Are any parties left untainted?

Grudaire · 03-12-2013 1:47am #1

I was thinking to myself there recently that there does not appear to be any (reasonable) party who is completely untainted. Who holds the moral high ground anymore? Who can people choose to elect next time around without a heavy feeling in the pit of their stomachs?

Fine Gael have been the drivers of this current government. I don't think they have done a particularly poor job, but their priorities are in the wrong place. The actions of James Reilly and Shatter have left plenty of room for improvement.

Labour Party appear to have sold out the 'labour' bit of the labour party.. probably are in a difficult place sharing power in quite difficult times, but time and time again they have failed to stand up for the workers that a labour party should be trying to defend.

Fianna Fáil... Míchael Martin, Willie O'Dea... it's almost a completely revamped party... not!

Sinn Féin, despite their best efforts they will be linked to physical force nationalism for a long time. It doesn't help that extra question marks are hanging over Gerry Adams, and the fact that their economic policies are too far left for many. Also initially supported the bank guarantee

United Left Alliance - if they could organise themselves they could be a force in the Dáil. Instead they trip over each other at every opportunity..

Green Party are in the eyes of many as guilty (if not more) than Fianna Fáil.

Others like the Workers' Party and the Communist Party of Ireland are too far on the fringe to even be considered here... Other potential movements seem too small at this time to be considered properly nationally (Fís Nua, DDI)

So who is left?

joe swanson · 03-12-2013 2:08am

V good question. If there was a general election tomorrow i have no idea who id vote for. I know who i deffo wouldnt vote for (shinners, the loonies ie daly, wallace,ming).

Lost a lot of respect forlabour pretty much sold out lower paid public servants.

Fianna fail- nope not yet if ever can i forgive.

Fine gael - shatter and reilly make me not wanna. I really dont know.

However i think fg may edge it cause they have had to clean up an astonishing mess whilst the rest shout slogans .

There realky is nothing that stands out

srsly78 · 03-12-2013 2:49am

We need more pirate party candidates.

Incidentally, gaelic means pirate

Scofflaw · 03-12-2013 5:07am

Cliste wrote:

Green Party are in the eyes of many as guilty (if not more) than Fianna Fáil.

A truly bizarre outcome, really. Party with 6 TDs, involved in one out of the three governments which can be said to have contributed to the crisis, very far from being the driving force in any of them, and not even required to make up a Dáil majority until the absolute last gasp of the last government, and whose Cabinet members were informed, like the rest of the Cabinet, of the duumvirate's decision only by a phone call in the wee hours.

But then most people didn't like them in the first place, I suppose. Still bizarre, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Grudaire · 03-12-2013 8:51am

Scofflaw wrote: »

A truly bizarre outcome, really. Party with 6 TDs, involved in one out of the three governments which can be said to have contributed to the crisis, very far from being the driving force in any of them, and not even required to make up a Dáil majority until the absolute last gasp of the last government, and whose Cabinet members were informed, like the rest of the Cabinet, of the duumvirate's decision only by a phone call in the wee hours.

Well I'd agree with you on this one. I'd go as far too say that the planning legislation that was introduced was very long overdue. If we had it earlier we might not be stuck with do many useless ghost estates now..

In reality however the lack of coverage the party is getting in the news means that only a small handful have enough profile to have any hope of being elected in the next few elections.

Is there a risk of voter disillusionment as a result of this universal taintedness?

jmayo · 03-12-2013 2:55pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

A truly bizarre outcome, really. Party with 6 TDs, involved in one out of the three governments which can be said to have contributed to the crisis, very far from being the driving force in any of them, and not even required to make up a Dáil majority until the absolute last gasp of the last government, and whose Cabinet members were informed, like the rest of the Cabinet, of the duumvirate's decision only by a phone call in the wee hours.

But then most people didn't like them in the first place, I suppose. Still bizarre, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

It might be the fact they were often so fecking sanctimonious.
Oh and for me, it was the fact they seemed more worried about a single stag hunt than signing the spawn of the property development classes, NAMA, into being.

Loafing Oaf · 03-12-2013 3:12pm

If you don't like any of the available options you should be getting involved in providing a new one yourself, that's how democracy works...

Grudaire · 03-12-2013 3:44pm

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and for me, it was the fact they seemed more worried about a single stag hunt than signing the spawn of the property development classes, NAMA, into being.

I don't think that's a fair statement. The stag hunt ban was a straightforward piece of legislation that got blown out of all proportion by the pro-hunt lobby. Unless all non-crisis related legislation should be shelved/not signed if anything dramatic happens?

Suddenly it was a rural vs urban debate, despite the fact that it was (as you correctly point out) a single hunt.

If you don't like any of the available options you should be getting involved in providing a new one yourself, that's how democracy works...

I'd agree with this sentiment alright. I'm not saying another party is the right option. Especially after Fís Nua's attempts falling flat.

I'm just curious as to what redeems a party for people, or if flawed is the best we can hope for?

goose2005 · 03-12-2013 4:17pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

A truly bizarre outcome, really. Party with 6 TDs, involved in one out of the three governments which can be said to have contributed to the crisis, very far from being the driving force in any of them, and not even required to make up a Dáil majority until the absolute last gasp of the last government, and whose Cabinet members were informed, like the rest of the Cabinet, of the duumvirate's decision only by a phone call in the wee hours.

But then most people didn't like them in the first place, I suppose. Still bizarre, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Reminds me of a woman whose husband is always cheating on her. It's far easier to blame "the other woman" for being a hussy and a tramp than to accept that your husband is the real villain.

For Reals · 03-12-2013 4:44pm

For me, even politicians are people, (no seriously).
I will not write off a party because of the actions of its, (in most cases) few members who put themselves over the supposed good a party promises to do for the country.
So then we must look at how the party deal with such instances. Also in terms of ideology, do they follow it, does it change with the populist tide?

Where does this leave me?
I honestly don't believe Fianna Fail, at its heart, wants to be corruption free. Its a party built on family ties and favours. Its the nature and make up of the party. I see politicians needing to be pushed when any party member should have resigned even if only for the respect of the party.
I can't see myself supporting them in this life, but of course on certain amendments etc., just not as a political body.

Fine Gael on the other hand seem fiscally responsible but forget, or don't care, how is effects society, society being the day in day out middle to low income tax payer or those less fortunate. And of course have their share of corruption, but its their lack of compassion riles me the most. No time for these lads.

Labour: opportunistic basically. Will spout leftist ideology but will get into bed with anyone. I will not vote for them either.

If, as I read a lot, these parties have a grass roots membership who disagree with the actions of these parties at their various shameful points.....shame on them. Where are they? Bring change from within.
I don't believe in the 'better in than out' philosophy carried by most parties. In the short term you may do some good but the political dynamic/landscape will never change unless we have a big enough party that actually stands by their ideology 100%. At least we would have clear choices.

Scofflaw · 03-12-2013 6:13pm

Cliste wrote: »

I'd agree with this sentiment alright. I'm not saying another party is the right option. Especially after Fís Nua's attempts falling flat.

I'm just curious as to what redeems a party for people, or if flawed is the best we can hope for?

I'd have to say that flawed is the best we can hope for - I can't think of any flawless political parties at any time in any place - and that what redeems them for people is forgiveness on the basis that they're the least flawed of a flawed bunch.

Of course, even once people have made their choice on a 'least worst' basis, cognitive dissonance usually means that the harder people have had to hold their noses to make the choice, the more defensive they are about it...and the more likely they are to defend "their" chosen party.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Red Crow · 04-12-2013 12:59am

No and I think Fine Gael and Labour should be punished in the next GE as well. They have completely mishandled Ireland's recovery and have been pathetic leaders in such times when strong, direct leadership is needed.

Firstly, I think that Enda Kenny is a weak representative of Ireland. The man obviously has very poor negotiating skills and his constant ducking of debates has been pathetic. When we are trying to attract FDI into the country and this guy is supposedly the man spearheading a 'new' Ireland. Ireland has been the benefactors of external conditions improving but we've not saw any local policies delivering a real benefit to the economy. We were promised a new, transparent banking system which has not been delivered. There is also something extremely fishy going on at the Central Bank at the minute; where is everybody going? What are they running away from?

What have Fine Gael/Labour done about the state of the accounting practice in this country? What about the auditors and the FR? Why are local councils still blowing money 'to use the funding' on white elephant projects. Honestly, nothing has changed in this country and the same old useless Fianna Fail TD's are still in power the just have different names and have a blue or red swirl next to their name.

Currently the government has given up on the pharmaceutical sector in Ireland and all our eggs, again, are being placed in one basket that is I.T. We keep hearing the same old populist tripe from both opposition and Government. Labour are already going to be badly punished for their role in this Government but people should show the same yard stick to Fine Gael and beat them down a level or two. These two political parties are as asleep at the wheel as Fianna Fail were before them.

When we raise our CT rate and start cutting the various grants and 'nice' tax exemptions that we need to attract FDI into Ireland we can say goodbye to all these jobs being created. With Noonan being pushed around in Europe it's only a matter of time before we say goodbye to the IT companies docking their ship on our shores.

View · 04-12-2013 1:19am

The democratic political process involves disparate groups in society compromising on their beliefs and interests in the wider interest of peace & stability.

If you want "untainted" politics you need a dictatorship where one group can remain "pure" by ignoring everyone else or even killing them to maintain "purity" if so inclined. That's a different type of tainted politics though at the end of the day.

Are any parties left untainted?

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