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Free Wifi coming for prisioners

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  • 25-11-2013 8:56pm
    #1
    kawasaki1100
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭


    Its in the papers today - free wifi will soon be available to prisioners in Irelands jails, are the Govt having a laugh or what?:confused:


«13

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    #2
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    And yet they aren't allowed phones/tablets in mountjoy, so why?

    Ah is it for the xbox? Great way to organise your criminal gang, just hang out in chatroom.


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    #3
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    Its in the papers today - free wifi will soon be available to prisioners in Irelands jails, are the Govt having a laugh or what?:confused:

    I hope so.

    The way they are treated they need something to escape better than drugs and drink.


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    #4
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Seems to be not happening.

    And so what if it was? Helps with re-integration.


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    #5
    kawasaki1100
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭kawasaki1100


    Holsten wrote: »
    Seems to be not happening.

    And so what if it was? Helps with re-integration.

    Ha, now your havin a laugh.


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    #6
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    Ha, now your havin a laugh.

    Prison should be about punishment but it should also be about rehabilition.

    Otherwise you might as well go back to hanging people for stealing a loaf of bread...


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    #7
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Sure you can't expect all the bankers and fianna fail crooks thay will shortly be filling the cells, to go without there fix of the financial times online!


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    #8
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    They'll be the bosses at GTA :D


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    #9
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Prison should be about punishment but it should also be about rehabilition.

    Otherwise you might as well go back to hanging people for stealing a loaf of bread...

    Prison should be solely about rehabilitation. Punishment without rehabilitation is moronic imo. It achieves nothing.


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    #10
    Mr Williams
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 188 ✭✭Mr Williams


    Is there any country in the world that has Wifi in its jails ?

    It sounds like a mad idea prisoners will be able to taunt their victims if they have unsupervised internet access.


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    #11
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    magma69 wrote: »
    Prison should be solely about rehabilitation. Punishment without rehabilitation is moronic imo. It achieves nothing.

    No people have hurt others- they deserve to hurt themselves. That said Im completely opposed to the cruel prison conditions we have. Both are needed but at the moment we have punishment to such an extent that it just breeds bitterness and the likelihood of re-offending. The way the prisons are now they just create crime.


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    #12
    kawasaki1100
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭kawasaki1100


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Prison should be about punishment but it should also be about rehabilition.

    Otherwise you might as well go back to hanging people for stealing a loaf of bread...

    Awe ok, so should we pamper the 7 scumbags that robbed and terrorised the family in Co Tipp last week? i for one dont think so!


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    #13
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    Awe ok, so should we pamper the 7 scumbags that robbed and terrorised the family in Co Tipp last week? i for one dont think so!

    They maybe scumbags- but someone can be a scumbag and change radically.

    We are not talking about pampering them- just recognizing that they are also human beings with feelings and needs. If you totally dont recognize that and write them off as scumbags can you complain when they turn around and act like scumbags?


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    #14
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Ok silly example, but which is better?

    Prisoners get wi-fi, learn some new stuff, allows them to get jobs, never re-offend.

    Prisoners get no wi-fi, don't learn ****, only get "punished".. come out of jail and rob you, your family, etc...

    Eh?


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    #15
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    Why are prisoners given anything that many pensioners don't have?

    Perhaps introduce workshops or other forms of useful work, where if they co-operate and work hard, then and only then can they get luxuries such as wifi, tv, games etc.

    No working, no co-operation etc, then no luxuries, moved to colder cells, basic food etc. then they will learn that good behaviours are rewarded and bad behaviours are punished!


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    #16
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    They maybe scumbags- but someone can be a scumbag and change radically.

    We are not talking about pampering them- just recognizing that they are also human beings with feelings and needs. If you totally dont recognize that and write them off as scumbags can you complain when they turn around and act like scumbags?

    So if we're nice to them they'll come round?

    How about we do it the other way around?

    They start acting like human beings and then we can treat them as such? Keep acting like animals.....expect to be treated like one.


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    #17
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    No people have hurt others- they deserve to hurt themselves. That said Im completely opposed to the cruel prison conditions we have. Both are needed but at the moment we have punishment to such an extent that it just breeds bitterness and the likelihood of re-offending. The way the prisons are now they just create crime.

    Like I said, if it doesn't lend itself to rehabilitation it's completely pointless.

    Making life excessively tough does what exactly? Gives an emotionally charged feeling of justice for some but wouldn't it be more sensible to take the approach which reduces the probability of reoffending and causing hurt to more people.

    The stats speak for themselves, prisons that treat prisoners more humanely have lower recidivism rates. That's not a bleeding heart liberal mindset. It's a rational one which saves the state money in the long run and leads to a healthier society.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/03/12/comparing-the-us-and-norwegian-prison-systems/


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    #18
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    wexie wrote: »
    So if we're nice to them they'll come round?

    How about we do it the other way around?

    They start acting like human beings and then we can treat them as such? Keep acting like animals.....expect to be treated like one.

    Examples;

    Your way - United States - Most people imprisoned in the world, highest levels of recidivism

    Norway's Way - Lowest level of recidivism in the world.

    Which is better for society?


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    #19
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    magma69 wrote: »
    Like I said, if it doesn't lend itself to rehabilitation it's completely pointless.

    Making life excessively tough does what exactly? Gives an emotionally charged feeling of justice for some but wouldn't it be more sensible to take the approach which reduces the probability of reoffending and causing hurt to more people.

    The stats speak for themselves, prisons that treat prisoners more humanely have lower recidivism rates. That's not a bleeding heart liberal mindset. It's a rational one which saves the state money in the long run and leads to a healthier society.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/03/12/comparing-the-us-and-norwegian-prison-systems/

    Im for punishing people-not dehumanizing them as currently happens, which does indeed lead to greater crime and warps people further. There is a difference.


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    #20
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    They don't just give the prisoners everything in Norway, they have to be earned!
    There are 70 members of staff on the 2.6 sq km island during the day, 35 of whom are uniformed guards. Their main job is to count the prisoners – first thing in the morning, twice during the day at their workplaces, once en masse at a specific assembly point at 5pm, and finally at 11pm, when they are confined to their respective houses. Only four guards remain on the island after 4pm. Thorbjorn points out the small, brightly painted wooden bungalows dotted around the wintry landscape. “These are the houses for the prisoners,” he says. They accommodate up to six people. Every man has his own room and they share kitchen and other facilities. “The idea is they get used to living as they himself live when they are released.” Only one meal a day is provided in the dining hall. The men earn the equivalent of £6 a day and are given a food allowance each month of around £70 with which to buy provisions for their self-prepared breakfasts and evening meals from the island’s well-stocked mini-supermarket.


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    #21
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Holsten wrote: »
    Examples;

    Your way - United States - Most people imprisoned in the world, highest levels of recidivism

    Norway's Way - Lowest level of recidivism in the world.

    Which is better for society?

    you'll probably disagree with me but the scum in norway seem to be a lot less feral than the ones we have here. Personally I think a lot of the ones here are already well beyond redemption.

    And I've no issues with them being treated as humans, if they live up to it and show signs of wanting to better themselves.

    But there's a difference between treating prisoners as humans and pampering them.

    Keeping them warm and fed = treating as humans
    free wifi = pampering.

    it's a thin line between stopping them from re-offending and posing no threat to re-offending whatsoever.


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    #22
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    wexie wrote: »
    So if we're nice to them they'll come round?

    How about we do it the other way around?

    They start acting like human beings and then we can treat them as such? Keep acting like animals.....expect to be treated like one.

    Unfortunately society has not treated these people as human beings much of the time since they came out of the womb; those at the very bottom behave often as those at the very top. They did evil in the vast majority but that doesnt mean that they are essentially evil and with the right attention cant become good people. You cant right off people simply like that; if you were born into Darndale where would you be today?


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    #23
    kawasaki1100
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭kawasaki1100


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    They maybe scumbags- but someone can be a scumbag and change radically.

    We are not talking about pampering them- just recognizing that they are also human beings with feelings and needs. If you totally dont recognize that and write them off as scumbags can you complain when they turn around and act like scumbags?

    I take your point but i think once a scumbag always a scumbag. I have had two attempted break ins on my house by scumbags while i was in the house, unlike the unfortunate family in Tipp i came out the better of it.
    Scumbags never learn.


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    #24
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Unfortunately society has not treated these people as human beings much of the time since they came out of the womb; those at the very bottom behave often as those at the very top. They did evil in the vast majority but that doesnt mean that they are essentially evil and with the right attention cant become good people. You cant right off people simply like that; if you were born into Darndale where would you be today?

    Because it's a well known fact NO good people have come out of Darndale. EVER!!!

    That sounds a bit too easy doesn't it?


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    #25
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    I take your point but i think once a scumbag always a scumbag. I have had two attempted break ins on my house by scumbags while i was in the house, unlike the unfortunate family in Tipp i came out the better of it.
    Scumbags never learn.

    Nonsense people can and do change. I have talked to people who have had very immoral/criminal pasts and yet managed to change around. People are not doomed in this life to evil- you sound like you believe about the lumpen proletariat the same way Hitler believed about the Jews.


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    #26
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    I take your point but i think once a scumbag always a scumbag. I have had two attempted break ins on my house by scumbags while i was in the house, unlike the unfortunate family in Tipp i came out the better of it.
    Scumbags never learn.

    That's completely idiotic. Because you were a victim of some scumbags no criminal can ever rehabilitate. You're letting your emotions cloud any bit of sensibility.


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    #27
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    kawasaki1100 wrote: »
    I take your point but i think once a scumbag always a scumbag. I have had two attempted break ins on my house by scumbags while i was in the house, unlike the unfortunate family in Tipp i came out the better of it.
    Scumbags never learn.


    Some here would almost say you should have left your door open, then they wouldn't need to break in, risking cuts, bruises who knows what! Then you should have carried the stuff to their van, don't want them hurting their backs!

    After all they probably had a bad childhood and deserve your possessions, unlike you who only had to work to get them.


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    #28
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    wexie wrote: »
    Because it's a well known fact NO good people have come out of Darndale. EVER!!!

    That sounds a bit too easy doesn't it?

    Of course there are- but if you live in a certain type of situation you are more likely to end up doing evil, same as if you were born into the elite as born into Darndale. There is a moral personal problem but there are also structural problems. If we reformed the evil structures of society we could massively reduce crime.


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    #29
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    magma69 wrote: »
    That's completely idiotic. Because you were a victim of some scumbags no criminal can ever rehabilitate. You're letting your emotions cloud any bit of sensibility.


    There are plenty of stories of people who have come through worse prison systems rehabilitating, some will change, some will never change!


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    #30
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Of course there are- but if you live in a certain type of situation you are more likely to end up doing evil, same as if you were born into the elite as born into Darndale. There is a moral personal problem but there are also structural problems. If we reformed the evil structures of society we could massively reduce crime.

    errr....I thought you were talking sense there for a minute but you've lost me.

    Like you already said, there are good people coming from areas like Darndale as well as there are bad.

    Let's just assume the good ones had the same chances (or lack thereof) as the bad ones, and had to deal with the same prejudices (after all, no good people come from Darndale right?).

    What's your point then?


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    #31
    magma69
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    brightspark wrote: »
    There are plenty of stories of people who have come through worse prison systems rehabilitating, some will change, some will never change!

    Show me the studies please.


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