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is this enough

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Comments

  • #52
    Kernel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Bump, curious to see how the research is panning out.

    Ongoing, but promising.

    http://maxphoton.com/2007/05/23/how-thermite-was-used-in-the-controlled-demoliton-of-the-wtc-towers-to-heatweaken-spandrel-splices-by-paul-bouvet-may-23-2007.aspx


  • #53
    Nick_oliveri
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Nick_oliveri


    Oh you're gonna get it now. This could get ugly. :D

    I used to love his ramblings on Randi, every now and then you would get the feeling that this guy was thinking way outside of the box.
    His posting style was hilarious.

    (edited this post so as not to continue OT.)


  • #54
    bonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    MaxPhoton doesn't claim thermite was used to make horizontal cuts at all. He claims that it was used to weaken the steel. He stresses the point multiple times on that page, that thermite was not used to cut steel at all in the collapse.

    In fact, unless he's changed his position recently, Max has long argued that NIST got the collapse mechanism completely correct, except that it wasn't just the fires alone which weakened the steel, but rather the fires and thermite together.

    He agrees the planes damaged the structure. He agrees that the ultimate cause of collapse was the combination of damaged structure and weakened columns. He may even have stopped arguing against the notion that the fires along would have been sufficient...I'm not entirely certain on that one. I'm positive that he held that position at least for a while on the randi forums - that he accepted that damage from the planes and subseqent weakening from fire could have been enough, but insisted there was an additional soure of heat (thermite) which was there "just to make sure".

    The only difference Max sees between what he thinks happened and what NIST say happened, is the mechanism by which the steel weakened.

    Put differently, if you find Max's argument worthy, then you must intrinsically accept the collapse model as offered by NIST except for one small detail - that being the source of heat which caused the weakening.

    So...do you accept the NIST collapse model, Kernel, or do you think Max is badly mistaken?


  • #55
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    And by promising you mean an article that distinctly says that the thermite wasn't used to cut?

    It's also funny how the guy makes the argument that damage was only made to look like damage from the plane and fire. And that thermite must have been used because the plane and fire couldn't have caused damage that looks like that.

    I also like his superpower of identifying the type molten metal by sight alone, even on a video.


  • #56
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    bonkey wrote: »
    In fact, unless he's changed his position recently, Max has long argued that NIST got the collapse mechanism completely correct, except that it wasn't just the fires alone which weakened the steel, but rather the fires and thermite together.

    And at that rate you'd have to say it wouldn't be a big leap, given how relatively small the brackets holding up the floors were, that the building could have just come down after these were weakened by fire alone.


  • #57
    Kernel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    bonkey wrote: »
    MaxPhoton doesn't claim thermite was used to make horizontal cuts at all. He claims that it was used to weaken the steel. He stresses the point multiple times on that page, that thermite was not used to cut steel at all in the collapse.

    No, he doesn't say that, however it does give food for thought as to how thermite may have been used in order to assist in the phony US attack. I have also found that horizontal cuts with thermite is possible. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/546e667af4be5531 pay particular attention to this:
    > >> > When activated a vertical cut is made to each member which in turn
    > >> > actuates the horizontal thermite bands. Do this on enough floors

    and
    > >> > In this case one would attach a foot long remote controlled
    > >> > prefabricated package to the column. This package comprises two
    > >> > horizontal strips of thermite connected by a vertical band.

    Here's a good thread discussing the use of thermite: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread272480/pg1

    Amd here:
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread451841/pg1

    You can see why I spend more time on those forums for conspiracy related discussion. ;)
    bonkey wrote: »
    He agrees the planes damaged the structure. He agrees that the ultimate cause of collapse was the combination of damaged structure and weakened columns.

    I also agree with this fact, however, the extent to which these planes (non-intercepted due to training exercises and NIST lies with regard to the timing of reports) flown by Al-CIAda (a group of shadowy boogiemen funded and trained by the CIA, headed by Osama Bin Laden - family friends of the Bush Oil cartel) damaged these superstructures is where the dispute comes in. The buildings had to fall, after all, the owner took out a massively increased insurance policy covering terrorist acts just before the incident. Funny that eh? Add in Operation Northwoods and the Project for the New American Century report (PNAC) stating that America needed a new pearl harbour to go to war.... No bonkey, you're a mathematician, you understand probability and coincidence, and there are far too many for any reasonable thinking person to discount on the 'evidence' provided by the so called skeptics.

    In summation, I'm tired of 911 now, but after I have been once again trawling and researching on the incident in recent days, I am still of the opinion that the entire incident stinks of government and particularly Bush Admin. involvement in order to further political agendas.

    I think I will always be of this opinion in light of the available evidence produced by the debunkers. And I've decided that it is a waste of time arguing such points on this forum, and that time is something we only get so much of. I mean, people want me to draw lines on schematics showing that the elevator shaft was located in the core.... something that's accepted as fact by everyone imo. ATS is a far superior forum for anyone interested in actually discussing these things, and a far better tool for researching. Look through this thread, me arguing with all the debunkers of the forum for christ's sake! ;)

    Not so bad if some wouldn't do the circle dance. :)


  • #58
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    seeing as how some posters may not have checked out the, the core schematic ( we call em plans where I come from )
    A-A-24_1.3rdfloor.coreplan.jpg
    seems pretty clear, although you probably couldnt access all of them, most of the core columns are reasonably easily accessed.

    and heres a little 3D model to help with the visualisations
    corehallsdoors.gif


  • #59
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Kernel wrote: »
    No, he doesn't say that, however it does give food for thought as to how thermite may have been used in order to assist in the phony US attack. I have also found that horizontal cuts with thermite is possible. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/546e667af4be5531 pay particular attention to this:

    and

    Here's a good thread discussing the use of thermite: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread272480/pg1

    Amd here:
    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread451841/pg1

    You can see why I spend more time on those forums for conspiracy related discussion. ;)

    So were experiments run to see how this would be done in practise?
    Interestingly Mythbusters were using thermite on a car. They placed 450kgs of thermite on top of a car and it didn't even burn through all of the roof. As soon the the thermite made a hole it poured through it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpa1K51os4


    I thought you spent more time on top secret for the same reason a Man U fan spends their time on a Man U forum? Or Trekkies go to trekkie conventions.
    Kernel wrote: »
    The buildings had to fall, after all, the owner took out a massively increased insurance policy covering terrorist acts just before the incident. Funny that eh?

    Funny as it's not true.
    Kernel wrote: »
    In summation, I'm tired of 911 now, but after I have been once again trawling and researching on the incident in recent days, I am still of the opinion that the entire incident stinks of government and particularly Bush Admin. involvement in order to further political agendas.

    I'm kinda tired of it too, the way people just wanna believe even when you show evidence to the contrary. I think an awful lot of people started with the assumption that something was amiss and are loath to hear otherwise.
    Kernel wrote: »
    I think I will always be of this opinion in light of the available evidence produced by the debunkers. And I've decided that it is a waste of time arguing such points on this forum, and that time is something we only get so much of. I mean, people want me to draw lines on schematics showing that the elevator shaft was located in the core.... something that's accepted as fact by everyone imo. ATS is a far superior forum for anyone interested in actually discussing these things, and a far better tool for researching. Look through this thread, me arguing with all the debunkers of the forum for christ's sake! ;)

    Not so bad if some wouldn't do the circle dance. :)

    But either the nitty gritty shows the CT or it doesn't. Why is it the 'truth' movement have so little respect for truth?
    Kernel wrote: »
    No bonkey, you're a mathematician, you understand probability and coincidence, and there are far too many for any reasonable thinking person to discount on the 'evidence' provided by the so called skeptics.

    I mustn't be a right thinking person although I don't rule out the conspiracy completely. Funny but the 'truth' movement using the splatter effect makes me think they are up to no good. When you need to show so many things and tell us they are connected even though there's no proof of that I really do wonder.


  • #60
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    polishpaddy wrote: »
    http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

    I just read this awhile ago. Is this enough evidence to suggest explosives were used or not?
    Anyone?
    'Is this enough evidence' , evidence for whom , the authorities!, i don't think there are any genuine authorities in this world . I think you can prove it all you want but there is'nt anyone there to prove it to .


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