Season 2 Episode 5 - Have NOT Read the Books

Niall09 · 30-04-2012 2:48pm #1

The beginning :eek:

30-04-2012 3:06pm

Bit of a slowburner episode. Nice to see Arya being able to listen in to the Lannisters war council like that though

Kiwi_knock · 30-04-2012 3:55pm

Nothing really exciting in the episode, more of a progression of the storyline and setting up future storylines. Was expecting a shock or a surprise at the end to make us look forward to next week.

jakobgallagher · 30-04-2012 4:12pm

The shock was at the start of the episode, i'm delighted the writers dont feel the need to end every episode with a cliff hanger.

Oranage2 · 30-04-2012 4:40pm

Just watched it there - very good I thought, not as slow as the third episode.

Nice to see Bran Stark and making decisions esp in contrast to king Joffrey's decision making.

Just one thing - Who is the guy that promised Arya

the 3 kills

- I know he's the guy she saved from the fire in the jail cart but which family is he from or what has he done?

I'd google it but you always get spoilers.

Frisbee · 30-04-2012 4:47pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just one thing - Who is the guy that promised Arya
the 3 kills
- I know he's the guy she saved from the fire in the jail cart but which family is he from or what has he done?

I'd google it but you always get spoilers.

Jaqen H'ghar. Not of any of the families/factions of Westeros. He's from Braavos, one of the free cities. The same place Syrio (Arya's dancing master) was from in Season 1.

expectationlost · 30-04-2012 5:32pm

i vow to protect you with all my might, ... oh dear... i vow to protect you with all my might.

OctavarIan · 30-04-2012 7:39pm

People who say nothing really happened in this episode, wut?

pixelburp · 30-04-2012 7:50pm

Well perhaps it wasn't a case that nothing happened, but certainly there wasn't as much clear progression in the storylines as there was previously; it was more a case of expanding on what we saw last week. Each arc got some time to stretch out its respective plotline. With the possible exception of John Snow's arc: that's simply going nowhere really. I have to say though, I didn't expect the ghost-pregnancy assassin to be successful, that was a surprise.

Mentioned already, but watching Bran rule was an interesting parallel to Joffrey. Whilst the latter is an aimless, untutored & brutal tyrant, Bran is showing himself a wise and fair ruler despite his lack of years. As for his powers, that vision he spoke of is obviously allegorical for Greyjoy's attack on the Stark lands. Guess the Lannisters are finally going to get a reprieve from Rob's steamroller attacks, all thanks to Balon's idiocy.

As for the star of the show, I'm beginning to wonder what game Tyrion is really playing at. Yes, he seems to be trying to keep the peace, the innocents & Kings Landing safe, but to what aim? If he won't allow the napalm to be used in battle, then surely Stannis will arrive and then what? I suspect Tyrion has a masterplan that might involve exchanging Joffrey in exchange for the rest of the Lannisters' safety.

I do kind of wish Danaerys would get her arse back to Westeros, because I'm beginning to share the same thoughts of Ser Jorrah; she and Rob Stark are the only two claimants who seem like they might actually be reasonable, fair rulers.

CastorTroy · 30-04-2012 11:18pm

OctavarIan wrote: »

People who say nothing really happened in this episode, wut?

They mean there was a lack of nudity. :rolleyes:

I know we saw the 3 eyed crow, but I don't remember seeing the water. Did it show that?

I'm confused with what happened in Qarth. The guy says he has the key to open the vault, but why does he need Dany then?

johnnysmack · 30-04-2012 11:22pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

The guy says he has the key to open the vault, but why does he need Dany then?

He's only a merchant at the minute. With her claiming the Iron Throne he can become royalty and own half the known world with their kids becoming princes and princesses! He's aiming higher as they said in the episode.

krudler · 01-05-2012 12:07am

Its cool how grown up Bran already seems. I like how Charles Dance plays Tywin, he's a bastard but a charismatic and smart one, Dance is a great actor though he's watchable in anything I've ever seen him in. Good episode this week, just nicely progressed but no major events. It'll probably kick up a gear in the next episode or two

ricero · 01-05-2012 12:57am

last week ratz from paths to freedom and this week finchy from the office. i love it :P

don ramo · 01-05-2012 2:07am

i really hope deany takes up that invite to go to that magic house (cant recall its name), she should make the best of being in qarth, she would be stupid to leave any time soon and i dunno why sir whatshisname wants her to leave now, they are in no way ready to head back to westeros, there are army's to be had on essos and deany should take advantage of that, why rule the 7 kingdoms of westeros when you can rule the world,

i do wonder how rob or bran will react when they find out its theon thats attacking them,

Professional Griefer · 01-05-2012 3:39am

Those magic lads looked weird.

That 'thing' was pretty cool as well. When the guards came in, Catelyn saying it wasn't Brienne. How would you explain that one Cat? :pac:

Good episode. Things are building nicely.

Lothaar v2 · 01-05-2012 9:39am

pixelburp wrote: »

Mentioned already, but watching Bran rule was an interesting parallel to Joffrey. Whilst the latter is an aimless, untutored & brutal tyrant, Bran is showing himself a wise and fair ruler despite his lack of years. As for his powers, that vision he spoke of is obviously allegorical for Greyjoy's attack on the Stark lands. Guess the Lannisters are finally going to get a reprieve from Rob's steamroller attacks, all thanks to Balon's idiocy.

I don't know if it's idocy. My take was that Bran fell into Balon's trap. If Theon's attack draws the few remaining soldiers away from Winterfell, while the Starks' lines are already spread too thin (mentioned in the show), then there's nobody to stop Balon from taking Winterfell. It seemed to me that Bran's dream was a premonition of the Iron Islanders taking Winterfell itself.

The juxtaposition between Bran's ruling and Joffrey's is similar to that of Ned and Joffrey. Bran is taking the honourable path, out of respect for his bannermen. Meanwhile, Joffrey is stockpiling wildfire to ensure his attackers meet a firey end. The series has already shown that honour isn't always the right path in the game of thrones

don ramo · 01-05-2012 9:59am

Lothaar v2 wrote: »

I don't know if it's idocy. My take was that Bran fell into Balon's trap. If Theon's attack draws the few remaining soldiers away from Winterfell, while the Starks' lines are already spread too thin (mentioned in the show), then there's nobody to stop Balon from taking Winterfell. It seemed to me that Bran's dream was a premonition of the Iron Islanders taking Winterfell itself.

The juxtaposition between Bran's ruling and Joffrey's is similar to that of Ned and Joffrey. Bran is taking the honorable path, out of respect for his banner men. Meanwhile, Joffrey is stockpiling wildfire to ensure his attackers meet a fiery end. The series has already shown that honor isn't always the right path in the game of thrones

but balon doesn't know theon is attacking winterfell, the first mate put that idea in his head,

Johnny Bitte · 01-05-2012 10:23am

don ramo wrote: »

but balon doesn't know theon is attacking winterfell, the first mate put that idea in his head,

Think Lothaar v2 means Theon.

don ramo · 01-05-2012 10:29am

The_Goose135 wrote: »

Think Lothaar v2 means Theon.

but still unless balon knows theon is attacking that square place he wont try and take winterfell, and theon has one ship,

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 01-05-2012 10:32am

and bran has sent 200 men down to the fishing village to protect it, with most of the able bodied men with robb fighting down south
winterfell is pretty much undefended

mikemac1 · 01-05-2012 10:36am

Wildfire to burn an entire fleet?
I know this show doesn't do big battle scenes but that sounds incredible

Can't wait for next week

Though it's dangerous, you're as likely to kill yourself then the enemy with that wildfire.

Lothaar v2 · 01-05-2012 10:55am

don ramo wrote: »

but balon doesn't know theon is attacking winterfell, the first mate put that idea in his head,

Doesn't he? Doesn't he?

... ok, maybe he doesn't! That's just what I took from it. The exchange between Theon and the first mate left a suggestion hanging, but I might have misread it. It went something like this:

Theon: This is a test, isn't it?

First Mate: Yes, it's a test. Those men got where they are by doing what they like, not what they're told. Y'know, [the tower place] isn't far from Winterfell.

Theon: And if we attack it... (smiles and trails off)

I can't remember exactly, but it seemed to suggest that the 'test' was to see if Theon would take the initiative and go plundering. Could Balon know that Theon would choose a strategically advantageous location for plunderage? Even if he didn't know, Winterfell is extremely weak and Balon's planning to head that way.

Sleepy · 01-05-2012 11:20am

It was Theon that suggested Torrhen's Tower was close to where they plan to land.

don ramo · 01-05-2012 11:56am

Sleepy wrote: »

It was Theon that suggested Torrhen's Tower was close to where they plan to land.

Torrhens square, according the map on HBO is up a river and across a lough and is a fair distance from pyke,

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season2/#!/locations/riverrun/

Sleepy · 01-05-2012 12:24pm

Presumably he's planning to land south of Sea Dragon point as that map portrays it, that'd be about a day's march from where they'd land.

pixelburp · 01-05-2012 1:29pm

Lothaar v2 wrote: »

I don't know if it's idocy. My take was that Bran fell into Balon's trap. [...]

Idiocy insofar as Balon siding with a family that shows no love or loyalty for him (he himself pointed out that he was surrendered as a child), and openly attacking & betraying the only real family he has ever known. Not to mention scuppering the chances of what looked like being the winning faction. Nor is it a case that the Iron Islands are any sort of paradise either: they seems like miserable rocks, filled with pirates & rapists. So yeah; idiocy in my book.

Sleepy · 01-05-2012 1:50pm

You're confusing Balon and Theon pixelburp. Balon is Theon's father and ruler of the Iron Islands.

mikemac1 · 01-05-2012 2:01pm

Useless with names but Natalie Dormer's character said she wanted to be the Queen, not just a Queen

I'm guessing she'll have a big role in the future

don ramo · 01-05-2012 2:27pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Useless with names but Natalie Dormer's character said she wanted to be the Queen, not just a Queen

I'm guessing she'll have a big role in the future

if she become queen yes, but if she doesn't, well as it says in the tagline "you either win, or you die"

Lothaar v2 · 01-05-2012 2:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

So yeah; idiocy in my book.

As Sleepy says, you're confusing Balon and Theon. The post I was responding to referenced Balon's idiocy for attacking the Starks, giving the Lannisters some reprieve. I was saying that Theon's attack on Torrhens Square could work out in Balon's favour, as most/all the remaining soldiers have left Winterfell to repel the attack, leaving Winterfell perilously undefended. Balon can swoop in, behind the over-stretched Stark lines, and take their home stronghold.

01-05-2012 4:28pm

Really enjoyed that episode. I want the dragons to get bigger!

Davyhal · 01-05-2012 4:29pm

From what I gathered, it was Theon that said to attack Torrhens Square after (or maybe instead of) raiding the fishing villages, but he said it after being pointed in that way of thinking by his first mate. Maybe the first mate knows more than he is letting on. Wouldn't be surprised if maybe Theon's sister or someone attacked Winterfell once all the troops are off protecting Torrhens Square, with her having told the first mate to plant the idea in Theon's head.... Theon wants to improve his situation in the family by impressing his father, but he may have been reluctant if he was informed of an all-out attack on Winterfell. He doesn't want to admit it, but he still has some loyalty to the Starks. Only question is, does he care more about impressing Balon, or about the Starks status as rulers of Winterfell?

Kirby · 01-05-2012 4:30pm

I love the show but everything North of the wall is just so slow and dreary. The expense in location shooting all those men in the snow is just not worth the scenes at all. That money could be better spent on something else.

The sooner Jon Snow either dies (he wont) or actually starts fighting some white walkers, the better.

01-05-2012 4:38pm

Kirby wrote: »

I love the show but everything North of the wall is just so slow and dreary. The expense in location shooting all those men in the snow is just not worth the scenes at all. That money could be better spent on something else.

The sooner Jon Snow either dies (he wont) or actually starts fighting some white walkers, the better.

I actually quite like the stuff north of the way. Gives you that extra thing to be thinking about as we literally know **** all about what's going on with the white walkers. Also I think the shots yesterday were great.

tvnutz · 01-05-2012 5:26pm

Sure the white walkers are not the only problem North of the Wall,the Wildlings and their huge army who want to march south and take the throne might be a bit of a problem as well!

pixelburp · 01-05-2012 7:13pm

Lothaar v2 wrote: »

As Sleepy says, you're confusing Balon and Theon. The post I was responding to referenced Balon's idiocy for attacking the Starks, giving the Lannisters some reprieve. I was saying that Theon's attack on Torrhens Square could work out in Balon's favour, as most/all the remaining soldiers have left Winterfell to repel the attack, leaving Winterfell perilously undefended. Balon can swoop in, behind the over-stretched Stark lines, and take their home stronghold.

Yes, reading it again I was getting my Greyjoys mixed up. Papa Greyjoy is definitely canny allright for attacking the North, though the prodigal son is still a moron of the highest order

Potential-Monke · 01-05-2012 9:17pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wildfire to burn an entire fleet?
I know this show doesn't do big battle scenes but that sounds incredible

The producers got a 15% budget increase for a single episode in this season, so they might be doing a big battle...

TheFullDuck · 01-05-2012 11:31pm

Didn't know where to put this so I'll drop it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ur8dwmqY3g

calex71 · 01-05-2012 11:59pm

TheFullDuck wrote: »

Didn't know where to put this so I'll drop it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ur8dwmqY3g

Just saw that this evening

mufcboy1999 · 02-05-2012 12:46am

Really really not enjoying this series so far , such a letdown.

touts · 02-05-2012 8:08am

I think this was a good episode. It didn't have the over the top shock elements or the "this scene would be much better if you get your tits out there love" pointless elements of recent episodes. It was all about character development.

I really liked Tywin in this one. I thought his council meeting added to last week's ending of the torture shows where Tyrion gets his character traits.

I thought both Bran and Arya are really starting to grow up. Bran holding court and making military decisions and Arya in effect ordering an execution. These two characters should be templates on how children's characters can be included in a good story without destroying the whole concept (e.g. Terra Nova).

I think the Daenerys storyline has finally moved on. Lets face it dragons or not she's not going to get into the game for the iron throne wandering around the desert. That said I'm not sure where the whole love interest with Sir Jorah is going. If she rejects the billionaire (for want of a better word) offering to put her at the head of an army to return to wandering around with Jorah and a rag tag bunch of barbarians then she deserves to be written out of the story. Lets get the barbarian horde from Series 1 onto some boats and into the war in the seven kingdoms.

We didn't see much with the night's watch north of the wall but ithink that was the idea as at last we have some detail on the hidden danger they are facing. A huge army of ALL the "wildings" trained as a military force. I'm really looking forward to seeing this King Mace.

I'm not sure what to make of Theon. He seems a right gob****e. I can't see him as a leader of men even a bunch of pirates. Perhaps now that he has a strong right hand man (seems to be a trait of this show as Tyrion and Dany also have them) he will have someone to guide him but at the moment the show would be stronger if his crew just threw him overboard and let his father & sister take over that storyline.

But overall I think this was quite a good episode.

Syferus · 02-05-2012 1:22pm

What? It's Theon's betrayal that makes that storyline click, if not for him his sister and father might as well be faceless brigands.

touts · 02-05-2012 1:30pm

Syferus wrote: »

What? It's Theon's betrayal that makes that storyline click, if not for him his sister and father might as well be faceless brigands.

Perhaps but he is just coming across as an eegit being lead by whoever happens to be speaking to him at that time. First it was Ned. Then Robb. Then his Father. Now this new sidekick. Perhaps it is the actor. I just dont buy the character at all.

Zillah · 02-05-2012 1:51pm

Theon is a gobshte. That's his character.

touts · 02-05-2012 1:54pm

Zillah wrote: »

Theon is a gobshte. That's his character.

Well he's nailed on for an Emmy so.

Sleepy · 02-05-2012 2:20pm

Remember his background: handed over as a hostage at a young age to the Starks who treated him pretty kindly for a prisoner. He's brought up thinking he's very important: the heir to his father's status as Lord of the Iron Islands. He hasn't ever been taught much of the Iron Islanders ways though: the Ironborn don't respect lineage, they respect strength.

So, he had a fairly traumatic event as a young boy being handed over to the men who demolished his father's rebellion, he grows up believing he's far more important than he actually is, thought he was earning his own honour (as the Starks would have seen it) at Robb's side on the battlefield and then learns fairly harshly that his family regard him as having been "made soft" by the Starks.

He's playing the part quite well, imho. As a fan of the books I've actually warmed far more to Alfie Allen's portrayal of Theon than I did to the character as I read him.

Talisman · 02-05-2012 5:56pm

I watched the five episodes back to back - a bit of a head melter, I'm not sure what happened in what episode so forgive me if this is a bit all over the place.

Mod Edit: Veiled Book Spoilers

The second series seems a lot darker than the first - I can't help the feeling that none of the characters are "safe". In the first series it was obvious that Ned Stark was a lamb surrounded by wolves but the other characters were relatively safe - I don't see that happening this series. Maybe it's to do with now knowing how treacherous the whole realm is.

Theon Greyjoy's move against Winterfell is going to be his undoing. He's leading a band of pirates to the place he grew up. The crew don't take too well to being told what to do by a person they have no respect for. Theon probably thinks he'll get some kudos for capturing Winterfell when chances are they will burn the place to the ground. They are after all Theon's father's men and they certainly won't have a soft spot for the Starks - if Theon says don't touch the Stark kids he's likely to get sliced and diced himself.

I like the Brianne(?) character, she seems a bit simple minded but she's a lightning quick terminator with a sword. I'd put my money on her in a duel with Jamie Lannister or even The Mountain.

Tyrion Lannister certainly knows how to play the game at Kings Landing the way he flushed out Master Pycelle, but letting his lady friend become Sansa's hand maiden could be his undoing. Varys has conned him into placing her within the grasp of Cersei - exactly what Tyrion didn't want.

Anyone else think there is a parallel between Bran sending all his fit and able men to defend a village and the Night's Watch charging north of the Wall? I mean they've spelled out that the leader of the Wildlings used to be one of them, he knows how they operate and he is using that knowledge against them. What's to stop his army from circling around the men on the hill and heading straight for the Wall? There's no Night's Watch force there to defend it now - school boy error ala Brann.

By the looks of it, Daenerys won't be involved in the war for the Iron Throne for years - the dragons aren't exactly giant bean stalks in terms of growth spurts. But they seem to be the only hope of those south of the wall. The way to kill the reanimated dead is to burn them for which purpose having a dragon about would be handy unless Stannis Baratheon's Lady in Red (forget the name of the character) can fart flame clouds.

Judging by the volume of Wildfire stored at Kings Landing, the fleet of ships Stannis is sending in will be go the way of the Spanish Armada.

The Brotherhood - are they the men that Ned Stark sent to hunt down The Mountain and his men but were subsequently declared outlaws after Cersei seized power?

Final query - the guy who killed the Tickler was it my imagination or does he speak like the guy that was giving Arya dance lessons?

Blowfish · 02-05-2012 6:25pm

Talisman wrote: »

The Brotherhood - are they the men that Ned Stark sent to hunt down The Mountain and his men but were subsequently declared outlaws after Cersei seized power?

Yes.

Talisman wrote: »

Final query - the guy who killed the Tickler was it my imagination or does he speak like the guy that was giving Arya dance lessons?

They both came from the same city, namely Braavos.

Syferus · 02-05-2012 6:34pm

I imagine the dragons being more a recruitment tool than an actual weapon of war, especially unless they start procreating very fast. People will flock to her cause because she's the lineal queen and because she has dragons, it's those people that will give her a shot at winning.

Arnold Layne · 02-05-2012 8:53pm

Talisman wrote: »

I watched the five episodes back to back - a bit of a head melter, I'm not sure what happened in what episode so forgive me if this is a bit all over the place.

Methinks, thou has dabbled in the ASOFIAF, ser

Talisman · 03-05-2012 1:07am

Syferus wrote: »

I imagine the dragons being more a recruitment tool than an actual weapon of war, especially unless they start procreating very fast. People will flock to her cause because she's the lineal queen and because she has dragons, it's those people that will give her a shot at winning.

Surely the purpose of the dragons is to torch the armies/towns/castles etc. A dragon in full working order on a battle field would be absolutely devastating and terrify the **** out of the enemy. At present they aren't of much use and are simply trinkets.

Season 2 Episode 5 - *Have NOT Read the Books*

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Season 2 Episode 5 - Have NOT Read the Books