Minister for Defence Announces Deployment of Irish Troops to Syria

Grudaire · 19-07-2013 4:38pm

I'm loving the condescending attitude towards the military on this thread! :pac: "there is no plan and there is no backup" - how naive do you think the army is?

I would assume that they are not allowed comment on it, but I'm sure that the guys who will be sent over are looking forward to it.

It's a serious commitment, and it is a dangerous place to be peacekeeping. But don't be so patronising as to say that they are not able for it, or are too ill-equipped for it.

hmmm · 19-07-2013 6:38pm

ninja900 wrote: »

The Golan is relevant to the frozen Israeli/Syrian conflict, but it has no real relevance to the Syrian civil war, it is not of strategic importance to either side.

It has huge relevance. Since the Israeli's attacked Syria in recent months, Assad has vowed revenge. One of the best options open to him is to allow his new BFF in Hezbollah to open a new front on Israel via the Golan heights. He knows that if he launches an attack on Israel using conventional forces he will be wiped out, but allowing Hezbollah launch attacks into Israel from the Golan is a different matter.

I'm not denying that the Irish army are a fine professional force, but I do think this is a stupid place to be sending them. Let the Israelis and the Syrians sort out their own problems without our troops standing in the middle.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-to-open-front-against-israel-in-golan-heights/

Riddle101 · 19-07-2013 6:48pm

hmmm wrote: »

I'm not denying that the Irish army are a fine professional force, but I do think this is a stupid place to be sending them. Let the Israelis and the Syrians sort out their own problems without our troops standing in the middle.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-to-open-front-against-israel-in-golan-heights/

It wouldn't be peace keeping if there wasn't a threat of violence or fighting. Everyone knows the dangers that comes with the job.

Sand · 19-07-2013 7:12pm

@ninja900

F-16s are no use without rules of engagement. If we had F-16s of our own, there would still be no prospect of them being used on this mission. You are either trying to kid us, or kidding yourself. If we had them, exactly who should we be firing on?

What are you on about?

Let me try again.

The Austrians have been the backbone of that particular UN mission for years. They have been deployed out there for four decades. Despite your sneering at them they didn't cut and run during those four decades on that border. They are familiar with the mission and the area, they are familiar with what constitutes "normal" in that area

They are spend vastly more on their military than we do, their military is small but has capacities greatly in excess of the Irish military (for starters a credible ability to defend its own airspace).

So a better equipped and very experienced army has looked at the situation, weighed it up and decided the risks to its troops from a savage and violent civil war are too great and its bringing its 40 year involvement in the mission to the end. This is on top of Croatia, Japan and Canada also deciding to withdraw earlier. Ireland should pay just a small bit of attention to that before throwing a company into an area where there is no peace to keep, where violence is spilling into the ceasefire zone and where UN peacekeepers have been regularly attacked.

Arrogance is no substitute for capabilities. Ireland is perfectly equipped for aiding the civil power, defending its own territory (in line with present threats anyhow) and peacekeeping missions. This deployment to the Golan Heights is none of the above.

I didn't say anything about funding. Funding will come from the UN because this is a UN mission with Irish involvement at UN request. If you are asserting a cost to the Irish exchequer, please provide citations.

I'm not speaking about funding this mission. I speaking about funding capabilities. I.E. spending over the past 10 years, not the last 10 days.

For the record the UN only contributes to mission costs. In this case it will pony up 75% of the bill. The Irish exchequer will cover the rest - roughly 1.25 million.

If we are as useless as you claim, can you explain why the UN asked us to participate in this mission?

Hello - everyone else is pulling out the mission. There wasn't exactly a waiting list to get on it. The UN didn't ask us to participate: they begged everybody. Gilmore and Kenny saw an opportunity to win some political kudos at the price of a few soldiers at most. A bargain in political terms if you relentlessly presume the best case scenario is the most likely.

BTW - where did I say the Irish army is useless? You seem to be projecting a lot of nonsense onto me. Easier than dealing with my actual views I presume.

@Cliste

I'm loving the condescending attitude towards the military on this thread!

And I'm loving the Daily Mail jingoism on the thread.

"there is no plan and there is no backup" - how naive do you think the army is?

I think military's across the western world are under huge pressure to cut budgets massively whilst still supporting political adventures. Politicians don't want to pay for a military, but they still want to send troops into harms way when it suits their political needs. Ireland is no different. But of course, when the Minister for Defence picks up the phone and says "You're going to X to do Y" the army doesn't get to say no, and no senior officer would dare say no: for the sake of their own career and the sake of holding on to whatever budget they have left.

I would assume that they are not allowed comment on it, but I'm sure that the guys who will be sent over are looking forward to it.

Of course they are. Most soldiers will have joined the army because they want a bit of excitement. That's still not a good reason for Ireland to send them out to a rapidly developing mess where everyone else is saying "No thanks".

But don't be so patronising as to say that they are not able for it, or are too ill-equipped for it.

The only patronizing attitude on the thread to any army is by ninja900 towards the Austrian army: apparently they were only interested in a holiday camp, they want out as soon as something happened, etc.

Wrapping the green flag around you whilst humming the anthem doesn't change the facts. This is not a peacekeeping mission anymore. The civil war is spilling over into the ceasefire zone. The army is not equipped for peace-enforcement and the soldiers involved deserve better than having their lives risked so Gilmore and Co can get a pat on the back from the UN.

junder · 19-07-2013 7:18pm

I wish the Irish soldiers a safe tour, the only person that knows what soldiers have to go through are other soldiers. Fair ye well

"You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go."

[Jackass] · 19-07-2013 8:36pm

Is Shatter mixing up Sierra Leone with Syria or something? He's sending our troops into the middle of a full scale war!! What on earth are "peace keeping" and "observer" military going to do in that situation except get shot at!! :eek:

What branch of the army is it does anyone know? Like Full on Army Rangers or purely Medical officers to help treat the wounded in hospitals or what?

I dunno man, personally I wouldn't go for it. It's not like we've got anything to prove, we're a neutral country, hardly need to be sending our lads to the front line of a major war...

Sand · 19-07-2013 8:52pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

What branch of the army is it does anyone know? Like Full on Army Rangers or purely Medical officers to help treat the wounded in hospitals or what?

Its apparently going to be a mechanised infantry company. Just over 100 guys equipped with Mowag Piranhas. Plus UN RoE, the misguided belief that its a peacekeeping mission just like the last 40 years, and the X factor over 300 Austrians were missing.

Riddle101 · 19-07-2013 8:52pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Is Shatter mixing up Sierra Leone with Syria or something? He's sending our troops into the middle of a full scale war!! What on earth are "peace keeping" and "observer" military going to do in that situation except get shot at!! :eek:

What branch of the army is it does anyone know? Like Full on Army Rangers or purely Medical officers to help treat the wounded in hospitals or what?

I dunno man, personally I wouldn't go for it. It's not like we've got anything to prove, we're a neutral country, hardly need to be sending our lads to the front line of a major war...

The ARW are usually the first to get assigned to the job if i'm not mistaken. When they went to Chad it was the ARW who went first. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again here considering the situation.

Nodin · 19-07-2013 11:01pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Is Shatter mixing up Sierra Leone with Syria or something? He's sending our troops into the middle of a full scale war!! What on earth are "peace keeping" and "observer" military going to do in that situation except get shot at!! :eek:

What branch of the army is it does anyone know? Like Full on Army Rangers or purely Medical officers to help treat the wounded in hospitals or what?

I dunno man, personally I wouldn't go for it. It's not like we've got anything to prove, we're a neutral country, hardly need to be sending our lads to the front line of a major war...

It's not a military intervention into Syria.

John Mongo · 20-07-2013 12:19am

Riddle101 wrote: »

The ARW are usually the first to get assigned to the job if i'm not mistaken. When they went to Chad it was the ARW who went first. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again here considering the situation.

Conventional forces will be the first out there, not the ARW.

Xantia · 20-07-2013 1:31am

At the end of the day this is about the local people on the Golan.

Israel was willing to hand it back for a comprehensive peace with Syria but that will probably not happen now, Syria has its own issues, Israel is now self sufficient in water thanks to the Golan.
Israel is also backing moves for oil exploration in the area.

A beautiful part of the world but sad at the same time. Not just a region of Jews and Moslems but Druze, Christians and others.

And of course the Shouting Hill and thePetroleum Road

Ireland already represented there but in the observer side of things UNDOF
UNDOF 2

hmmm · 28-11-2013 11:03pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/irish-troops-fired-on-by-syrian-anti-government-forces-1.1610984

Some 36 Irish personnel were traveling in five MOWAG armoured personnel carriers when the convoy came under fire by what is believed to have been small arms.

A number of the vehicles were hit by rounds of fire and some damage was also caused to a tire on one MOWAG. It is believed the wheel was damaged by an improvised explosive device, which raises the prospect the incident was a carefully planned ambush.

This deployment is absolutely ridiculous. The other EU nations had the good sense to pull their troops out of a warzone, and we stuck ours into the middle of it. All to patrol an utterly pointless buffer zone.

Whoever in government authorised this should have the decency to resign.

goose2005 · 29-11-2013 1:29pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Peace keeping in an active war-zone, bit of an oxymoron ain't it?

Yes, obviously they should be peacekeeping on the Cote d'Azur or maybe guarding Kerry against Sassenach incursions

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not our duty to police the world.

Isn't it?

Morpheus · 05-12-2013 3:28pm

hmmm wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/irish-troops-fired-on-by-syrian-anti-government-forces-1.1610984

This deployment is absolutely ridiculous. The other EU nations had the good sense to pull their troops out of a warzone, and we stuck ours into the middle of it. All to patrol an utterly pointless buffer zone.

Whoever in government authorised this should have the decency to resign.

As a matter of interest hmmm... what in your eyes would be an acceptable deployment? In barracks in the curragh perhaps?

The fact is that an everyday Irish convoy moving personnel between two locations, came under attack,
small arms rounds were fired at irish armoured vehicles,
reaction to this was standard affair - shots fired in return by irish troops and get out of there back to base
in the middle of this a vehicle reversed over a landmine that is believed to have not been deliberately planted by the attackers and was a legacy device from a previous war in the same area. damage to one wheel and no rounds penetrated the vehicles. one soldier slightly injured himself apparently getting through a hatch or by movement inside the vehicle in a hurry

dont see what the big deal is, the reality that the Irish public wont face is that only a couple of all of the incidents that the DF encounter in any zone at any time, will get reported by the media back home.

Is the populations memory so very short that they have forgotten the dead and injured returning from the lebanon and the congo and bosnia and other missions yet we remained there and finished the deployments and completed the missions under even stricter ROE??

As a country we have a percentage of citizens who like to deride our defence forces publicly, just read the comments under any article on our online news papers which report about our troops... what does the army do? why not disband them? (two of the dumbest - pardon my french - ****ing questions I have ever heard pass a supposedly intelligent irish persons lips) Soldiers are all thick, dumb, idiots, costly, scroungers, etc ****ing etc. Yet our Dept of Defence is probably the most efficiently run dept in govt, they cannot strike, they work 24/7 for little extra, they are a fit, well trained, highly technical workforce and provide capabilities and security that no other arm of govt in this country can even come close to. They are a model of civil service that would do very well to be applied to other departments govt wide.

we also like to boast to our international friends about how great we are at peacekeeping / peace-enforcing in oppressed countries, mostly due to our so-called military "neutrality". we are sure that beligerents on both sides will love us - "Shur arent de Irish all great craic, be the hokey" ... yet here we are... stunned and surprised when someone - how very dare they - shoots at the nice irish - without provocation nonetheless - and we declare that we now wont stomach the risks to irish lives or swallow that irish soldiers will face dangers like this all the time - at the cost of a desperately needed UN mission? well now, that takes some balls doesnt it?

So we'd rather step up to the plate, dig a large hole and bury our heads in it?

We will instead pretend that atrocities and wars etc are not happening in these places,
that innocents and aid agencies DONT need the international communities help to create peaceful zones that they can more or less operate in
that we will now pull out of these NECESSARY UN missions which try to improve life and security for people on both sides?
Really? could you sleep peacefully at night knowing this? In doing so we will now tell the rest of the world to carry on and will become one of the most insular, self centered, ignorant, inward looking, selfish, developed countries on the planet. Thats what we Irish are? Moan and whinge and keep our heads below the parapet and let someone else take care of someone elses mess and just throw stones over the wall now and again?

That attitude disgusts me as an Irish man, I am proud that we have shown some backbone and taken on a mission which others have pulled out of. Dont get me wrong... I dont want one drop of irish blood to be spilled in the process, however I do accept that unfortunately this may happen however much I pray that it wont.

To put it simply this report could easily have come from an incident in the lebanon, afghanistan, congo, somalia or bosnia on the same day or any of our other missions.

Its a fact of life and one a soldier is well aware of when we take the oath. Nobody wants to be injured or killed, but its just part of the jobs risks.

Anyway, keep safe guys.

Minister for Defence Announces Deployment of Irish Troops to Syria

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