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New militarized flu spreading like wildfire in Mexico City

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    #32
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    According to this article frpm a Patricia A. Doyle DVM, PhD Bus Admin, Tropical Agricultural Economics Univ of West Indies, Taking the Swine Flu Vaccine is not such a good idea.

    http://rense.com/general85/vacc.htm


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    #33
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    That's right kids take medical advice from a random website that promotes alt med and is against vaccinations.


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    #34
    GhostInTheRuins
    Registered Users Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    According to this article frpm a Patricia A. Doyle DVM, PhD Bus Admin, Tropical Agricultural Economics Univ of West Indies, Taking the Swine Flu Vaccine is not such a good idea.

    http://rense.com/general85/vacc.htm

    What the hell? How could any sane person trust that website for medical advice?


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    #35
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    GhostInTheRuins wrote: »
    What the hell? How could any sane person trust that website for medical advice?
    Personally I will take a rat or my locak politician to the doctor with me to beta test the vaccine before I would take it. :)


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    #36
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Personally I will take a rat or my locak politician to the doctor with me to beta test the vaccine before I would take it. :)

    You have evidence that a politician didn't have there children vaccinated?


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    #37
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    I'm pretty reluctant to get involved in a conspiracy theories debate, to be honest. But here's some info on thimerosal.

    http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/ABOUT/QA/thimerosal.htm

    A CDC study will not convince a conspiracy theorist about vaccination being safe tallaght01.


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    #38
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Just to row in here for a Sec.

    I can vouch for Tallagh01, he is an actual doctor, A Paediatrician if memory serves.

    But Tallagh, SKG had a good question there, how effective would the flu shot you have gotten be against something like this which is a new strain of flu, surely its nothing more than a placebo, and therefore more dnagerous as it would give people a false sense of security, or is there something in the shot you recieved that makes you think it would innoculate you against this strain???


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    #39
    nodolan
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭nodolan


    GhostInTheRuins wrote: »
    What the hell? How could any sane person trust that website for medical advice?
    Okay...so what website would you trust?

    The BBC?

    Interesting report there this morning talking about kids with eczema taking a bath with bleach in it:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8015995.stm

    What I found ironic (apart from using bleach in your bath) was the comment of the doctor (who stopped the research because 'they saw such rapid improvement' - go figure):

    "We presume the bleach has antibacterial properties and decreased the number of bacteria on the skin, which is one of the drivers of flares."

    We presume? So you don't actually know what's going on then doc? Why did they start using bleach in the first place? They did it because it was being done in a some poor countries who couldn't afford the massive costs of the meds from big pharma - plus there were some people using bat droppings (which are high in ammonia). Bet you those people treating themselves with bleach or bat droppings were told they were mad in the first instance.

    :rolleyes:

    edit: I see this morning that over 100 have died in Mexico but here on the BBC website in the 'Have Your Say' bit doctors (who'd have thunk it) are saying that the chaos and death rate is being grossly under-reported:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8018428.stm

    Mirrored here:

    http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/health/disease/news.php?q=1240767636

    In answer to other questions posed on this topic - there is no vaccine for this particular flu and regular flu vaccinations that people have taken are ineffective:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103490792

    They keep calling it Swine Flu but it isn't technically Swine Flu - it's a unique combination of Human, Avian and Swine Flu - on a lighter note does this mean that pigs are flying?
    It turns out this virus is highly unusual, a quadruple reassortant. The genes of a flu virus are packaged in eight discrete segments. When two flu viruses infect the same host cell, the segments of each are copied and repackaged, 8 at a time, in new viral particles which then bud off from the infected cell. They then may infect a new host cell. In this repackaging process the segments of the two different viruses may mix and match, so that new virus particle will have segments from two different viruses. The new virus is, in a sense, not just a swine flu virus. It does have viral segments characteristic of two different families of swine flu, one typical of North America, where swine flu is endemic, and one typical of pig flu viruses from Europe and Asia. But we learned today that it also has viral segments seen in North American birds and in human seasonal influenza.
    http://engineering.curiouscatblog.net/2009/04/26/swine-flu-a-quick-overview/

    MSNBC CDC Briefing:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30420188#30420188


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    #40
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Cheers Mahatma. I also do public health. so am also heavily involved in outbreak management. Been keeping me working crazy hours the last few days!

    To answer your question, you're absoloutely right about a "flu" vaccine. Essentially, we don't have a vaccine against this new swine flu. So, whatever people tell you about the danger of the vaccine is nonsense, as a vaccine doesn't exist.

    You're also right about the lack off effectiveness of the normal flu vaccine against this virus. We haven't tried to vaccinate people with normal flu virus to protect them against the new swine flu. Though we do know that vaccinating against one type of flu sometimes protects against other types. But as things stand, we're urgently trying to make a vaccine against this new virus. BUt we don't have one yet.
    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    Just to row in here for a Sec.

    I can vouch for Tallagh01, he is an actual doctor, A Paediatrician if memory serves.

    But Tallagh, SKG had a good question there, how effective would the flu shot you have gotten be against something like this which is a new strain of flu, surely its nothing more than a placebo, and therefore more dnagerous as it would give people a false sense of security, or is there something in the shot you recieved that makes you think it would innoculate you against this strain???


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    #41
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Kernel wrote: »
    I did, I asked two - and they didn't know what thymerosol was (not used in the EU anymore fyi), what preservatives (if any) were used, or any figures re: adverse reactions from vaccinations. Greeeeat. I think many GP's are almost robotic in their drive to get people to take vaccinations. Herd immunity for the win!

    As for flu shots, from my experience of people who take those shots; you get sick.

    Do you know what a vaccine is? Serious question, just describe it.


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    #42
    nodolan
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭nodolan


    It has just been confirmed that there is a case of it in Spain.

    The incompetence of the Irish government makes me weak as to what will happen here if it gets here.


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    #43
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Do you know what a vaccine is? Serious question, just describe it.

    Yes I understand what a vaccine is, however the goal is not to make you sick. The goal is to administer a low enough doseage or a harmless strain in order to provoke an immune response to prevent the body being susceptible to a full dose. Does that answer your point?


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    #44
    nodolan
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭nodolan


    On the Take
    How Medicine's Complicity with Big Business Can Endanger Your Health
    Jerome P. Kassirer

    Description

    We all know that doctors accept gifts from drug companies, ranging from pens and coffee mugs to free vacations at luxurious resorts. But as the former Editor-in-Chief of The New England Journal of Medicine reveals in this shocking expose, these innocuous-seeming gifts are just the tip of an iceberg that is distorting the practice of medicine and jeopardizing the health of millions of Americans today.

    In On the Take , Dr. Jerome Kassirer offers an unsettling look at the pervasive payoffs that physicians take from big drug companies and other medical suppliers, arguing that the billion-dollar onslaught of industry money has deflected many physicians' moral compasses and directly impacted the everyday care we receive from the doctors and institutions we trust most. Underscored by countless chilling untold stories, the book illuminates the financial connections between the wealthy companies that make drugs and the doctors who prescribe them. Kassirer details the shocking extent of these financial enticements and explains how they encourage bias, promote dangerously misleading medical information, raise the cost of medical care, and breed distrust.

    A brilliant diagnosis of an epidemic of greed, On the Take offers insight into how we can cure the medical profession and restore our trust in doctors and hospitals.

    Product Details
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    About the Author(s)

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    http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Economics/Health/~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTMwMDA0OA==

    Who's teaching the doctors? Drug firms sponsor required courses - and see their sales rise
    by Dan Vergano, USA Today (March 9, 2000)

    At first glance, Harvard Medical School and advertising giant Omnicom Group seem to have little in common. But they share one trait: the right to award medical education credits that doctors need to keep their licenses in 34 states.

    Omnicom, working through subsidiary Pragmaton, is one of a growing number of advertising and marketing firms that provide continuing medical education (CME) courses for physicians. The firms are fully accredited, but because the marketing firms often are working for pharmaceutical companies, the practice increasingly is setting off ethical alarms.

    "It is unconscionable," says Catherine De Angelis, editor in chief of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    Marketing firms "advertise wares under the guise of medical education," she says.

    http://www.pharmadisclose.org/cme/ut000309.html


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    #45
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Kernel wrote: »
    Yes I understand what a vaccine is, however the goal is not to make you sick. The goal is to administer a low enough doseage or a harmless strain in order to provoke an immune response to prevent the body being susceptible to a full dose. Does that answer your point?

    Yep. Given the fact that you are intentionally administering someone with a weakened strain of an illness, why are you surprised that people come away with symptoms of sickness?

    This is the whole point. You teach the body to defend itself against the weak strain, so when the full-strength strain comes along, the body is prepared.

    The reason I asked you to explain it was because I foolishly believed that the penny would drop for you.

    Ah well...


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    #46
    strewelpeter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭strewelpeter


    derry wrote: »
    On medical questions MY OWN opinion is
    I WILL NEVER EVER TAKE A VACCINE
    as the evidence from sites I recognize as being correct like www.infowars.com show to me that VACINES ARE CONTANAMATED with other bizzare virus for a soft kill policy so for me the risk from vaccines is too high for me

    Others can do what they want on that issue


    Derry

    OK so you are entitled to your deranged ravings but will you please please do the human race a favour and have yourself sterilised before you breed.


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    #47
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    strewelpeter wrote: »
    OK so you are entitled to your deranged ravings but will you please please do the human race a favour and have yourself sterilised before you breed.

    Infraction for personal abuse. Please read the Charter.


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    #48
    Sofa_King Good
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭Sofa_King Good


    strewelpeter wrote: »
    OK so you are entitled to your deranged ravings but will you please please do the human race a favour and have yourself sterilised before you breed.

    CLASSY


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    #49
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    CLASSY

    SKG, report post if you have a problem. If you see its already been addressed please dont address the post.


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    #50
    strewelpeter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭strewelpeter


    Sofa_King Good wrote: »
    CLASSY

    OK I'll suck up the infraction but I seriously believe that it is a fair comment to make to anyone who is intransigent in their dangerously wrong opinions about vaccines.


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    #51
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Question to Derry:

    What if you are wrong and the fact that you not getting vaccinated led to you becoming sick and infecting many people, your family & friends, etc?


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    #52
    nodolan
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭nodolan


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Question to Derry:

    What if you are wrong and the fact that you not getting vaccinated led to you becoming sick and infecting many people, your family & friends, etc?
    Hmm sounds a lot like Pascal's Wager.


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    #53
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    Yep. Given the fact that you are intentionally administering someone with a weakened strain of an illness, why are you surprised that people come away with symptoms of sickness?

    This is the whole point. You teach the body to defend itself against the weak strain, so when the full-strength strain comes along, the body is prepared.

    The reason I asked you to explain it was because I foolishly believed that the penny would drop for you.

    Ah well...

    Perhaps I should spell it out more clearly to you.

    You get the flu shot, you get a very bad dose of flu.

    You don't get the flu shot, you don't get any dose.

    Hence my statement that people who get the flu shot get sick.

    No need for the smug replies either, if you want to engage in debate with conpiracy theorists on the conspiracy theories forum, then it would seem correct to use some manners, no?


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    #54
    themetallifan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭themetallifan


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    According to this article frpm a Patricia A. Doyle DVM, PhD Bus Admin, Tropical Agricultural Economics Univ of West Indies, Taking the Swine Flu Vaccine is not such a good idea.

    http://rense.com/general85/vacc.htm

    Yes, a vet with a PhD in Business really knows what she's talking about....

    I think I'll choose not to believe her though.

    The flu-vaccine is safe and you are endangering yourself and others if, when the time comes that there is a pandemic, you do not get immunised.


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    #55
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    themetallifan wrote: »
    The flu-vaccine is safe and you are endangering yourself and others if, when the time comes that there is a pandemic, you do not get immunised.

    There is no vaccine for the current H1N1 swine flu though. But hey, buy the vaccines if they make you feel safer. ;)


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    #56
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    Kernel wrote: »
    No need for the smug replies either, if you want to engage in debate with conpiracy theorists on the conspiracy theories forum, then it would seem correct to use some manners, no?


    If you have a problem with posts, then follow the charter's instructions and report them.

    If you are reporting the post, then don't comment in-thread.
    If you are not reporting the post, then you can't have a problem with it that's worth commenting about in-thread.


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    #57
    North_West_Art
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭North_West_Art


    King Mob wrote: »
    Wow. Militarised flu?
    Any evidence of this?

    Any evidence the BBC is controlled?

    There is some evidence alright... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNIm5HQo81c&feature=fvsr


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    #58
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Kernel wrote: »
    There is no vaccine for the current H1N1 swine flu though. But hey, buy the vaccines if they make you feel safer. ;)

    But no one is selling it yet.

    But we've heard all manner f accusations about it even though it's yet to exist.


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    #59
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    Kernel wrote: »

    You get the flu shot, you get a very bad dose of flu.

    ???????


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    #60
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    nodolan wrote: »
    Hmm sounds a lot like Pascal's Wager.

    I don't suppose that any pharmaceutical company is perfect but are you actually saying we shouldn't use vaccines?


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    #61
    J_Kerr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭J_Kerr


    tallaght01 wrote: »
    ???????

    The idea that vaccines are the virus is an urban myth isn't it?


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