Eastern European Hoardes on The Way

creeper1 · 27-11-2013 4:48pm #1

The end of work restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians in on the way. The UK is worried about this and putting up some barriers such as deportation if any of them are caught begging or sleeping homeless.

Also there are plans to limit their access to welfare payments for six months after arriving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25114890

I wonder if Ireland will follow suit. I know Ireland was swamped by the Polish and other Eastern European nationalities during the tiger years.

Make no mistake this free movement of people rule that the EU has is very detrimental to low skilled workers. Maybe even all workers in western Europe.

alastair · 27-11-2013 4:53pm

creeper1 wrote: »

I wonder if Ireland will follow suit.

We did this last year. No sign of the hoardes so far. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 4:55pm

alastair wrote: »

We did this last year. No sign of the hoardes so far. :rolleyes:

It's hordes and try opening your eyes. :rolleyes:

SCOOP 64 · 27-11-2013 4:56pm

With Irelands situation at moment, high unemployment etc.., shame we cant closed the gates, but to keep rest of Europe happy, better welcome them with open arms.

"but what about all the Irish leaving to go to other country's"
just to jump the gun, before some body Else gets in and get it out the way.

alastair · 27-11-2013 4:58pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's hordes and try opening your eyes. :rolleyes:

Eh, no - it's not. Eyes wide open.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:00pm

5 posts in and 2 of them are on about spelling:rolleyes:

Yeah we have so much to worry about.

oscarBravo · 27-11-2013 5:01pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

...try opening your eyes. :rolleyes:

I have my eyes open. What am I supposed to be seeing?

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:04pm

ok

horde (hôrd, hrd)
n.
1. A large group or crowd; a swarm: a horde of mosquitoes. See Synonyms at crowd1.
2.
a. A nomadic Mongol tribe.
b. A nomadic tribe or group.

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 5:05pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I have my eyes open. What am I supposed to be seeing?

Well perhaps they haven't reached Westport yet but the South East is inundated with foreign nationals - especially Romanians.

stoneill · 27-11-2013 5:08pm

I hope social welfare are stocking up on baby buggies and smart phones to hand out to our new visitors.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:09pm

Joe Duffy will be inundated with irate callers

oscarBravo · 27-11-2013 5:10pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well perhaps they haven't reached Westport yet but the South East is inundated with foreign nationals - especially Romanians.

Inundated, eh? I hope you have plenty of sandbags.

stoneill wrote: »

I hope social welfare are stocking up on baby buggies and smart phones to hand out to our new visitors.

They don't get free cars any more? Times are hard indeed.

Riskymove · 27-11-2013 5:11pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well perhaps they haven't reached Westport yet but the South East is inundated with foreign nationals - especially Romanians.

They are in the EU and can come here freely

The "restrictions" mentioned above included that they have to live here for a year before being able to work. As mentioned this were dropped earlier this year

There were only 450 or so applications for a work permit in recent years from residents of these countries.

In our current climate, its unlikely we will see big numbers coming here for work.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:13pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well perhaps they haven't reached Westport yet but the South East is inundated with foreign nationals - especially Romanians.

This always makes me laugh.

What about all of those foreign nationals hordes that are swarming to Australia, America and Canada....you know the ones....from Ireland:rolleyes:

alastair · 27-11-2013 5:14pm

Meanwhile...

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 5:28pm

bumper234 wrote: »

This always makes me laugh.

What about all of those foreign nationals hordes that are swarming to Australia, America and Canada....you know the ones....from Ireland:rolleyes:

I'm glad you see something funny in it but why don't you compare like with like? The USA, Canada, Australia are vast countries capable of soaking up vast numbers of emigrants - Ireland isn't. We already have serious unemployment here and no need of further workers. I know it's not PC to question open borders and little or no control of who enters the country but I'm happy to.

Nodin · 27-11-2013 5:38pm

creeper1 wrote: »

The end of work restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians in on the way. The UK is worried about this and putting up some barriers such as deportation if any of them are caught begging or sleeping homeless.

Also there are plans to limit their access to welfare payments for six months after arriving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25114890

I wonder if Ireland will follow suit. .

Ireland has had restrictions on who can access welfare payments from the beginning.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:42pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm glad you see something funny in it but why don't you compare like with like? The USA, Canada, Australia are vast countries capable of soaking up vast numbers of emigrants - Ireland isn't. We already have serious unemployment here and no need of further workers. I know it's not PC to question open borders and little or no control of who enters the country but I'm happy to.

America has massive unemployment at the moment, is it ok for the Irish to head there and work? People will leave their countries in search of a better life for themselves and their families, Irish people seem to think that they should be the only ones allowed to do this.

Do we need 1000/10,000/50,000 people heading here? No! Can we stop it? No! Should we stop it? Only when we stop our own from doing the same thing.

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 5:45pm

bumper234 wrote: »

America has massive unemployment at the moment, is it ok for the Irish to head there and work? People will leave their countries in search of a better life for themselves and their families, Irish people seem to think that they should be the only ones allowed to do this.

Do we need 1000/10,000/50,000 people heading here? No! Can we stop it? No! Should we stop it? Only when we stop our own from doing the same thing.

Whatever, but try getting into Australia, Canada, USA etc with a criminal record...no such problem with someone from Eastern Europe coming to Ireland. You may have voted for this but I certainly didn't.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:48pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Whatever, but try getting into Australia, Canada, USA etc with a criminal record...no such problem with someone from Eastern Europe. You may have voted for this but I certainly didn't.

I never said I voted for this that's just you making an assumption. Like it or not there are open borders and your fellow Europeans have the right to travel to other EU countries and are entitled to the same rights and privileges that you enjoy.

alastair · 27-11-2013 5:48pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

You may have voted for this but I certainly didn't.

Well then - that seems like a compelling basis to roll back the referendum decisions that relate to EU membership.

Or, maybe you were just outvoted?

Nodin · 27-11-2013 5:49pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Whatever, but try getting into Australia, Canada, USA etc with a criminal record...no such problem with someone from Eastern Europe coming to Ireland. You may have voted for this but I certainly didn't.

You voted against every pro-EU party and treaty since the beginning?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 27-11-2013 5:53pm

bumper234 wrote: »

America has massive unemployment at the moment, is it ok for the Irish to head there and work?

No, unless they have a work permit, which are impossible to get unless you're working for an American mulitnational who can prove that the job cannot be filled by a US citizen.

Riskymove · 27-11-2013 5:57pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Whatever, but try getting into Australia, Canada, USA etc with a criminal record...no such problem with someone from Eastern Europe coming to Ireland. You may have voted for this but I certainly didn't.

Irish people with criminal records are allowed to live and work here

people from UK and France with criminal records can come here

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 5:59pm

deccurley wrote: »

No, unless they have a work permit, which are impossible to get unless you're working for an American mulitnational who can prove that the job cannot be filled by a US citizen.

Yup. Does every Irish person working I the US have a work visa and is there legally?

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 6:02pm

Riskymove wrote: »

Irish people with criminal records are allowed to live and work here

people from UK and France with criminal records can come here

That's what I said and I don't like it - okay?

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 6:04pm

Nodin wrote: »

You voted against every pro-EU party and treaty since the beginning?

I have voted NO to every European treaty since I've had the vote - circa 1978. Indeed, I've even posted evidence of some of my voting on Boards but don't ask me to find it now.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 6:05pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have voted NO to every European treaty since I've had the vote - circa 1978. Indeed, I've even posted evidence of some of my voting on Boards but don't ask me to find it now.

But the majority went against your wishes? Imagine that....democracy at work I suppose.

Riskymove · 27-11-2013 6:09pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

That's what I said and I don't like it - okay?

sure, its your opinion

its just you specifically mentioned Eastern Europeans with a criminal record

anyways, such issues have little to do with the OP's post

Nodin · 27-11-2013 6:09pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have voted NO to every European treaty since I've had the vote - circa 1978. Indeed, I've even posted evidence of some of my voting on Boards but don't ask me to find it now.

Well done. However your side lost, and by some margin.

Take comfort in the fact that there are people in Spain, France, Denmark and the Netherlands who are probably none too happy about Irish citizens with criminal records being able to arrive on their shores either.

Scofflaw · 27-11-2013 6:11pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

That's what I said and I don't like it - okay?

A criminal record doesn't bar you from immigration to the US, Australia, etc. A substantial criminal record can be grounds for denying a visa, but not the mere existence of a criminal record.

And of course people with quite outrageous criminal records can move here from the UK, and vice-versa.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 6:13pm

Nodin wrote: »

Well done. However your side lost, and by some margin.

Take comfort in the fact that there are people in Spain, France, Denmark and the Netherlands who are probably none too happy about Irish citizens with criminal records being able to arrive on their shores either.

Thanks. I take no comfort from that fact either as I don't believe criminals of any nationality should be allowed to roam abroad. The situation that appears to prevail in Spain is a long standing annoyance to me.

Nodin · 27-11-2013 6:17pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Thanks. I take no comfort from that fact either as I don't believe criminals of any nationality should be allowed to roam abroad. The situation that appears to prevail in Spain is a long standing annoyance to me.

Excellent.

Just to get back on track though, whats any of this to do with the topic again?

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 6:17pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Thanks. I take no comfort from that fact either as I don't believe criminals of any nationality should be allowed to roam abroad. The situation that appears to prevail in Spain is a long standing annoyance to me.

So only pure, innocent people should be allowed to travel? Break the law when you're 18 and that's it you are stuck in your own country for life?

Scofflaw · 27-11-2013 6:20pm

bumper234 wrote: »

So only pure, innocent people should be allowed to travel? Break the law when you're 18 and that's it you are stuck in your own country for life?

Pure, innocent non-Romanians and non-Bulgarians, apparently. Possibly being Romanian or Bulgarian is some kind of crime in itself?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 6:21pm

bumper234 wrote: »

So only pure, innocent people should be allowed to travel? Break the law when you're 18 and that's it you are stuck in your own country for life?

I think you know that's not what I'm saying but I won't derail the thread any further as Nodin has spoken. :rolleyes:

Riskymove · 27-11-2013 6:22pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I think you know that's not what I'm saying but I won't derail the thread any further as Nodin has spoken. :rolleyes:

the OP is about restrictions on working.....it has nothing to do with wider immigration or freedom of movement

oscarBravo · 27-11-2013 6:25pm

Nodin wrote: »

Ireland has had restrictions on who can access welfare payments from the beginning.

Hush you with your facts. We're talking about immigration here. Facts have no place in this discussion.

magma69 · 27-11-2013 6:29pm

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/#.UpYpv8RdWAk

Stats there showing immigration for the last 5 years. 455,000 in 2008 to 118,000 in 2013 from EU 12 countries. Although there was a rise of 15,000 compared to last year, I don't think it's time for panic stations. There's far more appealing countries than Ireland.

Judgement Day · 27-11-2013 6:30pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Hush you with your facts. We're talking about immigration here. Facts have no place in this discussion.

Just blind complacency allowed here, full steam ahead....

Nodin · 27-11-2013 6:55pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just blind complacency allowed here, full steam ahead....

"blind complacency" to what, exactly? You might be good enough to outline your argument fully.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 6:57pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just blind complacency allowed here, full steam ahead....

Who is being complacent and what are they being complacent about?

Chips Lovell · 27-11-2013 8:24pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

We already have serious unemployment here and no need of further workers.

You do realise that a country can have both high unemployment and a need for immigrant workers?

FTA69 · 27-11-2013 8:59pm

I'm sure they'll be delighted to come here and take all the non-existent jobs.

todolist · 27-11-2013 9:45pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You do realise that a country can have both high unemployment and a need for immigrant workers?

Most Eastern European workers her are unskilled.Insane allowing that while the natives are choosing to stay at home and collect welfare.

bumper234 · 27-11-2013 9:59pm

todolist wrote: »

Most Eastern European workers her are unskilled.Insane allowing that while the natives are choosing to stay at home and collect welfare.

Funny you claim that, when I worked in construction I met 2 engineers, 1 micro biologist, a dentist and a living breathing actual ROCKET SCIENTIST! All working as labourer's because the money working construction here was better than doing their own jobs back in Poland (scientist was actually from Estonia). Hardly unskilled imo but just paid better here and willing to do the work.

murphaph · 27-11-2013 10:24pm

creeper1 wrote: »

Make no mistake this free movement of people rule that the EU has is very detrimental to low skilled workers. Maybe even all workers in western Europe.

It certainly hasn't been detrimental to me. I like that I've been able to come and settle in Germany. Germany however has in recent years begun sending benefit tourists home. We need to police the situation tightly and actually deport people who have come to Ireland to claim benefits.

To be honest we need total reform of the welfare system so that someone who has never paid in is entitled to (almost) nothing. If we did that, not only would it have positive effects with our own population with the old sticky mattress syndrome it would also make benefit tourism pointless.

Nodin · 27-11-2013 10:42pm

murphaph wrote: »

To be honest we need total reform of the welfare system so that someone who has never paid in is entitled to (almost) nothing. If we did that, not only would it have positive effects with our own population with the old sticky mattress syndrome it would also make benefit tourism pointless.

That's more or less the way it is presently with EU nationals and has been for many years.

murphaph · 27-11-2013 10:47pm

Nodin wrote: »

That's more or less the way it is presently with EU nationals and has been for many years.

Yes but once said national has been paying in for a year they get full entitlements to benefits at the same levels as someone who's been paying PRSI for 30 years. That's not fair. Benefits should reflect how much social insurance you've actually paid. That should be the case for all, EU migrants or our own.

riffmongous · 27-11-2013 11:05pm

murphaph wrote: »

Yes but once said national has been paying in for a year they get full entitlements to benefits at the same levels as someone who's been paying PRSI for 30 years. That's not fair. Benefits should reflect how much social insurance you've actually paid. That should be the case for all, EU migrants or our own.

Hm, but wouldn't that affect recent graduates pretty badly though. It would be a waste to pay for their eduacation and then force them to emmigrate almost immeadiately as their is no jobs and no dole to support them while they search. Although probably still better than the current situation where graduates get dole for a while and then still have to emigrate due to a lack of work.

Nodin · 27-11-2013 11:39pm

murphaph wrote: »

Yes but once said national has been paying in for a year they get full entitlements to benefits at the same levels as someone who's been paying PRSI for 30 years. That's not fair. Benefits should reflect how much social insurance you've actually paid. That should be the case for all, EU migrants or our own.

There is a residency requirement.

Payments must be made over 18 months, not a year.

Eastern European Hoardes on The Way

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