Referendum re: Oireachtas inquiries

Plumpynutt · 23-10-2011 8:23pm

I'll be voting No on this one

saa · 23-10-2011 8:45pm

sheesh wrote: »

dude new you need to read this stuff yourself to make an informed decision.

Don't be so insensitive! This man could be blind, missing a leg and smelling of old newspapers for all you know.

EI_Flyboy · 23-10-2011 10:01pm

The thing is working as a judge is a huge paycut for a barrister or solicitor already and no judge can hope to earn as much as a top barrister or top solicitor. You pay peanuts you may just end up with monkies in a very sensitive job which requires someone of very sound judgement. It might also open them up to bribery either from criminals or from politicians who threaten them with a paycut if they hand down the wrong judgement. For the most part they do a great job and they deal with the lowest order of society on a daily basis, cutting their pay is playing with fire.

Ask yourself why anyone would want to be a politician? "You know what this country needs? It needs me!" They've all got to have thought that at some point or else they're purely out to feather their own nests and damn the rest of us. Would you really trust someone with those attitudes to investigate anything in anyway serious...? I know their are a few who genuinely want to do good but they always end up getting shafted before too long...

bleg · 23-10-2011 11:31pm

On the week in politics now.

For Paws · 25-10-2011 10:51pm

Lots of folk convinced that politicians will lose the complete run of themselves, trampling on people's constitutional rights in the process, a la Senator Joe McCarthy chairing The House Commitee on Un-American Activities.
On the other hand, scurrillous characters with deep pockets and well paid lawyers facing old friends appointed to the bench years before, well able to fend off 'justice' by the use of the law itself.
I reckon a better thought out amendment might be the best option.

randylonghorn · 25-10-2011 11:00pm

For Paws wrote: »

I reckon a better thought out amendment might be the best option.

I could easily live with that.

As I said somewhere else, this one looks as if it was thrown together in five minutes.

Alice1 · 25-10-2011 11:18pm

Soooo, if (for argument's sake) the change is defeated and we all vote "no", will we have a repeat of the Lisbon Treaty thing? Will there be a second referendum?

Eight former Attorneys General are against the amendment in its current format - that says something about it. The Minister for Justice dismissed their opinion as "nonsense" - that says something about him.

Think I'll be voting no.

randylonghorn · 26-10-2011 3:38am

Alice1 wrote: »

Soooo, if (for argument's sake) the change is defeated and we all vote "no", will we have a repeat of the Lisbon Treaty thing? Will there be a second referendum?

At least if there is, Alice, it might be with a better wording that someone has thought about, rather than something I reckon the minister must have scribbled on the back of an envelope before he got up to speak.

Interesting that three of them were AGs to Fine Gael governments, isn't it?!! Says a lot, tbh.

sensibleken · 26-10-2011 9:48am

Alice1 wrote: »

Soooo, if (for argument's sake) the change is defeated and we all vote "no", will we have a repeat of the Lisbon Treaty thing? Will there be a second referendum?

Eight former Attorneys General are against the amendment in its current format - that says something about it. The Minister for Justice dismissed their opinion as "nonsense" - that says something about him.

Think I'll be voting no.

Hopfully so. Ie if its voted down then they ask the people why and they change it or clarify it accordingly and ask again then there is nothing wrong with that. Most people only have an objection to subsection 4.

Thrill · 29-10-2011 8:18pm

Referendum defeated.

There were 812,008 votes in favour and 928,175 against.

My name is URL · 29-10-2011 8:20pm

Everything's comin' up Millhouse!

Wertz · 29-10-2011 8:22pm

Thanks be to f*ck...and to think of all those handing back ballot papers and effectively spoiling votes instead of marking No...

Mark200 · 29-10-2011 8:35pm

Wertz wrote: »

Thanks be to f*ck...and to think of all those handing back ballot papers and effectively spoiling votes instead of marking No...

Yeah those damn people who thought it might have been irresponsible to vote on something that they weren't knowledgeable about.

sgb · 29-10-2011 8:44pm

Wait for a rerun, the past has shown that if a referendum is not passed the government will run it again, in other words do it again and get it right this time

Wertz · 29-10-2011 8:46pm

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah those damn people who thought it might have been irresponsible to vote on something that they weren't knowledgeable about.

...but haven't the gumption to realise that if they aren't knowledgeable about it, that defaulting to No is the safest thing they can do in that situation.
At least we can be grateful that they didn't simply go with what the politicians wnated them to do...

Killer Pigeon · 29-10-2011 8:53pm

Thrill wrote: »

Referendum defeated.

There were 812,008 votes in favour and 928,175 against.

It'll be put back to the people again until the people at last vote 'Yes', just like Lisbon and Nice. It's "democracy" with a gun at your back.

In IMF Ireland, ballot box votes for you!

Drumpot · 29-10-2011 9:31pm

Wertz wrote: »

...but haven't the gumption to realise that if they aren't knowledgeable about it, that defaulting to No is the safest thing they can do in that situation.
At least we can be grateful that they didn't simply go with what the politicians wnated them to do...

Agreed . . I sent everybody I know a text to educate themselves on the referendum and asked if they werent sure exactly what powers they could potentially be giving their government, that they would consider voting no . .

If any government wants to grant itself extra powers, it should show its people respect and explain the pro's and con's, otherwise it is simply treating its people with contempt and trying to fool them into signing something they couldnt possibly understand.

This referendum was a joke, a sham, a con from the start and it was sold to the people as a way to haul bankers for a public caning and simply reducing judges pay . . I know what would be said if FF tried the same stunts that FG were up to, the way this referendum was "pitched" to the Irish people was little short of criminal. . .

Mark200 · 29-10-2011 9:55pm

Wertz wrote: »

...but haven't the gumption to realise that if they aren't knowledgeable about it, that defaulting to No is the safest thing they can do in that situation.
At least we can be grateful that they didn't simply go with what the politicians wnated them to do...

Yep, the default position is <whatever result I want>.

If they aren't knowledgeable about something then they should either not vote, or get knowledgeable before they do vote.

And it was annoying to see the no campaigners saying "If you aren't sure, just vote no". It would be a lot more satisfying and responsible of them to say "If you aren't sure, please read up on the issue" instead of trying to take advantage of ill-informed people.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 29-10-2011 9:58pm

Very glad to see this defeated, its vital to maintain the separation of powers.

Biggins · 29-10-2011 10:33pm

Thrill wrote: »

Referendum defeated.

There were 812,008 votes in favour and 928,175 against.

http://www.thejournal.ie/amendment-on-oireachtas-inquiries-is-defeated-267543-Oct2011/

THE RESULT OF the referendum on extending powers to Oireachtas committees to hold inquiries has been defeated.

The returning officer at the National Count Centre in Dublin Castle has just announced the following figures for the referendum on the 29th Amendment to the Constitution:

Total of votes cast – 1,785,208
Total spoiled votes – 45,025
Total valid votes – 1,740,183
Votes in favour/ ‘Yes’ - 812,008 (46.7%)
Votes against/ ‘No’ - 982,175 (53.3%)

Earlier today, Brendan Howlin – the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform – suggested to reporters at Dublin Castle that this won’t necessarily be the last we hear of the issue.
He said that “if it is defeated, we’re going to have to think again about how we’re going to get our reform agenda back on track”.

The minister said that the referendums – the one on judicial pay passed earlier this evening by a majority of one million votes - had been lost in the “backdrop of controversy” surrounding the Presidential election. He also said that the public clearly had an “appetite for reform” as evidence by the change of Government in the February general election and he would continue to pursue reforms in the Constitution and in law.

As with the judicial pay enquiry, there was a large number of spoiled votes: 45,025 in this case. (There were 37,696 spoiled in the judicial pay poll.)
More people voted in the Presidential election than did in the judicial pay referendum or in the Oireachtas inquiries referendum.

So by the looks of things, they will be making us vote again!
Sound familiar?

Dyr · 29-10-2011 11:26pm

Howlins a conniving little weasel. The referendums weren't lost, he tried to sneak them in under the radar hoping people would just vote "whatever". The fact that the judicial pay one passed but the one giving moar powarz to the likes of him was blown out would suggest that he was rumbled.

Of course they'll try to give it another go, such contempt for the will of the people is not surprising given the labour parties attitude towards the constitution is like that of a vampires to garlic.

Napper Hawkins · 30-10-2011 4:36pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Are any of you registered to vote? :P

I wish I wasn't.

My name is URL · 30-10-2011 4:40pm

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

I am. So is it yes or no for you?

I voted no to both

dsmythy · 30-10-2011 4:42pm

I voted no but if they put a better proposal before me I might vote yes depending on what it is. If they shove the same question in front of me I'll make sure to get out to vote no against it again.

Napper Hawkins · 30-10-2011 4:55pm

My name is URL wrote: »

I voted no to both

Great, I'd have voted yes because I still have no idea what it was about despite asking already. Don't have the patience to read a load of waffle, too busy enjoying my weekend.

My name is URL · 30-10-2011 5:00pm

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Great, I'd have voted yes because I still have no idea what it was about despite asking already. Don't have the patience to read a load of waffle, too busy enjoying my weekend.

Well the reason it was defeated is because many people around the country also had little or no idea what it was about. I'm not sure why you would have voted in favor of something you didn't understand. Each to their own, though

mikemac · 30-10-2011 5:06pm

Howlin is no different to the last crowd in power.
We replaced a weasel from Waterford with another from Wexford

The referendum was defeated and now he thinks we were distracted or didn't understand it.
He thinks we know nothing

We'll be voting on this again soon enough until they get the result they want

I think I read somewhere there is another referendum planned for next February

30-10-2011 5:07pm

For Paws wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten what triggered this proposed change ?; the so-called Abbeylara enquiry, where a group of Gardai involved in a 'legal' killing were able to go to court to prevent our political representatives from enquiring into a matter about which a great number of ordinary people were concerned.

Lol, the Abbeylara Committee in the Dail was a disgrace. Howlin and Shatter were both on it of course. They breached so many basic principles of justice and fair procedures it was unreal.

Napper Hawkins · 30-10-2011 5:13pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Well the reason it was defeated is because many people around the country also had little or no idea what it was about. I'm not sure why you would have voted in favor of something you didn't understand. Each to their own, though

Understanding it isn't my problem, giving a damn maybe..

I just don't get how yet again we've been asked to vote on something the majority cannot or will not understand. Did we learn nothing from that Lisbon ****e?

lcrcboy · 30-10-2011 6:13pm

Glad it did not pass it was undemocratic

Referendum re: Oireachtas inquiries

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