General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

SeaFields · 04-02-2016 2:57pm

Boards did a proper constituency based voting thing last time as far as I remember. Is that been done this time does anyone know.

smash · 04-02-2016 2:59pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

What was the choices when FG came in, or if a different party had come in? Either they would have had to do what FG did and dance to the tune of the people paying to keep the country afloat, or go under and implode.

This is my point.

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Actually SF wanted to raid the pension fund at the time. Doesn't take a genius to see that would be a fckin awful idea.

SF specialise in criticising whatever party is in power at the time, without ever proffering decent ideas if their own.

They were just spouting shíte. The reality is that they would have bent over and said yes mam, no mam to the Troika exactly like FG and Labour did.

Lollipops23 · 04-02-2016 3:05pm

smash wrote: »

The reality is that they would have bent over and said yes mam, no mam to the Troika exactly like FG and Labour did.

I agree entirely- some of our countrymen seem to have a warped perspective of how powerless Ireland really is in the grand scheme of things. We are not big enough nor are we important enough to have ever stood up to the ECB. And going along with their terms has gotten us out of the woods.

smash · 04-02-2016 3:14pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I agree entirely- some of our countrymen seem to have a warped perspective of how powerless Ireland really is in the grand scheme of things. We are not big enough nor are we important enough to have ever stood up to the ECB. And going along with their terms has gotten us out of the woods.

There's a hell of a lot of people who think that FG and Labour lead an economic recover all on their own though. I think people need to step back and remember their broken promises rather than the instructions they took.

Huntergonzo · 04-02-2016 3:19pm

Why is Not Voting, not an option? As it stands it's doubtful that I will be heading to the polling station but I will intermittently listen out for a party/candidate seeking drastic socially liberal reforms and I would be inclined to vote for such a party/candidate provided of course I found them to be genuine.

Also I'm not a fan of populism so I don't want to hear false promises, outright lies, question dodging, extremely vague catch all answers or worst of all, I don't want to hear about Irish Water. All of that shíte is just juvenile, circus performer nonsense aimed at the non-thinking voter.

Anyway what are the odds of me finding such a party/candidate?

Custardpi · 04-02-2016 3:29pm

Menas wrote: »

I have a long list of grievances with all of the main parties. God love any candidate who knocks on my door.

Trouble is that I am so pissed off with the main parties that I am left with independents to vote for. Waste of a vote there.

How so? Unless the polls are way out (which has been known to happen) it's quite likely that none of the main parties will be able to form a stable government on their own or with amenable coalition partners. This means some sort of rainbow coalition with the support of independents, who will be able to extract some juicy concessions & funding for their constituencies in return for their vote.

Buona Fortuna · 04-02-2016 6:59pm

smash wrote: »

But if SF had been in power they'd have had to follow the plan set out by the ECB and the Troika too, would would have had the same result for us. Would you be praising them too?

I think it was quite weak praise Smashy tbh - they're hardly on my Christmas list.

I think you probably know the answer to that

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-02-2016 7:07pm

For the first time since I turned 18 I won't be voting SF.

AAA, Socialist Party and Indies for me this time.

masti123 · 04-02-2016 7:35pm

CFlat wrote: »

And while we're talking about memory fails, the piece de resistance of all memory fails would be voting for a party whose President doesn't even remember that he was the leader of a terrorist organisation for 3 decades. Now that's a memory fail of epic proportions.

Got anyone to back up that claim or is it just hearsay and rumours? Using "they're the RA" argument against Sinn Féin in the election is a very outdated and ignorant sentiment.

smash · 04-02-2016 7:42pm

The IMF, fiscal council of Ireland, ECB and even Michael D Higgins have public stated that FG need to step back and look at themselves with all these promises of tax cuts. FG still insist that the fiscal space can take it and that everyone else is wrong.

LordSutch · 04-02-2016 7:58pm

masti123 wrote: »

Got anyone to back up that claim or is it just hearsay and rumours? Using "they're the RA" argument against Sinn Féin in the election is a very outdated and ignorant sentiment.

Outdated & ignorant you say?

But the thing is, the Shinners still defend what the Provisional IRA did, so why wouldn't the IRA argument be brought up against them? Sinn Fein still defend the attrocities committed by the PIRA, hence most people will not vote for them (because of that stance) + their leftie illerate half baked economic "policies".

The Shinners are a dangerous bunch.

Galwayguy35 · 04-02-2016 8:06pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Outdated & ignorant you say?

But the thing is, the Shinners still defend what the Provisional IRA did, so why wouldn't the IRA argument be brought up against them? Sinn Fein still defend the attrocities committed by the PIRA, hence most people will not vote for them (because of that stance) + their leftie illerate half baked economic "policies".

The Shinners are a dangerous bunch.

So who are you voting for?

LordSutch · 04-02-2016 8:27pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So who are you voting for?

Before I answer, I should point out that the victims of Civil War politics are long since dead & buried. On the other hand, many of Sinn Fein & the PIRA's victims were murdered within living memory, while many disabled/dismembered & scarred victims still hobble around. Sinn Fein & the PIRA are directly connected to modern terrorism (within living memory).

VOTE FINE GAEL No 1

... and ensure the continued economic recovery & future prosperity of this country.

Zaph · 04-02-2016 8:35pm

SeaFields wrote: »

Boards did a proper constituency based voting thing last time as far as I remember. Is that been done this time does anyone know.

It's been mentioned in the admin forum but it's not clear yet whether it will be possible to do it again this time around.

Aidric · 04-02-2016 8:51pm

Before I posted I consulted the bastion of facts that is Wikipedia in order to confirm my hunch. From the 30's right through to the last GE either FG or FF have been the largest parties respectively.

That confirms that the Irish electorate is deeply conservative and centrist. Until such time as FF clears out all the members of the prior government they will be poisonous to all but their loyal supporters. Labour suffer from a lack of leadership and will go the same way as the previous minority government party, the Greens.

The alternatives to the main parties are disparate and confused. They'll soak up the 5% protest vote that aligns to their concerns but will never hold influence.

If I had to call it I would say FG will be returned the main party but not with a majority. The only interesting question is who they will form a government with.

RobertKK · 04-02-2016 9:11pm

I think the party with the most conservative spending plans will do well.

FG are taking a risk with their slightly complicated fiscal space,. which I don't like. We will be getting €1.4 billion back from the EU per annum in some new deal.
FG want to spend it, FF want to use it to lower our national debt.
Personally I favour lowering our debt. We are heading towards budget surpluses in the next few years if things keep going as they are.
I don't think it is an excuse to go spending like crazy.
We would be better putting some aside, while lowering the debt.

Didn't like how Enda implied the people were too stupid to understand economics, when he is the person who seems to run away from talking economics.

The troika plan worked a treat, FG/Lab seem to be a bit loose with the money since they left.

smash · 04-02-2016 9:17pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I think the party with the most conservative spending plans will do well.

FG are taking a risk with their slightly complicated fiscal space,. which I don't like. We will be getting €1.4 billion back from the EU per annum in some new deal.
FG want to spend it, FF want to use it to lower our national debt.
Personally I favour lowering our debt. We are heading towards budget surpluses in the next few years if things keep going as they are.
I don't think it is an excuse to go spending like crazy.
We would be better putting some aside, while lowering the debt.

Didn't like how Enda implied the people were too stupid to understand economics, when he is the person who seems to run away from talking economics.

The troika plan worked a treat, FG/Lab seem to be a bit loose with the money since they left.

Just like a comment on the radio this evening: "If you were just about scraping by and you had a couple of large mortgages and you won the lotto would you pay your debts, or buy more property?"

mansize · 04-02-2016 9:48pm

Aidric wrote: »

Before I posted I consulted the bastion of facts that is Wikipedia in order to confirm my hunch. From the 30's right through to the last GE either FG or FF have been the largest parties respectively.

That confirms that the Irish electorate is deeply conservative and centrist. Until such time as FF clears out all the members of the prior government they will be poisonous to all but their loyal supporters. Labour suffer from a lack of leadership and will go the same way as the previous minority government party, the Greens.

The alternatives to the main parties are disparate and confused. They'll soak up the 5% protest vote that aligns to their concerns but will never hold influence.

If I had to call it I would say FG will be returned the main party but not with a majority. The only interesting question is who they will form a government with.

If we are so conservative why were we the first country to allow marriage equality by public vote

mansize · 04-02-2016 9:49pm

Let's vote for the Troika!!!

Huntergonzo · 04-02-2016 10:20pm

mansize wrote: »

Let's vote for the Troika!!!

HaHa but sure look, it doesn't matter who people vote for Ireland will fall in line like every other country, that's how the world works. Greek voters fell for the outrageous lies of anti austerity parties and ended up no better than falling for the lies of establishment parties.

Politics is all about which lies you like best but in the long run it's irrelevant which party you choose because one way or the other, the little guy gets screwed.

RobertKK · 04-02-2016 10:25pm

So the €1.4 billion is extra money we can spend.
Looking at the FG plan and Lab are also spending the €1.4 billion. while FF and SF are not counting on it in their plans.
FG to scrap the USC which takes out €2.4 Billion, with €2.5 billion for a rainy day fun, €1 billion on capital spending and €4.2 billion for current spending.
So FG and Lab are for €10.1 billion in spending increases, with FF and SF going for €8.6 billion. With FF lowering the debt with the €1.4 billion, if you take capital and current spending increases to be the same, and the USC not to be scrapped by FF. That would leave €5.8 billion.
Will be interesting to see FF proposals.
Same for SF but I suspect they are hiking certain taxes which I disagree with.

My name is URL · 04-02-2016 10:31pm

mansize wrote: »

If we are so conservative why were we the first country to allow marriage equality by public vote

People can be very liberal socially while holding 'conservative' views on economic matters

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 04-02-2016 10:38pm

My name is URL wrote: »

People can be very liberal socially while holding 'conservative' views on economic matters

+1

And neither is necessarily a bad thing.

Huntergonzo · 04-02-2016 10:40pm

My name is URL wrote: »

People can be very liberal socially while holding 'conservative' views on economic matters

This I agree with, I'd love if we had a socially liberal party (extremely liberal now, not just liberalish) in Ireland that was also economically sensible, sadly such a party doesn't exist.

RobertKK · 04-02-2016 10:47pm

So FG got their figures wrong, and are now in excuse mode, going by Prime Time, and FF say they used the figures given by Michael Noonan, while SF spotted the mistake made by FG.
Labour who used the wrong figures too are blaming the department of finance.

Not a great confidence builder.

mikeym · 04-02-2016 10:53pm

Atari Jaguar :cool:

My name is URL · 04-02-2016 11:11pm

Huntergonzo wrote: »

This I agree with, I'd love if we had a socially liberal party (extremely liberal now, not just liberalish) in Ireland that was also economically sensible, sadly such a party doesn't exist.

It's a space that the Social Democrats were supposedly looking to fill but they've been rather lacklustre so far.

If change is what people really want then they don't have anyone to blame but themselves when the opportunity to have it realized is largely ignored.

I'm guilty of it. I could have 'got involved' with them... helped out in some small way. But I didn't because I'm a lazy bastard and relatively happy with my lot

All I can do now is moan about it online until the next election comes round

smash · 04-02-2016 11:16pm

RobertKK wrote: »

So FG got their figures wrong, and are now in excuse mode, going by Prime Time, and FF say they used the figures given by Michael Noonan, while SF spotted the mistake made by FG.
Labour who used the wrong figures too are blaming the department of finance.

Not a great confidence builder.

"We thought we found some cash behind the sofa... We were wrong!"

Huntergonzo · 04-02-2016 11:30pm

My name is URL wrote: »

It's a space that the Social Democrats were supposedly looking to fill but they've been rather lacklustre so far.

If change is what people really want then they don't have anyone to blame but themselves when the opportunity to have it realized is largely ignored.

I'm guilty of it. I could have 'got involved' with them... helped out in some small way. But I didn't because I'm a lazy bastard and relatively happy with my lot

All I can do now is moan about it online until the next election comes round

Ah I don't know about the Social Democrats, unless I'm mistaken one of the first things they stated when formed was their opposition to water charges and once I hear that I instantly lose a huge amount of respect for that party/politician. I just thought, ah here we go again, more pupulist shíte and no substance.

Ps, now by no means am I looking forward to the prospect of paying water charges but that deal is long done, so I'll be ignoring any party that jumps on that ridiculous bandwagon.

Also I don't think it's laziness that stops a lot of people from getting involved, it's the electorate (and also some people are just too busy). Personally I'm no angel but one thing I am is honest, to a fault, I don't sugarcoat things. Now that's NOT what voters want, they want big smiles, big handshakes and enormous lies......politics is a game purpose built for shameless liars, honesty and openness would be castigated!

masti123 · 05-02-2016 12:19am

LordSutch wrote: »

Before I answer, I should point out that the victims of Civil War politics are long since dead & buried. On the other hand, many of Sinn Fein & the PIRA's victims were murdered within living memory, while many disabled/dismembered & scarred victims still hobble around. Sinn Fein & the PIRA are directly connected to modern terrorism (within living memory).

VOTE FINE GAEL No 1

... and ensure the continued economic recovery & future prosperity of this country.

Were the African National Congress terrorists too? Or were they rebels? Were the founders of the state terrorists or rebels?
An awkward little treaty known as the Good Friday agreement where 2 nation states tacitly recognised the PIRA campaign as being part of a larger conflict brought on by inequality.

Interestingly enough, the most vocal against the GFA were dissident republicans, extremist loyalists....and wait for it....Fine Gael leaning loons in the Sindo. How many more would be dead had FG/Sindo got their way and the conflict continued?

It wasnt me123 · 05-02-2016 1:16am

Just as a matter of interest folks, while the TD's are running around saying "pick me, me, me, me", who the hell is running the country? If we can survive 4 weeks without a leader, perhaps we can put them all on part time hours and save a fortune.

Custardpi · 05-02-2016 1:27am

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest folks, while the TD's are running around saying "pick me, me, me, me", who the hell is running the country? If we can survive 4 weeks without a leader, perhaps we can put them all on part time hours and save a fortune.

The permanent government i.e. the civil service. Most T.D.s (often including those with actual Cabinet positions) have very little personal involvement in affairs of state outside their own constituencies, they'll generally just go along with what their civil service advisers tell them. Were it not necessary to vote on an annual budget (usually a formality anyway) they could probably suspend the Dáil indefinitely & most people would notice very little difference.

mansize · 05-02-2016 3:00am

My name is URL wrote: »

People can be very liberal socially while holding 'conservative' views on economic matters

are we economically conservative???? Don't think so

Ozymandius2011 · 05-02-2016 11:45am

JustTheOne wrote: »

No problem with genuine cases like your mothers but these people with 5 or 6 kids and no job expecting a free house.

The programme the other week where 2 of the 3 women featured living in hotels got pregnant again while living in a hotel!

Like come on seriously. All they kept saying is how hard it is and they want a house.

Don't get bloody pregnant again until you are more stable and it might help.

Its hardly the childrens fault though. They should not have to live 8-10 to one hotel room like the woman on the series "My homeless family".

Richard Hillman · 05-02-2016 2:14pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Its hardly the childrens fault though. They should not have to live 8-10 to one hotel room like the woman on the series "My homeless family".

Agreed. The children should be taken care of by the state since their parents cannot look after them. They should be put into homes until the parent can put a roof over their head.

Mesrine65 · 05-02-2016 2:27pm

LordSutch wrote: »

VOTE FINE GAEL No 1

... and ensure the continued economic recovery & future prosperity of this country.

Was it not the EMF that ensured economic recovery & future prosperity of this country?

FG's hands were tied & were only complying with the dictates of our european overlords IMHO

Fine Gael are claiming kudos for the economic recovery when in fact they were simply the facilitator for the EMF.

Ozymandius2011 · 05-02-2016 2:34pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Agreed. The children should be taken care of by the state since their parents cannot look after them. They should be put into homes until the parent can put a roof over their head.

After recent revelations I wouldnt have much confidence in the capacity of the State to protect the children.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 05-02-2016 2:41pm

I don't know if this was posted already, but RTE have a one minute video from each candidate.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/

questionmark? · 05-02-2016 2:44pm

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Was it not the EMF that ensured economic recovery & future prosperity of this country?

FG's hands were tied & were only complying with the dictates of our european overlords IMHO

Fine Gael are claiming kudos for the economic recovery when in fact they were simply the facilitator for the EMF.

On that basis if FG did nothing then people can't have a go at them for getting stuff wrong as it wasn't them. Or is it give them no credit for good stuff and slag them for the bad stuff?

smash · 05-02-2016 2:47pm

Skye Enough Oak wrote: »

I don't know if this was posted already, but RTE have a one minute video from each candidate.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/

When running for a government position you'd assume that half of these people would make an effort to look the part but a lot of them seem subscribe to the Mick Wallace fashion newsletter.

smash · 05-02-2016 2:49pm

questionmark? wrote: »

On that basis if FG did nothing then people can't have a go at them for getting stuff wrong as it wasn't them. Or is it give them no credit for good stuff and slag them for the bad stuff?

You'll have to list the good stuff. All I can think of is the SSM referendum. Which is what they should be remembered for, but realistically they'll be remembered for the DOB deals, the broken promises and the shambles that is Irish Water.

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2016 3:55pm

If any of them knock at my door I am going to ask them what is thier first priority if they get elected/re-elected. Not in a generalities like the economy, health etc. What specific thing do they want to do first. Not including setting up thier voicemail's and getting the secretary to make them a cup of tea.

As far as I am concerned it is buyers market for voters plenty of choices, but unfortunately plenty of the same noise.

signostic · 05-02-2016 4:45pm

Skye Enough Oak wrote: »

I don't know if this was posted already, but RTE have a one minute video from each candidate.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/

anyone of them make a complete hames of the 1 minute video?

smash · 05-02-2016 6:08pm

5 years ago free GP care for all was promised. Now Loe says it's never going to be possible and should never have been promised but Joan is out canvassing and telling people that it will happen in the next 5 years. Fcuking idiots!

TripleC · 05-02-2016 6:59pm

RobertKK wrote: »

So FG got their figures wrong, and are now in excuse mode, going by Prime Time, and FF say they used the figures given by Michael Noonan, while SF spotted the mistake made by FG.
Labour who used the wrong figures too are blaming the department of finance.

Not a great confidence builder.

Hmmmmmm...not quite true.

Economics isn't called the Dismal Science for nothing because in this case none of the Parties actually got anything wrong.

I am surprised that this hasn't been clarified before now, but the difference between SF and FG,Lab, FF is that SF are using the Net figures whilst I believe the other Parties are utilizing Gross figures. Its a case of lies, damn lies and statistics. I will try to dig the figures (I don't have them to hand just now) out but I am almost 100% sure this is the case.

I note that "The Journal" have labeled this as a conclusive victory for SF, although thats hardly surprising given their readership and Editorial line. However, its disconcerting that other Journalists are doing much the same. A return of the "if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth" strategy....why change the habits of a lifetime!

satguy · 05-02-2016 7:00pm

Enda was on Morning Ireland, I couldn't believe it,, The invisible man shows his face,, OH, it was on the radio..

And he still said nothing of note, well maybe that he will not do a deal with the Tipp Weasel..
I remember when that Weasel was Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications...

""Michael Lowry says Moriarty findings will not affect his chances at the polls""

Maybe so, But Enda and FG still do a lot of deals with other main player in that not forgotten treasonous episode..

Are they all so tainted now, that Gerry looks like a good guy,, Maybe so...

MilesMorales1 · 05-02-2016 7:10pm

Ugh, they have Clare Daly's face all over posters where I live, wish she'd **** off. Same with Fianna Fail candidate, he looks smug as anything.

bnt · 05-02-2016 7:23pm

It's weird that they let literal West Brits such as myself vote for TDs, but they let Irish immigrants in the UK vote for MPs, so I suppose it balances out. I'm in Dublin-Rathdown, trying to make sense of what's going on here. We have the likes of Alan Shatter for FG and Peter Mathews as an Indie.

Mathews was kicked out of FG after refusing to vote for the "Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013". The weird thing is, I can't find a definitive statement of why he wouldn't vote for it. Is he an ardent pro-lifer who is against abortion in all eventualities? Or did he think the bill was too strict and was hoping for a law more like the UK's? This being Ireland, he's probably a pro-lifer, and if so this is one vote he's not getting.

ScumLord · 05-02-2016 7:25pm

Skye Enough Oak wrote: »

I don't know if this was posted already, but RTE have a one minute video from each candidate.

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/candidates/

Yeah, Skye Enough Oak mentioned it earlier in the thread.

Bongalongherb · 05-02-2016 8:54pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

After recent revelations I wouldnt have much confidence in the capacity of the State to protect the children.

Nor would I have much confidence in them either to protect its citizens after shutting down most Garda stations in their time.

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-stations-closures-776693-Jan2013/

http://www.thejournal.ie/heres-what-happened-to-dublin-garda-station-2405633-Oct2015/

General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

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