Right.....here it goes.

funky penguin · 29-11-2011 6:09am #1

I think I need to do this. I hate internet blogs, mainly because I always abandon them :pac:

However, I'm a long serving member of boards and so I'd imagine it would be VERY difficult for me to break the promise I'm about to make.

I'm not one for languages. How many times have people said that? I know I said it all through the Leaving Cert., which is why I sought out Ordinary French and Irish because I wasn't bothered. むずかしいですね！Or so I taught myself to believe. I just had no incentive or drive to learn them.

But now.....I'm throwing myself in the deep end. As much immersion as I possibly can. Anime, music, manga, chatting with Japanese people (read: women and barmen :P ). I'm mainly utilizing the famous ajatt website, but I find myself constantly looking for more and more Japanese.....

I want to see if it works. I NEED to see if it works. The progress I've seen in the last month is freightening. I can't believe how certain situations have become so much easier with the few words I've learned. I WANT MORE.

So, I'm making a promise here, on boards, to do as much as I can, as often as I can, and update this thread as much as I can.

There....I've said it.....no I have to do it, otherwise my reputation (on the ever busy Classical forum :pac:) will be completely ruined!

This is not a blog (although it may be a tool for me to keep my promise ^o^). This is an experiment. If other people want to reply with their difficulties and learning aims, do it!! In fact, let's use it as a collective 'what did you study today?' thread!

Gonna try for 20 new kanji today, using RtK.

Konata · 29-11-2011 8:43pm

Ah awesome, what a good idea! I'll probably be posting here every now and again too - Japanese is starting to get confusing in college >_>

Best of luck with the learning and I can't wait to hear how you're getting on!

Aard · 29-11-2011 11:42pm

Good luck with ajatt! I've tried it with another language... I failed! AFAIR, the chap behind that site managed fluency in 18 months. Not bad at all.

funky penguin · 30-11-2011 3:56am

Bang on! It was 18 months. His fluency definition was the ability to watch tv, read the paper and hold a natural conversation. In 18 months that's pretty fantastic alright.

Personally, I'm not giving myself a time limit, but I'd like to start seeing results in a year.

Aimed for 20 kanji, got 30. See how today goes.....

funky penguin · 30-11-2011 8:42am

Hit 100 altogether today, and decided that it's a nice time for reflection.

I seem to have about 90-95% retention rate on them, which I'm delighted with.

It's getting noticeably more difficult, but occasional kanji that just 'stick' without the need for a mnemonic makes life a whole lot easier.

I'm also doing a JET programme self study course, but it's only using romaji so far, so I've been neglecting it somewhat by speeding through the course work. I find it helps with everyday vocab I need here, so I'm happy with that.

Here's to the next 100.....

Konata · 30-11-2011 1:47pm

Ah, good stuff! I'm up to 75-85ish (We've done 75 in kanji class so far but there are other kanji that have come up in our grammar classes that I know) at the moment so should be hitting the 100 next week. I'm doing pretty good with them so far. Sometimes I forget the various readings of the characters but I find that seeing them in context helps a lot with that!

funky penguin · 30-11-2011 2:30pm

That's main problem with RtK, that I've personally found anyway. No context or stories, just mnemonics and primary English meaning.

Going to stick with this though and finish the book! Hopefully sometime around new years, then on to sentence SRS.

I also started the Japanese in Mangaland book today, so I'll update on that in a few days time! ^_^

triseke · 30-11-2011 10:29pm

I really should get back into learning. I was pretty dedicated over the summer but when work increased, it just dropped off.

This thread has renewed my urge to learn

funky penguin · 01-12-2011 8:34am

Another 40 down today. Hit a patch in RtK that was just a joy to learn with his mnemonics. Maybe for me specifically it was, I don't know.

Anyways, kanji of the day for me:

妙

Very easy to remember!

Giruilla · 01-12-2011 9:11am

funky penguin wrote: »

Another 40 down today. Hit a patch in RtK that was just a joy to learn with his mnemonics. Maybe for me specifically it was, I don't know.

Anyways, kanji of the day for me:

妙

Very easy to remember!

微妙！very useful explaining any situation that you don't really want to explain!

Good luck with the blog!

Konata · 01-12-2011 9:13am

^^ What does it mean, for those of us who haven't come across it yet?

funky penguin · 01-12-2011 9:43am

Heisig says to remember 'exquisite'.

I think by itself it means something more along the lines of 'strange', or 'unusual', or 'odd'.

Perhaps Giruilla could give a better translation?

Giruilla · 01-12-2011 11:18am

Its a great word and said a lot in everyday japanese. I guess it can be used in a lot of ways, but the most common way is it means something is a bit subtle or complicated. Like, 'its kind of hard to explain' or 'thats a delicate situation'.

So if someone say asks 'whats your relationship like with your boss?' and in fact you can't stand him but don't want to really say so... you can just say ’微妙です！’

Just Like Heaven · 01-12-2011 11:49am

I know about 200 kanji now but haven't used the heisig method, simply cause I wanna sit Japanese in the leaving cert in June and when I started going about it I didn't really know anything about the heisig method. Iv learnt a handful of kanji using the heisig book and it is soooo much faster, I'll definitely be using it all summer once I have more time.

Can anybody recommend a kanji dictionary? I'll get some money over Christmas and I want to spend it on something that doesn't contain 40% alcohol :pac:

just-joe · 01-12-2011 12:46pm

There is another post I wanted to write back to about learning kanji, been a bit busy studying for JLPT amongst other stuff, but for now I'll just reply to this. I would say there are many books out there much much better than the JET course so if you are going to use them, perhaps its better to use them only as a revision type activity. Pick any of the well known books (genki or mina no nihongo or japanese for busy people, there must be other ones too) as they are way better. I wouldn't say don't use them at all, but I doubt it would harm you if you didn't.

Yeah thats a nice kanji, also used in "妙高", Myoko which is in the city of Niigata prefecture. I guess it means strange heights, or something similar? Really beautiful place and one of the best places in Japan to ski.

thechanger · 06-12-2011 11:11am

OP, I admire your motivation. How do you seem to remember so many kanji a day and when did you start studying?

I really need a kick start concerning my study plan. I started learning Japanese, embarrassingly, 4 years ago. I say embarrassingly because after learning of someone becoming fluet after 18 months, I feel my level is brutal. I haven't been studying the whole time and hit my fair share of walls, not to mention work and lack of time being a factor.

I need some goals and direction. In the past I've used and still do:

JapanesePod101 - Brilliant introduction to the japanese, but feel I need to listen to each episode 10 times for the vocab and grammar to sink in – sometimes the conversations at the start are pointless until you know the vocabulary. After using Michael Thomas to revisit French, I find most other language packages treat you like a parrot, and in doing so, makes it incredibly difficult to go from beginner/elementary to intermediate.
Pimsleur - Just started with this. Doing it from the beginning as a refresher and trying to do a lesson a day during my lunch break. Bit slow but good listening practice. I find having a foundation in the language helps, and it's helping me fix my grammar errors. However if I was a total virgin to the language, I wouldn't recommend solely using this method.
Reading/writing: Just got the Heisig book, and I'm going to start again on the kanji. About two years ago, I suppose I knew about 400 of the little buggers however I've forgotten a lot. In the past I've also used Genki which I recommend. Other kanji books I can speak highly about are: Let's Learn Kanji and Easy Kanji (Handy little paperback for the train, uses a similar approach to Heisig to introduce 300 of the basics and how the characters evolved in China).
Nintendo DS: Tadashii Kanji Kaki to Rikun is also a good supplement. Available from Play-Asia.

I never heard of ajatt – thanks for the link. I'll come back again with updates, maybe a list of good Japanese movies to watch. All help appreciated.

funky penguin · 06-12-2011 3:06pm

The Heisig method, pure and simple!

I was quite sick over the weekend, so tried to keep up, but it was slow going. Reached 200 today.

My favourite, purely for it's simplicity:

森

Forest!

EDIT: Hoping for 250-275 by the weekend.

funky penguin · 07-12-2011 7:55am

222 today.

Sorry thecharger, I never answered a question!

I started around the beginning of November, but only started the ajatt method about a week and a half ago.

No idea if it's going to work, but sure we'll see! Mainly trying to have fun with it.

word for the day, calendar.

暦

[SIZE="7"]暦[/SIZE]

funky penguin · 13-12-2011 1:48pm

279.

Finished part 1 of Heisig. From now on, he starts to filter out his own stories, and forces you to come up with images.

I found over the last week I may have been progressing a little too quickly, so I slowed it down a bit. Still, I'm about 1/8 the way through and have about a 95% success rate on the SRS (using ANKI).

Have a huge flight on Friday to look forward too.....Heisig will be my companion!

I also might start looking at the Mangaland series, to branch out a bit.

Also, I've come to realise that nothing is better than acing a really tough kanji after a few days of learning.

Just Like Heaven · 13-12-2011 3:40pm

My only problem with anki is having to sit down and actually do it everyday...

funky penguin · 15-12-2011 9:08am

I might get the app, I've heard it's decent.

311

Going on quite a lengthy flight tonight/tomorrow, will be travelling for about 24 hours altogether. So, I'd imagine this and jet lag will play a huge part in me NOT gaining ground on this anytime soon.

Just Like Heaven · 22-12-2011 9:33pm

So has all progress ceased for christmas?

funky penguin · 22-12-2011 11:35pm

320! :P

haha! I won't lie, the xmas season has had it's effect! But honestly, the flight over is still lingering and I'm trying my best to just revise every day.

The revision is happening, but visiting people, going up and down from Wexford to Maynooth is having too much of a toll on my progression.

Ultimately, I'm happy that I can still remember the 320. But.....

It's an interesting point I suppose....is the removal from Japan effecting my studies? We'll see.......I'm going to aim for 400 kanji NEXT weekend. Completely doable.

Let's see! ^_^

funky penguin · 24-12-2011 1:48pm

352! (^o^)

Tristram · 29-12-2011 12:26am

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

My only problem with anki is having to sit down and actually do it everyday...

I can relate to that. Anki is amazing and can generate amazing short-turn returns but I found that without testing and re-enforcing what I had learned through writing the kanji I wasn't truly "learning" to the extent that I hoped.

funky penguin · 29-12-2011 3:03pm

I try to write all my 'Ankiing' out, or at the very least 'draw' the kanji in my hand with my finger. I've noticed most Japanese people do this when trying to remember a kanji.

363, falling behind a little, but I don't mind because of the holidays. Back to Japan in a week from today, so it should be a kick in the arse.

Saying that, I think I can reach 400 by the weekend.

I think...... :pac:

Aard · 29-12-2011 4:38pm

I found when I was doing Anki I'd have to take a breather every few weeks to consolidate what I'd learnt, otherwise I'd start forgetting a few. It's probably easier if you're in Japan and immersed in the language and kanji though...

funky penguin · 31-12-2011 11:23am

Yeah, and I reached a point where Heisig advises doing this, so I obliged him.

380, and I don't think with the weekend that's in it I will be able to get another 20, but I'm happy enough with that!

funky penguin · 08-01-2012 11:13pm

I'm now on 400 and just back in Japan.

Progress has been slow, but I'm attributing that to the increased amount of kanji, the jet lag, the birthday celebrations and the expected home sickness!

I think I should use the next few days/week to revise the 400.

funky penguin · 10-01-2012 5:06am

Oh Lord, Christmas trip to Ireland really took it's toll. My sessions today have been the worst by far. I think consolidation is definitely the key for a few days.

Aard · 10-01-2012 1:24pm

400 is a lot for a year, let alone a few months. Especially if you've just started on the whole kanji thing from scratch. Perhaps start to learn how to use some of the ones you've learnt in words. Everybody's different, but I've always found that learning is made easier if you go broad and deep in equal measure. You have a very broad range of kanji in your head, but (afaik, so apologies if not!) it's probably pretty superficial knowledge with limited practical application. Learning a few words to fit the kanji into will help strengthen and build on what you've learnt, as well as acting a way of avoiding getting pissed off knowing reams of characters but not knowing what to do with them!

funky penguin · 11-01-2012 9:26am

You've just described exactly where I am. I was looking at the ajatt website and I might start doing some sentences. It's killing me that I can write the kanji for superfluous (for example), but can barely string a conversation together! :pac:

Today I revised all 400. Being back in Japan and in the work environment helps a lot.

funky penguin · 27-01-2012 6:24am

475

I feel like this week I finally got back into the swing of things.

The trip home completely threw me off sync with my Japanese life!!

I've finally started branching into the sentence and grammar areas, but not pushing myself too hard (I'm trying to have fun after all!). Started Assassin's Creed 2 in Nihongo as well. It'll be interesting to see how that fairs....

Unfortunately, I also seem to have become addicted to Song of Ice and Fire series!!! It's a fine balance trying to read English and immerse yourself in Japanese!

funky penguin · 31-01-2012 9:58am

I got to 483 yesterday (monday), and started to feel a little ill.

After lunch my school was closed down, the children sent home because of a heavy percentage of the kids having the flu. The teachers stayed of course (???).......and now I have インフルエンザ...... >_<

Can't bring myself to study, so I'm playing Assassin's Creed 2 in Japanese.....that's studying, right? :pac:

Just Like Heaven · 03-02-2012 5:31pm

Influenza seems to be really common in Japan?

funky penguin · 04-02-2012 3:11am

Hey, and they take it quite seriously. When I called to say I was sick, they told me to stay home all week. I rang on Thursday to say I was fine, but they didn't want to risk me infecting anyone. Fair enough I suppose, with so may kids and no bloody insulation (meaning really cold corridors and REALLY warm classrooms), the flu seems to spread quite rapidly when it arrives.

Also....I refuse to wear the surgical face masks. Zay do naaaaahsing!

Aard · 05-02-2012 9:00pm

I was told that the whole wearing facemasks thing was about not giving your infection to somebody else, rather than to avoid catching one yourself.

funky penguin · 05-02-2012 11:34pm

It's mostly a courtesy thing, to show people you're sick and avoid spreading it.

However, in this flu season, more people are wearing one to avoid catching a sickness as well, so it works both ways.

funky penguin · 07-02-2012 6:28am

Flu is almost all gone, so reached 508 today.

It's the end of the 2nd section of his book and from now on, it's mainly primitive words, with no story. It's up to me to make them now!

I suppose it's time for reflection since I'm now about a quarter of the way through the book.

I can't pinpoint if my lack of comparitive progress in the last month or so is more to do with going home for Xmas or the fact that I'm learning the kanji rather quickly, so my pace naturally slowed down to cope.

I honestly think it was going home. It took a good few weeks to get back into the groove and the way I felt about the language back in late November/early December. I think I'm making my way back there now, but it'll be a while.

Let's over estimate that I completed 1/4 of the book in 2 and a 1/2 months. I would certainly be happy with having it finished in 7-8 months time. But I think I can do it quicker! (^-^)v

funky penguin · 21-02-2012 3:46pm

555! Beginning to realise that anki can help SO much if I just let it do its job.

Used to get so pissed off if I missed a card. Now I realise that 70% of 500 cards is better than 80% of 200. I have to remember that I will continue with the rtk deck after I finish the book, and the percentage will rise once I do my srs every day.

hibby · 22-02-2012 10:31am

I'm impressed with your dedication. The key to using Heisig seems to be to stick with it.

I haven't used the Heisig method myself, though I have the book, and I have found it really helpful in some ways.

Heisig says that eventually you get to a stage where you don't really need to think about the English names of the "primitives" so much - you get familiar enough with the forms that when you see a new kanji you immediately break it down into the familiar building blocks. You are still using visual memory but not necessarily in the form of a "story".

I often wonder if some people use Heisig in its purest form - literally start out by spending months learning the meanings of thousands of kanji before learning any Japanese at all - and what their experience is.

funky penguin · 27-02-2012 9:23am

I feel like my head is about to explode with stories.....

600.

funky penguin · 01-03-2012 6:45am

636

About to hit a monster lesson with over a 100 kanji in it.

Everytime I start an are revision, I dread what percentage I'll get, always thinking its going to be bad. But or some reason I tend to pull through them quite well. I think as I'm progressing, I'm not aware of how much this method is actually effecting me and my memory. Also, srs us geeeeeeeeat! ϵ( 'Θ' )϶

funky penguin · 06-03-2012 3:38am

674, aiming for about 750 by the end of the week.

Also....I've started doing sentences. :eek: More fun thatn I thought it'd be! Plus since I have native speakers around me in work, it's a great opportunity to be sure of correct grammar. One teacher finds it hilarious that I keep asking for the informal versions.

'But, foreign people always use 'masu'...?' (´Д` )

funky penguin · 06-03-2012 7:28am

Scratch that, 700.

just-joe · 06-03-2012 12:13pm

what do ya mean by doing sentences? as in, writing sentences using kanji?

funky penguin · 06-03-2012 1:21pm

I ask the teacher I work with to give me the informal way of saying a sentence in Japanese.

Then I input it into my anki srs. The 'answer' side has furigana for the kanji and an explanation for any difficult grammar points, as well as a translation in English.

I'm also going to start looking at certain books for sentences. For example, a book I have on Japanese particles. I might grab a sentence for each particle it describes.

raz789 · 08-03-2012 10:37am

Try Tae Kim's guide to grammar for particle's.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
Best of all it's free! And there's a PDF
I find it more interesting than normal books.

funky penguin · 08-03-2012 1:49pm

Excellent! There's a free app as well!

My iPhone has been a bit of a hero in this language business, and I don't know where I'd be without it. Midori, Anki, Kotaba.......very handy to have it all on the auld 携帯電話！

Thank you!

raz789 · 08-03-2012 7:56pm

Which grammar book do you use?
I've tried Genki but I did get a little bored, dunno what it was about Tae Kim's guide that made it interesting.

RTK is a challenge(though way better than any other method) and I'm gonna try it again hopefully...

Also be careful with Anki on the iPhone, some have complained of data loss, if you have an account to sync I recommend using it regularly.

funky penguin · 09-03-2012 2:58am

Can't remember the name of the particle book, I'm currently in my second school and I left it at my base school, but I'll post it as soon as I can. It's not the most entertaining thing to be honest, but it gets the job done. I think I might branch out and look at teh Mangaland books for sentences.

Also, I just bought Mass Effect 1 for the XBox in Japanese. I'm going to attempt slogging through it the ajatt way and see if it yeilds any results.

The last 2 days at work were penciled in for being very quiet, but in typical Japanese High School fashion, they got busy with basically no notice. So, I've been stuck on 700 for the last 2 days which is frustrating, as I was getting in a groove. I'll see how many I can get done today, it's practice for graduation and I'm free for a good 5 hours.

Re: the iPhone anki. I've heard that! And it happened to me the first time I tried syncing, which is lucky as it made me wary. With the iPhone anki, I tend to use it for 5 mins if I'm waiting for a bus, waiting for a meeting etc. Passes teh time and I'm learning (hopefully).

I also got addicted to KPP thanks to my students:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXKLbk9keKE

Don't judge me, it's all in the name of immersion!! :pac:

Right.....here it goes.

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