The Dubai Thread [Merged]

wuffly · 22-10-2014 7:43pm

sashafierce wrote: »

Only for qualified teachers Id imagine and not these TEFL type teaching course, yeah?

As long as you have a visa, contract and have worked for 2yrs you are entitled to end of service benefit a qualified teacher will be getting paid more so they will get more(it's based on your basic salary). Its part of the labour law.

FURET · 19-11-2014 7:56am

Bit of a morbid subject, but it needs to be said. It's really important for expat couples in Dubai to not keep any substantial assets in the UAE. This includes savings and investment accounts. Why? Because if everything is in either your husband's name or in both your names, upon the husband's death, all UAE-domiciled assets are frozen and it may take a long, long time for them to become unfrozen. On the other hand, assets domiciled in the UAE, but in the wife's name, will not be frozen upon her death and will flow directly to the husband (unequal, I know).

Note that this would also apply to cars; a car in a male spouse's name would be impounded upon his death and it can take several months for it to be released.

Ways around this:

Keep all assets off-shore as far as practicable.
Consider transferring ownership of vehicles to the female spouse so that they're not impounded in the event of the male spouse's death.
Do not keep joint accounts.
Have a will drawn up and attested both by the Irish Dept of Foreign Affairs in Ireland and the embassy in Abu Dhabi; then have the attested will translated to Arabic and signed by a notary public.

This is an unfortunate reality of life in Dubai for expats, as it basically sends expats down the off-shore route, which is not in itself a bad thing, but in reality it is frequently the keyhole through which malign elements - notably "financial advisors" - can enter your life.

BlackEdelweiss · 19-11-2014 8:32am

I am married with 4 young kids. I could get a job as an engineer with 3 years experience. I'm not sure what salary I would be able to get. Is anybody in a similar position either professionally or personally and if so have you any advice on whether we could have a decent quality of life in Dubai. I would love to do it for the job experience but it would be nice to be able to save a bit for when we decided to leave. My wife has no professional qualification but has 10 years experience in national and local government offices. Could she find work there?

FURET · 19-11-2014 8:54am

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

I am married with 4 young kids. I could get a job as an engineer with 3 years experience. I'm not sure what salary I would be able to get. Is anybody in a similar position either professionally or personally and if so have you any advice on whether we could have a decent quality of life in Dubai. I would love to do it for the job experience but it would be nice to be able to save a bit for when we decided to leave. My wife has no professional qualification but has 10 years experience in national and local government offices. Could she find work there?

I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you what you would generally need.

With a family of 5 dependents, it's vital that you would get a family package that would adequately cover:

Your housing costs in full (you would at a minimum require a 3-bedroom villa with two kids per room. If you want more than this, you will have to pay through the ear)
Medical Insurance, covered in full, for all family members
Annual ticket entitlement for all family members
Education Allowance for each of your kids

With three years experience, I would have severe doubts that you would get an adequate package. Villas, medical insurance, and education / childcare costs in Dubai are very high.

Most employers cap the number of children they are willing to cover at three. You have four, so it's quite possible that you would not get any employer contribution towards the fourth child (though you might get lucky).

I don't think your wife would get a public sector job or admin job, but you never know. If she did, you would probably require a live-in nanny, which would probably mean you'd need a larger villa again.

In short, I suspect you won't be able to find a package that will allow you to live comfortably and save a large amount at the same time.

I might be wrong though - so don't take my word for it.

For a four bedroom villa you could be looking at 200,000+ AED per year
For a decent education / play school, minimum of 35,000 per child per year

Bear in mind you'd also have to furnish the villa - and that would include buying appliances, wardrobes, curtains, beds, etc.

Anyway, you know what to look for - a comprehensive, generous family package. If you can get a furniture and relocation allowance, so much the better.

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:13pm

Agree with Furet, unless you are looking at engineering in Oil & Gas I don't think you'd get a package that would make the move worthwhile. There is every chance your wife could get a good PA role with her experience but I think it would take awhile and would more than likely come through networking.

There are still some large packages to be had but they are hard to come by. I know of an accountant recently that got an amazing package with a food company and he is a GL manager not a CFO or anything on that level. I would look at the big companies as they will be the only ones willing to pay the kind of package you would need.

Companies are really trying to sell the 'all in' packages as being better but they really aren't. e40k on rent (plus 5% housing fee, along with agency fees, deposit, furniture etc..), schools fees, buying a car its a huge outlay to start with. Rent is generally anything from 4-1 cheques, nothing monthly. e10K would vanish on set up alone if not more.

On the plus side Dubai is very family friendly, there is a group or a club for everything. The weather from now until April/May is lovely. Loads of family activities etc..

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:21pm

FURET wrote: »

Bit of a morbid subject, but it needs to be said. It's really important for expat couples in Dubai to not keep any substantial assets in the UAE. This includes savings and investment accounts. Why? Because if everything is in either your husband's name or in both your names, upon the husband's death, all UAE-domiciled assets are frozen and it may take a long, long time for them to become unfrozen. On the other hand, assets domiciled in the UAE, but in the wife's name, will not be frozen upon her death and will flow directly to the husband (unequal, I know).

Note that this would also apply to cars; a car in a male spouse's name would be impounded upon his death and it can take several months for it to be released.

Ways around this:
Keep all assets off-shore as far as practicable.

Consider transferring ownership of vehicles to the female spouse so that they're not impounded in the event of the male spouse's death.

Do not keep joint accounts.

Have a will drawn up and attested both by the Irish Dept of Foreign Affairs in Ireland and the embassy in Abu Dhabi; then have the attested will translated to Arabic and signed by a notary public.

This is an unfortunate reality of life in Dubai for expats, as it basically sends expats down the off-shore route, which is not in itself a bad thing, but in reality it is frequently the keyhole through which malign elements - notably "financial advisors" - can enter your life.

100% agree, we don't keep anything here. As you said keep as much as possible offshore. Try not to keep more than what can be withdrawn in one day in the current account. Any assets you do have are better off in her name. Even with the correct doc's in place an ex colleague of mine died suddenly and even with the will in place and accept all joint assets were frozen for 18 months.

Now to get my husband to put his car in my name

FURET · 19-11-2014 12:37pm

wuffly wrote: »

100% agree, we don't keep anything here. As you said keep as much as possible offshore. Try not to keep more than what can be withdrawn in one day in the current account. Any assets you do have are better off in her name. Even with the correct doc's in place an ex colleague of mine died suddenly and even with the will in place and accept all joint assets were frozen for 18 months.

Now to get my husband to put his car in my name

Awful! Was his will drawn up in his home country, attested by his embassy and translated into Arabic?

wuffly · 19-11-2014 12:43pm

Yep, everything done 100% correctly here and in the UK. They had property here and a joint account. This is the reason we keep absolutely nothing here and no joint account. His elderly father had to come over at least twice. The court had no issue with the will but it was just horrendously slow to get everything processed and released.

FURET · 19-11-2014 1:34pm

wuffly wrote: »

Yep, everything done 100% correctly here and in the UK. They had property here and a joint account. This is the reason we keep absolutely nothing here and no joint account. His elderly father had to come over at least twice. The court had no issue with the will but it was just horrendously slow to get everything processed and released.

Bloody hell. I thought that at least if he had the will attested and translated, they'd make the transition smooth for the family. Like you, we only have my car in my name. I think we'll change it to her name this December when I re-register. Everything else is kept outside the UAE.

wuffly · 20-11-2014 6:18am

I can't imagine what they would have gone through if the will wasn't place, his father basically had to come over to say he didn't object to the will. I think they could have managed without this but hoped it would speed things up.

wuffly · 08-12-2014 1:40pm

Long shot but anyway. Anyone know of any decent recruiters for FMCG Director level in Dubai/AD?
8yrs exp in Ireland & 4 in the ME.

Formosa · 09-12-2014 8:43am

I've just started recently in Abu Dhabi, I'm still finding my way around, but I see my company has used Charterhouse to employ for a management position

http://www.charterhouseme.ae/

I don't know anything about them other than that we've used them recently.

wuffly · 09-12-2014 9:04am

Thanks Formosa, he's already signed up with them, they don't have anything suitable.

Hope all's going well for you in AD.

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 5:53pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:28pm

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can enter on a 30 day holiday visa and start looking for work... if you run out of days you can do a 'visa run' to Oman which allows you to leave the country and re-enter with a new holiday visa. I'm not sure how positively this is looked at by the authorities, but seems to comply with the rules...

The best way is to secure a job before arriving, but some employers like to hire people ho are already in the country, its easier

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 6:29pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:30pm

BTW, depending on he job and the industry, it can take a while to secure a job here... there are jobs available,it just can take time

sashafierce · 10-12-2014 6:36pm

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Bluefoam · 10-12-2014 6:43pm

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Those type of jobs may be as easy to get from Ireland. Many companies have systems in place for bringing new employees over. Also many of the Irish and UK recruiters handle middle east playements...

I am in the process of changing jobs in Dubai and used a UK recruiter...

wuffly · 14-12-2014 8:40am

Unless you are talking about a senior your role its unlikely that you will get hired from aboard, those types of packages are hard to come by. Recruitment here is very slow, its fine to come on a tourist visa and do visa runs no one looks on it unfavorably its just how it works here. Its an expensive place to be with no job. Take anything a recruiter says to you with a bucket of salt, they sprout all sorts of rubbish, don't ever pay a recruiter here, its illegal and if they are trying to charge you they are dodgy.

sashafierce · 07-01-2015 10:49pm

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wuffly · 08-01-2015 7:48am

Yes for some places its annually people often negotiate this to get a better price. Generally bi-annually or quarterly, all by post dated cheques. Prices vary drastically. 1 bed apartment in down town would be about e20k+ per year. same apartment in motor city could range from e10-15k. You need a residence visa to take a lease. Apartment sharing is legal in some areas but not all and not mixed sharing. Villa sharing is not legal but it happens. Rent is cheaper this way and can often be monthly but you have no security and no legal comeback if you have issues.

roryq · 11-01-2015 6:39am

There is a number of places that do apartments on a serviced basis. This is what I used when I first moved to the country. Someone like PK Properties allow you to pay on a monthly basis and have short term let options.

So you can find a place for a couple of months while you get used to the areas.

Jude13 · 11-01-2015 6:54am

i have been to Dubai numerous times, mainly boozing, however we are going to be moving up there in July/August. Are there any areas I should be looking at/avoiding renting?

We would be looking at paying a max of AED 110,000 a month and hoping to get a two bed apartment with shared pool etc.

wuffly · 11-01-2015 7:14am

Depends on where you'll be working as traffic is a big factor. Roughly I would avoid old Dubai for traffic in general. For that price I'd say you'd be able to get something decent in JLT(close to the marina) or Business bay(close to downtown) if you don't mind a small bit of a commute Motor City and Silicon Oasis, Discovery gardens (traffic can be rubbish here, i recently moved to the jebel ali area and while I love it the traffic can be a mare) these areas would be good and would probably come in under budget. You'd need a car for these but I think a car is essential here anyway, you can rent to start with. Public transport is available and its good but it just doesn't go everywhere, yet. Mirdiff isn't bad but if you are working in the marina I wouldn't advise it, also as its close the airport so lots of planes flying over but you get used it. I would avoid international city. Just for info you get different bang for you buck in different areas, if chiller is free that is big plus, we paid Empower (air conditioning charges) for 3 years its bloody expensive but the rent was cheaper. Also your annual rent directly impacts your electricity bill, you pay 5% of your annual rent on your bill over the year. Its always been roughly half our bill. if you move in July you be here for Ramadan, so I will be hard to move with the heat and the fasting but once you get through that you'll find the rest no bother. Will be a good time for apartment hunting as things will be quiet and easy to pick second hand furniture from people moving on as most do it after the school year. Good luck!

Jude13 · 11-01-2015 7:29am

wuffly wrote: »

Depends on where you'll be working as traffic is a big factor. Roughly I would avoid old Dubai for traffic in general. For that price I'd say you'd be able to get something decent in JLT(close to the marina) or Business bay(close to downtown) if you don't mind a small bit of a commute Motor City and Silicon Oasis, Discovery gardens (traffic can be rubbish here, i recently moved to the jebel ali area and while I love it the traffic can be a mare) these areas would be good and would probably come in under budget. You'd need a car for these but I think a car is essential here anyway, you can rent to start with. Public transport is available and its good but it just doesn't go everywhere, yet. Mirdiff isn't bad but if you are working in the marina I wouldn't advise it, also as its close the airport so lots of planes flying over but you get used it. I would avoid international city. Just for info you get different bang for you buck in different areas, if chiller is free that is big plus, we paid Empower (air conditioning charges) for 3 years its bloody expensive but the rent was cheaper. Also your annual rent directly impacts your electricity bill, you pay 5% of your annual rent on your bill over the year. Its always been roughly half our bill. if you move in July you be here for Ramadan, so I will be hard to move with the heat and the fasting but once you get through that you'll find the rest no bother. Will be a good time for apartment hunting as things will be quiet and easy to pick second hand furniture from people moving on as most do it after the school year. Good luck!

Cheers for the input, I have a car but really want to avoid the traffic. I have been in the middle east 6 years so I am used to the fasting and heat thankfully.
I am not sure which part of Dubai my job will be based so I guess that will alter my view on where to stay. Great point on electricity and chilled water. I had the same issue here, Chilled water is 2,600 aed for 3 months. We have a big place though.

I will have a look at the areas you advised.

wuffly · 11-01-2015 7:40am

If you are used to the ME then its a good time to move! Everything will be nice and quiet plus the Eid sales if you need to pick up stuff locally. You prob know this already but don't be fooled by the lovely summer/Ramadan traffic when you are checking places out.

Jude13 · 11-01-2015 7:50am

Cheers Wuffly, I have been in Muscat for almost 6 years. I have pretty much all my furniture etc to ship up. I am just not used to the local traffic and places to avoid so your local knowledge is invlauable.

I have heard people renting 1/2 bed room apartments in the Bonnington, so I might do that for the 1st month. Any ideas of place which do similar?

wuffly · 11-01-2015 8:10am

There are lots of serviced apartments in Deira and Bur Dubai but personally would avoid them. You can get places in Al Barsha for about the same price, we stayed in Seven Sands for the first month we were here, its close to the Sharaf DG metro stop and and Mall of the emirates, we found them through booking.com, mystaydubai.com would also be worth a look but more expensive. There are some nice apartment buildings in Al Barsha as well but I don't know what the traffic would be like though, I know passing there in the mornings looks slow getting out but again depends on where you are working and need to go.

sashafierce · 12-01-2015 5:23pm

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Bluefoam · 12-01-2015 6:33pm

I would recommend having a car... Petrol, parking and tax relatively cheap.

Public transport is limited...

wuffly · 13-01-2015 5:49am

Public transport is limited as bluefoam said and even where its good in the summer time its too hot to be walking outside for any length of time. Especially on your way to work, you'll get there dripping. I got around using public transport and taxis for the first 6 months or so. I know a few people that live close to work and use taxi's but personally doing this on a daily basis this would wreck my head. its approx 100e a year to register your car (tax) my insurance its e200 for a ford focus its e18 to fill it.

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 5:57am

Wuffly, I got a call yesterday regarding Abu Dhabi, is there still an issue with working in AD and living in DXB? My missus will most likely be working in DXB. I am used to a commute so this might be an option.

wuffly · 13-01-2015 6:18am

As far as I am aware it applies to government companies and government & private joint ventures. So it will depend who you are working for. Some companies will allow it but cut your accommodation allowance, this only seems to apply to existing staff and even then only if its the husband working in Dubai. A few friends have recently made the move down they had to, both were going to lose out on about 1/3 of the their salaries.
They live in Al Reem near Yas its about 40 mins from Dubai, really nice area, plenty of facilities, the beach, the mall has opened on Yas and your only 20 mins from the cultural district on sadiyat. Not too bad of a commute to Dubai and generally going against the traffic. Rents are higher than Dubai but again better than losing 1/3 of your salary.

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 6:57am

My pals were saying rent is higher in AD? hence looking to live in Dubai and commute.

wuffly · 13-01-2015 7:07am

Sorry didn't make my last post very clear, rents are higher in AD by a good bit, but depending on who you work for you may not have the option to live in Dubai. If you do have the option to live in Dubai the company may not pay you your housing allowance which can be up to 1/3 of your salary, this what they have done to 'encourage' people to live in AD. In general salary packages are bit higher in AD. The Official line is that getting everyone to live there and avoid the commute is for health and safety reasons and to be fair there are a huge amount of crashes on that road and massive volumes of traffic. Personally wouldn't like to be hitting everyday. The reverse commute (AD-DXB) is a lot easier.

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 7:28am

Weird, I get a living allowance as part of my salary for the past 6 years and no cares where I live.
The roads are bad alright, I got stuck in fog between AD and DB once, not for the faint hearted.

The rent in DB just seems to be getting back to boom levels.

wuffly · 13-01-2015 7:41am

I get an all in package (its broken down on my payslip my company do it keep my basic salary low and therefore my end of service benefit low - classy!) they don't care where I live as long as i show up and do my job. AD government wants people earning in AD to spend in AD, they are paying more and the money is being spent in Dubai.... The rent has climbed back up a bit prob 75% where it was before but its seems to be leveling out. RERA is some help but its a pain in the ass fighting with the landlord and in the end you'll end up with a years notice to vacate. A lot of people are moving further out for cheaper rent. We've moved from an apartment in Biz bay to a villa in Jebel Ali for the same price. Don't love the traffic in the evenings but it was a great move. More worrying is landlords are going back to the one cheque... I don't know what's coming but I can't see this lasting, there will be some sort of dip but hopefully just enough to drop rents.

Bluefoam · 13-01-2015 8:02am

Just to reiterate... The road between AD and Dubai is aweful... My least favourite road in the world... However many people do commute between the two...

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 8:02am

I get ya, I am on the same deal regarding my salary.

Just had quick look at dubizzle, budget about 135K max and minimum need a 2 bed. I have been told JBR for fun and the springs for the quiet life. I am thinking I am more of a springs type guy.

Is there stuff to do in Jebel ALi? Played against them a few times years ago

wuffly · 13-01-2015 8:28am

Springs villas are lovely its a good spot they have plenty of facilities and its pretty central. I think its springs 4 that you should avoid, as they were finished by a not so reputable builder, as far as I know the others are pretty good. JBR is lovely and they have done a great job with the beach and the new outdoor mall. Wouldn't fancy the traffic or the knobs revving their supercars at night! We live close to Ibn Battuta mall which is nice, its not too big and has most things. Its on the metro so its handy for visitors. We have jebel ali club in our 'compound' its old but its very handy, has a bar, good fish & chips! (think rugby club very unusual by Dubai standards) and a pool and gym again all old but working fine. Also the Movenpick hotel is close for something a bit posher. The marina is a few mins in the car. There's an equestrian centre behind us, the shooting club a bit further down SZR has football pitches etc.. I don't know what local club plays there for soccer, its closed at the moment, OH was playing a recreational game there weekly. Jebel Ali Dragons rubgy club is also down here. Jebel Ali resort has lots of water sports. Al Qudra cycle track isn't too far closer to the Springs tho, great facility. Basically loads in JA!

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 8:34am

Wow, that sounds great. I haven't played rugby in nearly 2 years and won't be going back, 20's is for that stuff.

So one could commute by metro to central dubai? That would be sweet. Also without saying what you pay, what would a nice 2 bed with communal pool etc go for there?

Ps your help is invaluable, cheers.

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 8:47am

Ever heard of this place "Dubai Waterfront, an entirely new district in Dubai, Badrah aims to meet every need of the modern family and offer affordable housing options." claims to be in Jebel ALi

wuffly · 13-01-2015 8:50am

Just had a quick look on dubizzle all that's showing in the area up is Al Furjan which is a bit further out than us, but newer about 100-120 for a 2 bed, they have a small shopping centre. We are in Jebel Ali village which is fairly small so nothing showing up there. The gardens would be the same distance as us from Ibn but i can't see anything available there, next cloeset is discovery gardens, which has had a bad rep in the past but I know a few people that lived there and found it fine, its alot more established now. Might be worth checking with the develops Nakheel to see if they have properties available to rent in the area.If you do look at the Jebel Ali area, places like Jumeriah Village Circle/Triangle are technically JA but not very close and no facilities have been built there yet, although a city centre mall is in progress. Avoid Reeram very poorly finished. Yes, you could commute, drop the car at Ibn and get the metro before the rest of the crowd in the morning. I've done it myself a few times as I work near the canal project!

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 8:56am

Cheers for the feedback, rent is nuts compared to Muscat, I have a lovely 3 bed duplex with GF patio and shared pool for 120k.

I have heard bad things about discovery gardens also. Cheers again for the input

wuffly · 13-01-2015 8:57am

Jude13 wrote: »

Ever heard of this place "Dubai Waterfront, an entirely new district in Dubai, Badrah aims to meet every need of the modern family and offer affordable housing options." claims to be in Jebel ALi

It is JA but its miles away, its beyond the shooting club, I don't know anything about it. About 18k from where we are. Springs is quiet I think that area might totally silent! Will ask around!

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 8:58am

On Dubizzle if I want jebel ali loads of different jebel ali locations pop up, which is central/which would be best.

Bluefoam · 13-01-2015 9:16am

It also depends on your lifestyle... If you are interested in going out at night for meals, drinks or even clubs... Downtown, business bay, jumeirah etc are the most central... I'm reluctant to move out of the area as it would definitely effect my social life + I can walk to the shops, pub, mall, park, restaurants which is rare in Dubai.

Jude13 · 13-01-2015 9:34am

Bluefoam wrote: »

It also depends on your lifestyle... If you are interested in going out at night for meals, drinks or even clubs... Downtown, business bay, jumeirah etc are the most central... I'm reluctant to move out of the area as it would definitely effect my social life + I can walk to the shops, pub, mall, park, restaurants which is rare in Dubai.

Yeah I get that, I had a pretty good time in the past so chilling out a bit. We wouldnt head out much at all, it may be due to the lack of places to do here.
We tend to hang out at home, have friend over and have a braai. Sit outside with a couple of bottles. Not party animals by any means. I would like to be able to walk to the shop, it usually takes me two visits to get what I actually went there for.

wuffly · 13-01-2015 10:09am

Jude13 wrote: »

On Dubizzle if I want jebel ali loads of different jebel ali locations pop up, which is central/which would be best.

I'd narrow it down to Jebel Ali village, it still covers a large enough area. look up Ibn Battuta mall on google maps and you get an idea of the layout of the area. Al Muntazah complex is also close but nothing showing on dubizz.

The Dubai Thread [Merged]

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