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Bringing the banks and their lackies in Leinster House to heel.

  • 07-05-2009 8:46pm
    #1
    feoil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭


    Arrived home from work today to find a letter from my dear mortgage provider informing me that since my mortgage interest relief no longer applied they were happy to inform me that new repayments would be X, (100yoyos more than last month). Add to this my increased levy at the end of the month, leaves me wondering if anyone else is as f***ing angry as I am?.
    I'm posting this in the conspiracy forum for two reasons, 1) Fianna Fail is bailing it's banker/developer buddies out of the greatest ponzi scheme in history at our expense, whilst telling us otherwise and lies are the essence of conspiracy.
    2) I'm hoping that frequenters of such fora as this are motivated and active enough to try and right the wrongs of our world.

    The present government policy of taxing the bollix out of those who have been fortunate enough to hold onto their jobs seems to me to be straight out of the Mugabe school of economics. The more money taken out of an economy the more people lose their jobs, because there's less money to pay them. Cutting the xmas bonus to those who need is most at the time the need it most!. Children's allowance, old age medical cards etc etc. Yet they can find 90+billion for the banks. I guess we can be grateful that since we're in the euro Biffo can't just print more cash. Am I the only one who's pissed about this?
    Of course, we could march on Dail Erin and shout abuse at the state's thugs in full battle gear, or we could do something effective.

    What I am proposing is that we (the taxpayer) impose a ban on mortgage repayments for one month.
    I am looking to you for advise on organising such an event and other non-violent passive aggressive means of making our voices and opinion truly heard.


Comments

  • #2
    mickeydevine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭mickeydevine


    Your mortgage contract was between you and your provider. Chances are they've sold your monetary instrument (mortgage) on as part of a bundle (sub prime) so probably they no longer hold any rights to your property or to recieve payments since they no longer have any liability. You have no contract with the third party that has bought the mortgage therefore it is null and void.

    Do out a Notice of Understanding and a Claim of Right, get it notorised and send it to your provider giving them 10 days to reply. You will ask for a "true" bill (of sale) which if they've sold it on they will be unable to provide. Your NOUCOR, which is legally binding, if not replied to in the stated time will create an estoppel and you can then apply for a lien on your property which will leave you free and clear. Dont take it lying down.


  • #3
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Was it not covered enough on the news that all morgage interest relief is being suspended for two months, and that after that period only first time buyers and those with less that 7 years on their morgages will have it reinstated.

    Is it cruel, yes, but it is not a conspiracy.


  • #4
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    Your mortgage contract was between you and your provider. Chances are they've sold your monetary instrument (mortgage) on as part of a bundle (sub prime) so probably they no longer hold any rights to your property or to recieve payments since they no longer have any liability. You have no contract with the third party that has bought the mortgage therefore it is null and void.

    Do out a Notice of Understanding and a Claim of Right, get it notorised and send it to your provider giving them 10 days to reply. You will ask for a "true" bill (of sale) which if they've sold it on they will be unable to provide. Your NOUCOR, which is legally binding, if not replied to in the stated time will create an estoppel and you can then apply for a lien on your property which will leave you free and clear. Dont take it lying down.

    Most Irish mortgages weren't sold on like you describe, so getting out of a mortgage like that isn't really possible here. Not even sure that a Notice of Understanding and a Claim of Right exists in Ireland in the way you refer to.

    Are you in the legal game, or did you find that on a random website? Pretty sure if it was that easy a) everyone would be at it and/or b) the loophole would be closed.


  • #5
    mickeydevine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭mickeydevine


    thecommander wrote: »
    Most Irish mortgages weren't sold on like you describe, so getting out of a mortgage like that isn't really possible here. Not even sure that a Notice of Understanding and a Claim of Right exists in Ireland in the way you refer to.

    Are you in the legal game, or did you find that on a random website? Pretty sure if it was that easy a) everyone would be at it and/or b) the loophole would be closed.

    I did it for my sister, it works. We have notary publics over here as well.


  • #6
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    I did it for my sister, it works. We have notary publics over here as well.

    I know we have notary publics here, thats not what I commented on.

    You got a sister off a mortgage, without a bad credit rating and she kept house?


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  • #7
    feoil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭feoil


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Was it not covered enough on the news that all morgage interest relief is being suspended for two months, and that after that period only first time buyers and those with less that 7 years on their morgages will have it reinstated.

    Is it cruel, yes, but it is not a conspiracy.

    That isn't quite what i meant, this last dip into my wallet is simply the last straw. The conspiracy is that we are being made to pay for a ponzi scheme under the guise of "patriotic duty"


  • #8
    feoil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭feoil


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    Your mortgage contract was between you and your provider. Chances are they've sold your monetary instrument (mortgage) on as part of a bundle (sub prime) so probably they no longer hold any rights to your property or to recieve payments since they no longer have any liability. You have no contract with the third party that has bought the mortgage therefore it is null and void.

    Do out a Notice of Understanding and a Claim of Right, get it notorised and send it to your provider giving them 10 days to reply. You will ask for a "true" bill (of sale) which if they've sold it on they will be unable to provide. Your NOUCOR, which is legally binding, if not replied to in the stated time will create an estoppel and you can then apply for a lien on your property which will leave you free and clear. Dont take it lying down.

    Quite interesting and quite brilliant!. My mortgage is with one the main banks though, do you think they would have sold on these bundles or are they one of the banks that bought them? Thank you for such an insightful contribution! Bet your sister is pretty grateful to eh :D


  • #9
    mickeydevine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭mickeydevine


    thecommander wrote: »
    I know we have notary publics here, thats not what I commented on.

    You got a sister off a mortgage, without a bad credit rating and she kept house?

    You gotta play the game by their rules. Simple as. I think I've talked to you about this before and recommended you do some research on it. No point spoon feeding, you need to know what you're talking about.


  • #10
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    You gotta play the game by their rules. Simple as. I think I've talked to you about this before and recommended you do some research on it. No point spoon feeding, you need to know what you're talking about.

    Either you did or you didn't get your sister off paying her mortgage, without getting a bad credit rating and/or reposession.

    Still to this day I have been unable to find any real legal basis to claims of this sort. The music in the youtube videos puts me off.


  • #11
    mickeydevine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭mickeydevine


    What I did.

    1. Write to provider asking for bill, got no reply.

    2. Sent notorised letter asking for bill or proof that they had any liability in the contract, no reply.

    3. Sent letter instructing that direct debit would be cancelled, no reply.

    Cancelled direct debit, no payments, no repossession, no bad credit. Play their game.


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  • #12
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    What I did.

    1. Write to provider asking for bill, got no reply.

    2. Sent notorised letter asking for bill or proof that they had any liability in the contract, no reply.

    3. Sent letter instructing that direct debit would be cancelled, no reply.

    Cancelled direct debit, no payments, no repossession, no bad credit. Play their game.

    Where are the deeds?


  • #13
    mickeydevine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭mickeydevine


    thecommander wrote: »
    Where are the deeds?

    ;)


  • #14
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    mickeydevine wrote: »
    ;)

    I take it then they're still with the lender.

    So what has she achieved if Im to believe you? A fancy squatter?


  • #15
    feoil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭feoil


    thecommander wrote: »
    I take it then they're still with the lender.

    So what has she achieved if Im to believe you? A fancy squatter?

    That would do me!

    But I am not trying to get out of paying my debts. The banks are of course essential to our economy. However I do feel the "balance of power" leans too heavily in their favour. For example, people who opted for a fixed rate are being charged punitive penalties to change to the variable rate. Also banks aren't required to pass ECB interest rate cuts to their customers. I'm sure business people could tell more horror stories about trying to secure lines of credit, even though the taxpayer is supporting the banks. We are propping the banks up with very little tangible benefit to ourselves! This is what needs to be changed. I feel an outright "mortgage strike" would shift this balance back in favour of what the Americans call "Main St." i.e. us. Remember we hold their liquidity in our pockets.
    To further Mickeydevine's idea, imagine the administrative avalanche if we all demanded "bills of sale".

    People!, we are being rode sideways and this will only continue for as long as WE allow it


  • #16
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    feoil wrote: »
    That would do me!

    But I am not trying to get out of paying my debts. The banks are of course essential to our economy. However I do feel the "balance of power" leans too heavily in their favour. For example, people who opted for a fixed rate are being charged punitive penalties to change to the variable rate. Also banks aren't required to pass ECB interest rate cuts to their customers. I'm sure business people could tell more horror stories about trying to secure lines of credit, even though the taxpayer is supporting the banks. We are propping the banks up with very little tangible benefit to ourselves! This is what needs to be changed. I feel an outright "mortgage strike" would shift this balance back in favour of what the Americans call "Main St." i.e. us. Remember we hold their liquidity in our pockets.
    To further Mickeydevine's idea, imagine the administrative avalanche if we all demanded "bills of sale".

    People!, we are being rode sideways and this will only continue for as long as WE allow it

    When you sign up for a fixed rate mortgage, thats what you get, a fixed rate. if you want to change you have to pay the price, very simple. I didn't see people complaining about it when interest rates were higher than when they signed up. Will the people getting fixed rates now complain when the interest rate is pushed up in 18 months?

    Banks aren't required to pass the rates on, but they all have, so I can't see where the problem is. Interest rates are as low as they probably are going to get, so I dont see this as an issue.

    I run a small company with an average turnover for the size of it. I have had not one problem getting lines of credit, nor has anyone I know. I recently got a car loan by just talking to the bank manager. There's alot of talk out there that there's no credit but thats simply not true. The only difference is is that they are being stricter in who they lend to, which should have been the way all along. The media have latched onto this and ran with it rather than asking actual people in business.


  • #17
    feoil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭feoil


    Let's start with the fixed rates, a friend of mine was asked for the bones of 15,000euro to change to the variable rate, on 135,000euro mortgage!, If you can see fairness in that fair enough, I can't.

    Yes, most banks (except NIB) passed on recent cuts but could you imagine the uproar if they hadn't, but that isn't a problem, as you point out, especially since people on fixed rates are subsidising the cuts.

    And hey, good luck with the car, keep her twixt the ditches!. Most of the business people I know are to a greater or lesser degree involved in construction and i'd have to concede that they may be regarded as poor bets. However it is because of the taxpayer these banks are able to continue trading which to me implies a certain duty of care to the business infrastructure of this country. I am glad they are looking after you, you are afterall the class of people who'll get us out of this mess.


  • #18
    thecommander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    feoil wrote: »
    Let's start with the fixed rates, a friend of mine was asked for the bones of 15,000euro to change to the variable rate, on 135,000euro mortgage!, If you can see fairness in that fair enough, I can't.

    Shouldnt have signed up for a fixed rate mortgage without knowing what he was getting into. I know its its sickening paying more than you have to, but this is a business transaction. The bank have worked out a profit to make from each mortgage, and hedge the rates, and this is a risk they take on your behalf for a fee. If you decide you want out, you pay. Can't have it every way. Do you call your insurance company at the end of the year and ask for premium back because you didn't claim?


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