash.

GerardKeating · 01-01-2016 3:02pm

Flaccus wrote: »

Or go to a subway that doesn't charge for using cards. I often do not have cash on me. The Subway near Parnell Place in Cork do not charge and have contact less payment. Faster then using cash.

All retail outlets charge the customer for the use of a card, either as a specific "extra" charge, or it is hidden in the price, but either way you do pay it. One might argue that making it a separate charge does allow one to avoid it by paying cash.

Arbie · 04-01-2016 12:07am

I asked the Banking and Payments Federation of Ireland (new name for IPSO) about this a few months ago.

They said that retailers are obliged to accept all cards under the brands they have signed up for - Visa, Mastercard, etc. - and that requiring a minimum transaction limit or charging a fee means the retailer is a breach of their terms and conditions.

BPFI has no regulatory/enforcement powers but are apparently trying to address it.

the groutch · 04-01-2016 11:30am

if they ever did enforce it you would see some small shops go cash only or remove product and services like newspapers, lotto or €5 phone top-ups.

Mick Murdock · 04-01-2016 1:03pm

Pro consumer anti business law. Ridiculous.

L1011 · 04-01-2016 1:39pm

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Pro consumer anti business law. Ridiculous.

Pretty much all consumer protections can be seen as that from the businesses side.

Cash handling costs and risks cost a lot more than people seem to realise, even business owners at times.

slimjimmc · 04-01-2016 3:57pm

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Pro consumer anti business law. Ridiculous.

The Visa agreement is not law, it's a simple service contract. If, as a business, you want to accept card payments (and benefit from a wider customer base/reduce cash handling costs) then you either accept the terms of the service or you don't sign up.

Flaccus · 07-01-2016 11:38pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

All retail outlets charge the customer for the use of a card, either as a specific "extra" charge, or it is hidden in the price, but either way you do pay it. One might argue that making it a separate charge does allow one to avoid it by paying cash.

A meatball marinara footlong with drink was 5 euro in Subway Cork Parnell Place....whether you pay cash or card

Same sub in Cruises St. Limerck was 5 euro cash, or 5 euro + charge if you use card.

Therefore the outfit in Cork do not have a charge hidden or otherwise.

GerardKeating · 08-01-2016 12:14pm

Flaccus wrote: »

A meatball marinara footlong with drink was 5 euro in Subway Cork Parnell Place....whether you pay cash or card

Same sub in Cruises St. Limerck was 5 euro cash, or 5 euro + charge if you use card.

Therefore the outfit in Cork do not have a charge hidden or otherwise.

And the Rent/Rates etc are the same for both units?

Either they change the customer (hidden or not) or it comes out of their profit margin.

Flaccus · 08-01-2016 6:30pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

And the Rent/Rates etc are the same for both units?

Either they change the customer (hidden or not) or it comes out of their profit margin.

Well you originally said "All retail outlets charge the customer for the use of a card, either as a specific "extra" charge, or it is hidden in the price, but either way you do pay it"

Now you have qualified this statement further with "or it comes out of their profit margin"

I could not care less about their rents or profit margins. The Subway franchises in Ireland I give my custom to charge the same price for a sub or at least the sub's that I like. I am making the point that one subway charges extra if you use a card, and the other one a couple hundred yards away does not. Therefore the one that does charge for using a card does not have a specific "extra" charge and neither is it hidden in the price. Therefore I choose to make my purchase in the one that does not charge for using a card.

Reminds me of the guy I used know who says the veg you get on a sub is not free as it's factored into the price. He never gets veg in his sub and claims he is subsidizing those that do get it, so his sub should be cheaper. LOL.

Dodge · 08-01-2016 6:34pm

Flaccus wrote: »

Subway franchises in Ireland charge the same price for a sub.

Not all Subways charge the same FWIW. Some add €2 to go for foot long, some add €2.20

Sorry to interrupt on the card charging...

Flaccus · 08-01-2016 6:36pm

Dodge wrote: »

Not all Subways charge the same FWIW. Some add €2 to go for foot long, some add €2.20

Sorry to interrupt on the card charging...

Didn't know that. I should therefore edit my statement to say the subways I visit charge the same

salamanca22 · 08-01-2016 10:37pm

Dodge wrote: »

Not all Subways charge the same FWIW. Some add €2 to go for foot long, some add €2.20

Sorry to interrupt on the card charging...

This is against their franchise agreement btw, They are bound to advertise uniform prices. I had to report a store that did this before after not mentioning it til the last second when the sandwich was already made and then got angry at me for refusing to pay. I got all the apologies in the world from corporate and a book of vouchers for free subs (Was about 10 of them if I recall correctly, some were for 6 inch, others footlongs)

I would not have reported them if the teller had not acted they way they did.

Subway charging extra if you use debit card

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