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Political Policing? PSNI soft on Loyalists

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13567…13

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    #62
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    People know people's religion in Northern Ireland. Thats just the way it is.

    And tribal violence/intimidation hits another level of your being than normal vandalism/thuggery. If you had experienced it you would know.
    I live in n.ireland, are you saying a gang of protestant 13 year olds come mauroding into nationlist areas? And then the poilce using the clever sudinom "english" showing their obvious bias then collude with the protestant (which you just know they are) gang.

    Also, do we all get this gift of religion detection? Can you guess my religion?


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    #63
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    So it was not terrorists bombing/shooting to force their agenda it was actually the british gov working like a puppet master keeping a reason to spend massive amounts on security and training in n.i. would be cheeper to keep sending troops to Kenya, canada etc for training.

    Do you think people woke up one morning and said hey Im going to join the UVF or the IRA just for kicks? Do you really think that the British Government could not have done more to stop violence and address its roots?

    The whole idea that paramilitaries on both sides were random psychopaths is just not true.

    They themselves admitted that experience in Northern Ireland had come in very handy. I will get the link later.


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    #64
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    I live in n.ireland, are you saying a gang of protestant 13 year olds come mauroding into nationlist areas? And then the poilce using the clever sudinom "english" showing their obvious bias then collude with the protestant (which you just know they are) gang.

    No.


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    #65
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    I live in n.ireland, are you saying a gang of protestant 13 year olds come mauroding into nationlist areas? And then the poilce using the clever sudinom "english" showing their obvious bias then collude with the protestant (which you just know they are) gang.

    I have heard plenty of accusations of bias by members of the PUL community by the way.


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    #66
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    gallag wrote: »
    This is funny, how do you know their religion? And I have complaned about kids hitting my cars with balls and people letting their dogs crap everywhere and they never sent in gunships, must be collusion also, but the constable was not named english so I am probably safe.

    I know their religion because they told me when they were telling me I moved into a protestant area and I should leave.
    So you think its funny to vandalise someones car do you? You think its funny to smash someones windows do you? You think its funny for four teenage boys to throw stones at a thirteen year old girl do you? Do you also think its funny when teenage thugs get their kneecaps blown out with a shotgun? Ever wonder why such thugs get their kneecaps blown out? Is that what makes you laugh?


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    #67
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Yes I can, and the same behaviour on the other side is the best recruitment to this "Unionist Forum" and "Protestant United Voice". I presume that the British state want to keep both "tribes" fighting among themselves but to contain the problems.

    To be frank with you after they got violence down to "managable levels" I think the British State allowed the Troubles to continue as it was a good training ground.

    Divide and conquer. ok now it makes a bit more sense, thank you.


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    #68
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    gallag wrote: »
    I live in n.ireland, are you saying a gang of protestant 13 year olds come mauroding into nationlist areas? And then the poilce using the clever sudinom "english" showing their obvious bias then collude with the protestant (which you just know they are) gang.

    Also, do we all get this gift of religion detection? Can you guess my religion?

    I never said I lived in a Nationlist area. Incorrect assumption on your part.


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    #69
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    gallag wrote: »
    This is funny, how do you know their religion? And I have complaned about kids hitting my cars with balls and people letting their dogs crap everywhere and they never sent in gunships, must be collusion also, but the constable was not named english so I am probably safe.
    SoulandForm wrote: »
    People know people's religion in Northern Ireland. Thats just the way it is.

    And tribal violence/intimidation hits another level of your being than normal vandalism/thuggery. If you had experienced it you would know.

    MOD NOTE:

    Neither of you actually know about anyone else's experiences, personal attributes, or any other aspect of their identity. If people in these kinds of threads could stop making assumptions about others, someday we might actually have a civil, useful discussion. But if this keeps up, this thread will not be open much longer.


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    #70
    fianna saor
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭fianna saor


    of course the psni is soft on loyalists. id say a good percentage of them are in fact loyalist themselves. if republicans were causing the furore they are causing it would be called riots but because they are loyalist its called 'protests'


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    #71
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    fianna saor wrote: »
    of course the psni is soft on loyalists. id say a good percentage of them are in fact loyalist themselves. if republicans were causing the furore they are causing it would be called riots but because they are loyalist its called 'protests'

    Well at least 30% are not, certainly the police officers murderec in the last couple of years where not.


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    #72
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Offy wrote: »

    I know their religion because they told me when they were telling me I moved into a protestant area and I should leave.
    So you think its funny to vandalise someones car do you? You think its funny to smash someones windows do you? You think its funny for four teenage boys to throw stones at a thirteen year old girl do you? Do you also think its funny when teenage thugs get their kneecaps blown out with a shotgun? Ever wonder why such thugs get their kneecaps blown out? Is that what makes you laugh?

    Just out of interest, what led you to end up moving into a hostile area?


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    #73
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    junder wrote: »
    Just out of interest, what led you to end up moving into a hostile area?

    I moved here from the midlands. I know nothing about what areas are protestant and what areas are catholic. I looked for flags, painted curbs, etc. and this area has nothing to indicate its a protestant or catholic area. The estate agent said a lot of foreign nationals lived in this estate so I mistakenly thought it was natural. Even to this day there are no flags flying anywhere near the estate. Its not what I would describe as a staunch protestant area and if one single family were to move out it would be a lovely area to live in. That one family has two teenage kids that have a following of younger teenage kids behind them but in total it only adds up to five teens and more often than not there is only three of them. The other two are only with them periodically.
    Several complaints have been made to the PSNI by at least four different families, all from different countries. Myself from Ireland, a Portuguese family, a Latvian family and a Polish family. The most the PSNI will do is send a car out which drives by them and doesnt even stop to move them on. The car I moved here with from the south was replaced after the damage to the roof and bonnet. Since then Ive have to replace four tires after they were slashed. There are several scrapes on the car now that were not there when I bought it and no Ive never been in a crash in this car. Three times my front window was smashed when I was at work. I cant let my daughter outside the house without me been there or they throw stones at her. Name calling is a constant thing.
    I would move house if it was as easy to find a house as it is in the south but its not Im afraid and I dont see why I should have to move because of ill reared little brats. Even if I did move house how would I know Im not moving to an area thats worse? Do I have to look for an estate with tricolours painted on the kerbs? Id prefer to live in a neutral area but how do you tell what areas are neutral?
    In fact Id prefer if the PSNI would do their job, the job my tax money pays them to do.


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    #74
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    junder wrote: »
    Well at least 30% are not, certainly the police officers murderec in the last couple of years where not.

    How many of this 30% hold senior positions? ie how many of this 30% are decision makers? How many of this 30% have to follow orders and have no say in those orders?


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    #75
    fianna saor
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭fianna saor


    junder wrote: »
    Well at least 30% are not, certainly the police officers murderec in the last couple of years where not.

    where does the 30% figure come from?


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    #76
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Offy wrote: »

    I moved here from the midlands. I know nothing about what areas are protestant and what areas are catholic. I looked for flags, painted curbs, etc. and this area has nothing to indicate its a protestant or catholic area. The estate agent said a lot of foreign nationals lived in this estate so I mistakenly thought it was natural. Even to this day there are no flags flying anywhere near the estate. Its not what I would describe as a staunch protestant area and if one single family were to move out it would be a lovely area to live in. That one family has two teenage kids that have a following of younger teenage kids behind them but in total it only adds up to five teens and more often than not there is only three of them. The other two are only with them periodically.
    Several complaints have been made to the PSNI by at least four different families, all from different countries. Myself from Ireland, a Portuguese family, a Latvian family and a Polish family. The most the PSNI will do is send a car out which drives by them and doesnt even stop to move them on. The car I moved here with from the south was replaced after the damage to the roof and bonnet. Since then Ive have to replace four tires after they were slashed. There are several scrapes on the car now that were not there when I bought it and no Ive never been in a crash in this car. Three times my front window was smashed when I was at work. I cant let my daughter outside the house without me been there or they throw stones at her. Name calling is a constant thing.
    I would move house if it was as easy to find a house as it is in the south but its not Im afraid and I dont see why I should have to move because of ill reared little brats. Even if I did move house how would I know Im not moving to an area thats worse? Do I have to look for an estate with tricolours painted on the kerbs? Id prefer to live in a neutral area but how do you tell what areas are neutral?
    In fact Id prefer if the PSNI would do their job, the job my tax money pays them to do.
    Sorry to hear this bud, I have a daughter myself, I hope things pick up for you soon, mabey get a few like minded neighbours together for a watch? The police are toothless now a days, I assure you many people suffer from these hoods in many areas and the police are scarred to deal with it. Its a social problem in all of the uk and ireland.


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    #77
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Offy wrote: »

    How many of this 30% hold senior positions? ie how many of this 30% are decision makers? How many of this 30% have to follow orders and have no say in those orders?
    It dosent really matter, the psni is neutered, they have so many boards/quangos/ombudsman to report every incident to, they are probably the most monitored police service in the world. I think they need to be harder on both sides, it so politicised now, they arrest a joyrider in west belfast sinn fein is on shouting about brutality, they shoot a rubberbbullet and the dup is on shouting brutality. They are not a police force, they are a pawn for point scoring with the politicians. They must be close to neutral as both sides complane of favourtisim but I suspect the real reason things never get done is officers protecting their jobs/pensions to scarred to act.


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    #78
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    I would like to know what the delay is in arresting loyalists who attempted to murder PSNI officer by means of burning to death, off an officer in a patrol car a number off weeks back, the site off this recent crime is approx within a half a mile off this latest attemtped killing.
    Is there; as there clearly was in the past a case off the law and justice being implemented in accordance too who-ever commited the crime. I for one will be following the the outcome very carefully off these latest arrests, and making a comparative to the pursuit off the loyalist rioters\paramilitarys that attempted to murder PSNI personnel in the same area, as this attempted bombing a number off weeks back.
    There are patterns emerging again i fear, that could lead to alot off unrest again in six off the nine counties off ulster.It is ironic that it has taken two attempted murders off police officers in belfast for me to conclude i dont have much confidence in the PSNI, couple this with their (PSNI) handling off a month off anarchy, i despair.


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    #79
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Offy wrote: »
    I would like to know what the delay is in arresting loyalists who attempted to murder PSNI officer by means of burning to death, off an officer in a patrol car a number off weeks back, the site off this recent crime is approx within a half a mile off this latest attemtped killing.

    This isnt the first time Loyalists have attacked the Police in a serious fashion.

    See below where a DUP member refuses to condemn an attack on an RUC home during the Anglo-Irish crisis.



    However no attacks where made on Alliance activists who supported the Anglo-Irish agreement at the time. That is the really sinister development.


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    #80
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Offy wrote: »
    I moved here from the midlands. I know nothing about what areas are protestant and what areas are catholic. I looked for flags, painted curbs, etc. and this area has nothing to indicate its a protestant or catholic area. The estate agent said a lot of foreign nationals lived in this estate so I mistakenly thought it was natural. Even to this day there are no flags flying anywhere near the estate. Its not what I would describe as a staunch protestant area and if one single family were to move out it would be a lovely area to live in. That one family has two teenage kids that have a following of younger teenage kids behind them but in total it only adds up to five teens and more often than not there is only three of them. The other two are only with them periodically.
    Several complaints have been made to the PSNI by at least four different families, all from different countries. Myself from Ireland, a Portuguese family, a Latvian family and a Polish family. The most the PSNI will do is send a car out which drives by them and doesnt even stop to move them on. The car I moved here with from the south was replaced after the damage to the roof and bonnet. Since then Ive have to replace four tires after they were slashed. There are several scrapes on the car now that were not there when I bought it and no Ive never been in a crash in this car. Three times my front window was smashed when I was at work. I cant let my daughter outside the house without me been there or they throw stones at her. Name calling is a constant thing.
    I would move house if it was as easy to find a house as it is in the south but its not Im afraid and I dont see why I should have to move because of ill reared little brats. Even if I did move house how would I know Im not moving to an area thats worse? Do I have to look for an estate with tricolours painted on the kerbs? Id prefer to live in a neutral area but how do you tell what areas are neutral?
    In fact Id prefer if the PSNI would do their job, the job my tax money pays them to do.

    If I was in your place I would leave now. I have a friend whose family was targeted by loyalists. Every few years around the 12th they would have a window smashed. Eventually their dogs were killed and a petrol bomb landed in an upstairs bedroom but thankfully failed to ignite.
    Ask someone at work where to move to. If you're in North or West Belfast it should be easy to relocate. In East Belfast it would be better to move to a mixed area and keep your head down... although with kids its not so easy.


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    #81
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    If I was in your place I would leave now. I have a friend whose family was targeted by loyalists. Every few years around the 12th they would have a window smashed. Eventually their dogs were killed and a petrol bomb landed in an upstairs bedroom but thankfully failed to ignite.
    Ask someone at work where to move to. If you're in North or West Belfast it should be easy to relocate. In East Belfast it would be better to move to a mixed area and keep your head down... although with kids its not so easy.

    Im going nowhere! 'No surrender'!!!!!
    In fairness I come from a very republician family, I havent talked to most of them in years. I always condemed my dad for his view on the north. Now Im man enough to admit that Im the one in the wrong. At the end of the day we dont need the PSNI, all we really need is a phone and a name.


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    #82
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Offy wrote: »

    Im going nowhere! 'No surrender'!!!!!
    all we really need is a phone and a name.
    What does this mean?


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    #83
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Offy wrote: »
    Im going nowhere! 'No surrender'!!!!!
    In fairness I come from a very republician family, I havent talked to most of them in years. I always condemed my dad for his view on the north. Now Im man enough to admit that Im the one in the wrong. At the end of the day we dont need the PSNI, all we really need is a phone and a name.

    If i was you i'd move into a more irish area. This won't be good for your daughter when she reaches the age where she will be looking to make friends.


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    #84
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    PUL community react more to arrests and token gestures. I don't know what in the name of god would have to be done to republicans to get the crowds out they had over the past few weeks.

    Things like Ardoyne riots the vast majority of nationalists couldn't care less about those getting arrested. They think the arrests are warranted. Protestants have things like the orders and bands so they can network a lot better if they feel aggrieved.

    It was during the summer I think the PSNI apologised to loyalists for making them start a riot... what planet like?

    I think the "continuity RUC" description is quite sad, sums up everything wrong with the perceptions of the RUC and the PSNI. The PSNI just know that they face a much steeper reaction when arresting loyalists, unfair I guess but its not a normal place and don't expect anything to change in the next decade or few


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    #85
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    PUL community react more to arrests and token gestures. I don't know what in the name of god would have to be done to republicans to get the crowds out they had over the past few weeks.

    The Catholic Community is optimistic. It sees the numbers turning in its favour and it sees increased social mobility because of it has better schools and because of the anti-discrimination legislation. Thats a key difference between and large sections of the Unionist/Loyalist population, which sees that while the Union is secure all the "fun" is been taken out of it. The Loyalists really should have been rioting about failing state schools.


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    #86
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    The Catholic Community is optimistic. It sees the numbers turning in its favour and it sees increased social mobility because of it has better schools and because of the anti-discrimination legislation. Thats a key difference between and large sections of the Unionist/Loyalist population, which sees that while the Union is secure all the "fun" is been taken out of it. The Loyalists really should have been rioting about failing state schools.
    Have you been up the falls lately, it's the Wild West at night, the hoods rule, they have no respect for the police, Sinn Fein (and friends) or the very community's they live in, so I wouldn't be to quick to look down your nose at loyalist community's, have you ever heard of the IBA (I buck anything)

    Here's is a bit of info on this delightful group

    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=2718264791&ShowSims=Y

    http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16963.0

    http://republican-news.org/current/news/2010/08/graveyard_attacked_as_hoods_ch.html


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    #87
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Junder no I havent been down the falls recently, I have only been on the falls once in my life anyway. I moved south and only return to see family and friends as well as vote (I vote for the Workers Party NOT Sinn Fein). I would strongly advice you to consider doing the same. Yes anti-social behaviour and other problems are rife within Republican communities- we know that. But OVER ALL the Catholic (note I didnt say Republican) is optimistic about the future.

    Would you agree that it would be more constructive to be out rioting over unemployment and failing schools?


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    #88
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    There is a problem that can't be denied, loads of stupid juvinile scumbag gangs, they would have been sored back in the day.


    The PSNI didn't step into the vacuum as one would have hoped.


    But sadly protestant working class areas aren't doing well at all, catholic ones are at least getting better in job terms, something which seems to make protestant working class areas bitter

    Whats needed is working class unity


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    #89
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Junder no I havent been down the falls recently, I have only been on the falls once in my life anyway. I moved south and only return to see family and friends as well as vote (I vote for the Workers Party NOT Sinn Fein). I would strongly advice you to consider doing the same. Yes anti-social behaviour and other problems are rife within Republican communities- we know that. But OVER ALL the Catholic (note I didnt say Republican) is optimistic about the future.

    Would you agree that it would be more constructive to be out rioting over unemployment and failing schools?

    I don't thinking rioting is constructive full stop


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    #90
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    junder wrote: »
    Have you been up the falls lately, it's the Wild West at night, the hoods rule, they have no respect for the police, Sinn Fein (and friends) or the very community's they live in, so I wouldn't be to quick to look down your nose at loyalist community's, have you ever heard of the IBA (I buck anything)

    Here's is a bit of info on this delightful group

    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=2718264791&ShowSims=Y

    http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=16963.0

    http://republican-news.org/current/news/2010/08/graveyard_attacked_as_hoods_ch.html

    The IBA are gone AFAIK. Hoods will always be there, especially in such deprived areas. And with no strong paramilitary groups on the streets they have free reign. Remember the PLO? They didn't last long once it was rumoured they were into drug money.


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    #91
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »

    The IBA are gone AFAIK. Hoods will always be there, especially in such deprived areas. And with no strong paramilitary groups on the streets they have free reign. Remember the PLO? They didn't last long once it was rumoured they were into drug money.

    The IBA are just the tip of the ice berg, the PSNI has had to set up a special task force just to deal with the 'hood' problem. In west Belfast. The roads around divis are like a race track at night with joyriders


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