Giles and dunphy criticizing Terry for taking penalty

ShoulderChip · 22-05-2008 1:21am #1

What are they on?
Just because he messed up his penalty, they have decided he is bad at penalties and had no right taking one, lets take a look at who was left at this point

Anelka - went on to miss
Essien - last time he took a penalty his mother fainted and had to be brought to hospital, he promised her he would not take one again
Carvalho - also a centreback
Makelele - not a goalscorer, almost missed the one charity penalty he was given two years ago etc.

The point is that Chelsea are no jokers, they have obviousely spent a lot of time practicing penalties in training and they know who is good at taking penalties.
John Terry would not be taking that penalty if he wasn't the best penalty taker of the rest of the players left.

Although it may have been worth Mrs. Essien visiting hospital again

kmart6 · 22-05-2008 1:25am

They are such gimps really,if he hadn't slipped he woulda scored,VDS went the total opposite wat,hell if he had only slipped a slight bit he would still scored!

Beerlao · 22-05-2008 1:25am

i'm sure i've seen Terry take a penalty before though

Mitch Connor · 22-05-2008 1:26am

ShoulderChip wrote: »

What are they on?
Just because he messed up his penalty, they have decided he is bad at penalties and had no right taking one, lets take a look at who was left at this point

Anelka - went on to miss
Essien - last time he took a penalty his mother fainted and had to be brought to hospital, he promised her he would not take one again
Carvalho - also a centreback
Makelele - not a goalscorer, almost missed the one charity penalty he was given two years ago etc.

The point is that Chelsea are no jokers, they have obviousely spent a lot of time practicing penalties in training and they know who is good at taking penalties.
John Terry would not be taking that penalty if he wasn't the best penalty taker of the rest of the players left.

Although it may have been worth Mrs. Essien visiting hospital again

i thought they were out of order myself - he was unlucky, whether down to poor foot placement or a poor pitch, he was unlucky. He showed great courage in being the 5th man, as far as we know no one else wanted to take the 5th. I think i have seen him spank a peno in before too, and we have seen great finishes from Terry over his career.

He was unlucky, as was Ronaldo, as was Anelka imo. No one missed their penalty horribly, no penalties were ballooned over the bar or miles wide.

ShoulderChip · 22-05-2008 1:28am

Beerlao wrote: »

i'm sure i've seen Terry take a penalty before though

He scored for england against portugal.

Mr.Nice Guy · 22-05-2008 1:34am

I thought they were talking bollocks to be honest. Giles asking for the video to be stopped to analyse Terry's leg positioning. Just seemed to me that his leg went from under him rather than the positioning being off.

Also Dunphy saying centre-backs shouldn't be taking penalties. Who scored the peno that took Ireland past Romania in 1990? Don't remember him having any problems back then.

It seemed to me like criticism for the sake of criticism. Then hearing Dunphy bash Ronaldo saying he 'bottled it'. Cos his on-target penalty was saved? Petty rants I think.

kerash · 22-05-2008 1:34am

Very unfair to critise Terry, any player can miss a pen in those circumstances, its a lottery. It takes some guts for them to step up. Didnt hear them complain that Rooney didn't take one.

MisterAnarchy · 22-05-2008 1:36am

I laugh when I hear these pundits saying a defender shouldnt take a penalty.
FFS the guy is a professional footballer earning £140k per week .
The technique involved in taking a penalty is not that difficult.
Steve Bruce scored 13 penalties one season for Man Utd.

ShoulderChip · 22-05-2008 1:36am

kerash wrote: »

Very unfair to critise Terry, any player can miss a pen in those circumstances, its a lottery. It takes some guts for them to step up. Didnt hear them complain that Rooney didn't take one.

Thats true but then again you have to be playing to be eligible to take a penalty.

Xavi6 · 22-05-2008 1:37am

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Makelele - not a goalscorer, almost missed the one charity penalty he was given two years ago etc.

Also wasn't eligible to take one seeing as he'd been substituted.

marco_polo · 22-05-2008 1:37am

kerash wrote: »

Very unfair to critise Terry, any player can miss a pen in those circumstances, its a lottery. It takes some guts for them to step up. Didnt hear them complain that Rooney didn't take one.

Well he had been taken off about a half an hour before that. Chicken

kerash · 22-05-2008 1:43am

ShoulderChip wrote: »

Thats true but then again you have to be playing to be eligible to take a penalty.

Was he off? woopsie! T'was the tension melted my head! Anyway, like myself Giles and co. werent on best form tonite;)

marco_polo · 22-05-2008 1:45am

kerash wrote: »

Was he off? woopsie! T'was the tension melted my head! Anyway, like myself Giles and co. werent on best form tonite;)

I couldn't hear them I was in the pub thankfully.

Could see them replayTerrys peno about 15 times I was wondering why.

lordgoat · 22-05-2008 1:45am

Sometimes i wonder if people actually watch the match and pay attention. Or maybe they don't know the rules of the game.

And taking a penalty is not a lottery, largely it's about picking your spot and keeping you head. Do that every time and you'll score more often than you miss.

One Cold Hand · 22-05-2008 1:46am

Tauren wrote: »

as far as we know no one else wanted to take the 5th.

How do we know this? I'd say Ballack and Lamps would have been happy to go last if asked.

Tauren wrote: »

He was unlucky, as was Ronaldo, as was Anelka imo. No one missed their penalty horribly, no penalties were ballooned over the bar or miles wide.

Ronaldo wasn't unlucky. It was a terrible peno. Why didn't he just run straight up and bang it in? What the point in stopping? Fair play to Cech for calling his bluff.

Mitch Connor · 22-05-2008 1:49am

One Cold Hand wrote: »

How do we know this? I'd say Ballack and Lamps would have been happy to go last if asked.

Ronaldo wasn't unlucky. It was a terrible peno. Why didn't he just run straight up and bang it in? What the point in stopping? Fair play to Cech for calling his bluff.

Terry stepped up, no one else. no reason to belive Lampard or Ballack asked to be moved down the order and were denied.

As for Ronaldo's penalty - he took it THE EXACT SAME WAY HE ALWAYS DOES, doing anything different would have been altering his generally well proven style. And yes, he was unlucky - if the keeper hadn't GUESSED the right way, it would have done in. He was unlucky in the same way the chelsea players were lucky van der sar didn't get a strong hand to the two he got close to in the first 5.

kerash · 22-05-2008 1:50am

lordgoat wrote: »

Sometimes i wonder if people actually watch the match and pay attention. Or maybe they don't know the rules of the game.

And taking a penalty is not a lottery, largely it's about picking your spot and keeping you head. Do that every time and you'll score more often than you miss.

Memory lapse...I thought Rooney was still on the pitch! so shoot me. penalties are a horrible way to decide a game imo.

marco_polo · 22-05-2008 1:53am

One Cold Hand wrote: »

How do we know this? I'd say Ballack and Lamps would have been happy to go last if asked.

Ronaldo wasn't unlucky. It was a terrible peno. Why didn't he just run straight up and bang it in? What the point in stopping? Fair play to Cech for calling his bluff.

Does the order really matter? Most teams put the best kickers first, isn't it almost considered bad luck if you save the best till the end, because as sure as night follows day you never get to the last kicker when you try it

.

Ronaldo's was a gash penno though, longest pause I have ever seen.

marco_polo · 22-05-2008 1:56am

kerash wrote: »

Memory lapse...I thought Rooney was still on the pitch! so shoot me. penalties are a horrible way to decide a game imo.

Given his contribution in the previous 90 minutes, aside from one diagonal ball in the first half, it was an easy mistake to make.

LuckyLloyd · 22-05-2008 2:24am

If Terry had scored that penalty it would have been hailed as one of the greatest individual moments of mental fortitude and courage ever displayed by an English football player. But he missed by a matter of centimeters, so it will instead end up being viewed as a questionable incidence of ego > rationality. Funny old game.

Unearthly · 22-05-2008 2:26am

I didn't watch RTE tonight

but if Terry had scored, they would of slagged off Ronaldo missing a peno I would imagine.

Annoying pundits

One Cold Hand · 22-05-2008 2:26am

Tauren wrote: »

As for Ronaldo's penalty - he took it THE EXACT SAME WAY HE ALWAYS DOES, doing anything different would have been altering his generally well proven style. And yes, he was unlucky - if the keeper hadn't GUESSED the right way, it would have done in. He was unlucky in the same way the chelsea players were lucky van der sar didn't get a strong hand to the two he got close to in the first 5.

If you look at it as simply as this, then yes, he was unlucky. However, it was a badly stuck penalty, no matter how you look at it. It was soft, perfect height for saving, and was just to the keepers right. And I don't think Cech guessed. I don't understand why Ron takes them like this. Everyone knows that a well placed peno gives the keeper no chance. Why try and wait to see where keeper dives?
The second Cech stood up to Ron, he was fooked, as this whole method is based on the keeper guessing a side and diving.

Anyhoo, it's all pretty irrelevant at the end of the day...

x in the city · 22-05-2008 2:50am

peno kicks are cnuts! should be done away like the death penalty (ahem)..:)

Reganio 2 · 22-05-2008 2:59am

ShoulderChip wrote: »

What are they on?
Just because he messed up his penalty, they have decided he is bad at penalties and had no right taking one, lets take a look at who was left at this point

Anelka - went on to miss
Essien - last time he took a penalty his mother fainted and had to be brought to hospital, he promised her he would not take one again
Carvalho - also a centreback
Makelele - not a goalscorer, almost missed the one charity penalty he was given two years ago etc.

The point is that Chelsea are no jokers, they have obviousely spent a lot of time practicing penalties in training and they know who is good at taking penalties.
John Terry would not be taking that penalty if he wasn't the best penalty taker of the rest of the players left.

Although it may have been worth Mrs. Essien visiting hospital again

Personnaly I would have went for Kalou to take one ahead of Terry, when I saw terry step up my 1st thought was he is going to miss, then I started to think and IMO (Bold just to make sure you all see it) he saw it as the chance to make himself a supreme Chelsea legend and score the goal that wins them their 1st Champions League trophy.

kenco · 22-05-2008 6:55am

Agree that the pundits were OTT for Terrys peno. The man slipped but still managed to hit the post! He showed great courage in taking that pen as you can be sure that no one else was putting up their hands to take the critical 5th (e.g. Ballack and Lampard). I remember Ince burying his head in the sand for the World Cup semi against Germany in '90 also Southgate asked to take a penalty in Euro '96 as no one else was up for it. Its tough but thats penos....

Coming back to the panel they criticised a centre half for taking the critical penalty which is nonsense. I might be wrong here but I think Terry started out as a striker before finding his best position. He was very unluckly and even Utd fans are accepting this.

PDN · 22-05-2008 7:16am

Unearthly wrote: »

I didn't watch RTE tonight

but if Terry had scored, they would of slagged off Ronaldo missing a peno I would imagine.

Annoying pundits

And they would have been right to do so. Ronaldo was showboating. Stopping on the run-up and then taking the penalty means that he actually takes it without a run-up, reducing the power of the shot. If that was really the best way to take a penalty then every player would just stand by the penalty spot and kick the ball without a run-up.

As it was Terry and Anelka missed so Ronaldo's antics didn't cost his team the trophy. That would have been a pity after the amazing season he has had.

IrishMike · 22-05-2008 7:38am

They are complete gimps end of discussion.
Might as well have Mary Kennedy and Sharon Ni Bheolain doing analysis.
They would make as much of a contribution as Giles and Dunphy

gucci · 22-05-2008 8:22am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought they were talking bollocks to be honest.

That is all really that has to be said. Nothing new here.

22-05-2008 8:35am

Not a Chelsea fan by any means by I felt very sorry for Terry. Anyone who volunteers to take the fifth pen has more balls than those pundits put together.

And Ronaldo blew his pen because Cech didn't move an INCH when he paused mid run-up. That's a miss in the semi and a miss in the final - what's the odds on him taking important pens for United next season?

redspider · 22-05-2008 9:00am

> He was unlucky, as was Ronaldo, as was Anelka imo. No one missed their penalty horribly, no penalties were ballooned over the bar or miles wide.

Terry was unlucky with his penalty, no doubt about that. He slipped, not because of the pitch, but these things do happen and as has been pointed out, he was cm's away from being hailed a hero and Ronaldo the villain, such is the fine line in football.

Ronaldo's spot kick was not a good one as it was at the height and position and pace that made it easy for Cech (or any goalkeeper) to save if he was going the right way (if guessing) or even if he waited until the kick was taken. Anelka's kick was similarly at an easy height to save, although better than Ronaldo's, and vd Sar knew he was going to save it just after it had been kicked.

Yes, Giles went a bit overboard on close-ups on Terry's slip - I think he wanted to get his point across the reason why he slipped, that his foot was placed too close to the ball, etc, and that it wasnt the pitch. We got your point Johnny the first time you mentioned it.

In terms of lottery, there is always an element of lottery involved in penalties when goalies are guessing, and there was in last nights shoot-out especially as it turned out and ended up 6-5. Cech and vd Sar were close a couple of times, getting a hand to penalties (after guessing right) but the ball still managing to get in. Belletti's wasnt brilliant but vd Sar went the wrong way.

There's no other way to settle matches, although I wouldnt mind seeing a different system instead where players get the ball on the half-way line and try and run in and score with the goalie allowed to come off the line, etc, perhaps a 15-second time limit. It would reduce the element of lottery and goalies guessing perhaps.

Redspider

cournioni · 22-05-2008 9:02am

Terry's kick wasn't the pressure kick, Nani's, Kalou's and Anelka's kicks were.

Xavi6 · 22-05-2008 9:03am

redspider wrote: »

There's no other way to settle matches, although I wouldnt mind seeing a different system instead where players get the ball on the half-way line and try and run in and score with the goalie allowed to come off the line, etc, perhaps a 15-second time limit. It would reduce the element of lottery and goalies guessing perhaps.

Sorry but a big -1 from me on that one. I've seen it in the MLS and it looks absolutely crap. Keepers still have to guess whether the player's going left or right so doesn't really eliminate that.

jank · 22-05-2008 9:03am

Kaluo should have taken the last one.

ibh · 22-05-2008 9:05am

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Personnaly I would have went for Kalou to take one ahead of Terry, when I saw terry step up my 1st thought was he is going to miss, then I started to think and IMO (Bold just to make sure you all see it) he saw it as the chance to make himself a supreme Chelsea legend and score the goal that wins them their 1st Champions League trophy.

I'd say it was more a case of him say that he would take a peno but go last. That way the 'regular / experienced' takers go first and he might not even be needed.
IMO it doesn't matter which player steps up, it's in their head not their footballing ability, that they score or miss.
I would have had Terry up ahead of Anelka cause Terry looked like he wanted one. Anelka looked like he was going to miss from the moment he stepped up.

gucci · 22-05-2008 9:07am

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Terry's kick wasn't the pressure kick, Nani's, Kalou's and Anelka's kicks were.

In fairness, any penalty in a final is a pressure kick, everyone of them a decider and if Terry had have scored it would have been the winner.....so i think its fair to say there was alot of pressure on him.

jank wrote: »

Kaluo should have taken the last one.

Sweet beautiful hindsight.......

kryogen · 22-05-2008 9:11am

Terry wanted to take it, for personal reasons im sure, but more because John Terry is a leader, he steps up when the pressure is on, and he was unlucky last night, cm's from being the hero. He should in no way now be tarred the villain

now please no more of this because i feel dirty having to defend the man

How about we talk about the Tevez peno?? now that was a ****ing penalty! Cech wasnt getting near that, great head under the pressure of having to go first there imo

kryogen · 22-05-2008 9:13am

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Terry's kick wasn't the pressure kick, Nani's, Kalou's and Anelka's kicks were.

A big fat - 100 here

how was Terrys kick not a pressure kick? last peno, if he scores they win, if he misses it goes to sudden death and he has blown the chance of personal glory and will be haunted by the miss for the rest of his career

jank · 22-05-2008 9:13am

John Terry ****ed it up. He saw his name in lights and he wanted that England armband.

Sweet beautiful hindsight......

Well id rather an attack minded player take it rather then a CB.

masterK · 22-05-2008 9:17am

If you look closely you'd see Terry didn't slip until after his contact with the ball, the slip didn't influence the direction of the ball. If he had not of slipped the ball would of taken exactly the same path.

gucci · 22-05-2008 9:18am

ibh wrote: »

looked like he was going to miss from the moment he stepped up.

Once again in hindsight yes he did, Anelka never looks like the ruthless player that he should be in such situations...

Was it just me (basically not really caring who won and analyising it more than normal) or did the ref seem to stand over the ball for a long time before each kick was taken..........maybe he didn't i just thought he did

gucci · 22-05-2008 9:20am

jank wrote: »

Well id rather an attack minded player take it rather then a CB.

In that situation I would rather whoever I thought was going to score, which is not always the attack minded player......for example ronaldo, anelka etc

cournioni · 22-05-2008 9:22am

kryogen wrote: »

A big fat - 100 here

how was Terrys kick not a pressure kick? last peno, if he scores they win, if he misses it goes to sudden death and he has blown the chance of personal glory and will be haunted by the miss for the rest of his career

It wasn't a sudden death kick, that is why. If Nani missed his, Chelsea won the CL, if Kalou missed his United won the CL, Anelka did miss his and United won the CL!!

Personal glory my arse, I know there is always pressure on the players in these shootouts, but Terry's was not THE pressure kick.

IrishMike · 22-05-2008 9:34am

jank wrote: »

Well id rather an attack minded player take it rather then a CB.

Excellent point i would much prefer an attacker like Torres who is crap at
taking penalties to a defender like Irwin who was brilliant at taking them
Stop talking crap.
Terry took on the responsibility when Anelka shirked it.
He took the 7th penalty even though he was the only out and out striker
Chelsea had on the pitch, says as much about Terry as it does Anelka IMHO.

jank · 22-05-2008 9:44am

IrishMike wrote: »

Excellent point i would much prefer an attacker like Torres who is crap at
taking penalties to a defender like Irwin who was brilliant at taking them
Stop talking crap.
Terry took on the responsibility when Anelka shirked it.
He took the 7th penalty even though he was the only out and out striker
Chelsea had on the pitch, says as much about Terry as it does Anelka IMHO.

Christ sore head this morning?

If im talking crap then did Kaolu score his peno?
Oh right but im talking crap..next!

Nalz · 22-05-2008 9:49am

I sense a Kalou is/isn't an out and out striker argument coming on

Ah rte go OTT on alot of things...Giles saying Ronaldo was a disgrace against Arsenal? Why? Its great tv though.

therecklessone · 22-05-2008 9:52am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It seemed to me like criticism for the sake of criticism. Then hearing Dunphy bash Ronaldo saying he 'bottled it'. Cos his on-target penalty was saved? Petty rants I think.

Ding Dong!

That's Giles and Dunphy to a T.

IrishMike · 22-05-2008 9:52am

jank wrote: »

Christ sore head this morning?

If im talking crap then did Kaolu score his peno?
Oh right but im talking crap..next!

No, nothing wrong with my head thanks.
Kalou scored his penalty but it had nothing to do with him being an attacker.
Did Ashley Cole or Beletti miss their penalties?
You either can take penalties or you cant, has nothing to do with being an
attacker or a defender.
Ever hear of Rogério Ceni ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fespo4yYihs

lisbon_lions · 22-05-2008 10:02am

Technically, Ronaldo's penalty was the worst taken. If you run up and stop just short, even for a second, you are esentially only giving yourself two-steps into the ball and you make the keepers job a lot easier to read your intended placing.

Terry was just unfortunate that his footing went from under him.

spiderdan · 22-05-2008 11:23am

Terry took it for the wrong reasons- He saw the headlines, spotlights, England armband, Chelsea legend forever etc and thought I want some of that let me take the last one!! Kalou should defo have taken the 5th peno. The min I saw Terry walking up I knew he'd miss, as did the UTD fans I was watching it with. He didn't look comfortable! I agree with the previous post the slip didn't interfere with the patch of the ball if you look closely at it.

leninbenjamin · 22-05-2008 11:35am

spiderdan wrote: »

Terry took it for the wrong reasons- He saw the headlines, spotlights, England armband, Chelsea legend forever etc and thought I want some of that let me take the last one!!

ah that's bull in fairness. you never know what reasons they take one for; he could be one of the better penalty takers in the squad in training for all we know. if anything he looked confident for the penalty, but just tried too hard and overran the run, but in fairness he still managed to hit the post which is impressive considering how badly his left foot went out from underneath him.

spiderdan · 22-05-2008 11:45am

Looking at it closely he slipped after the ball left his foot, therefore made no difference!

Obviously penalties are a lottery, but having Terry take one ahead of Kalou seems to be much more of lottery! how confident would UTD fans have been if Rio stepped up to keep them in it??? Poor decision making from Chelsea, no way Ferguson would have let a Rio or Vidic take the 5th peno ahead of say Tevez or even Nani!! Terry seems to have far too much control over the team- IMO

Giles and dunphy criticizing Terry for taking penalty

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