POC's Red Card.++ Mod Warning. Read OP++

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 1:17am #1

Mod Warning

Watch the tribalism and LvM crap. Discuss the incident all ye like, but any incivility, personal or player abuse and the ban-sticks coming out.

Toom

Just thought that this incident would warrant its own thread, I know that there has been some talk about it in the match thread but I've a feeling that more opinions will come out if/when he is cited re. the length of any ban.

Personally I think that it was just reckless/foolish play by the great man. The fake tan's were obstructing players and holding them back all night, as were Munster yet the ref did nothing about it.

I don't think that the flailing forearm should have been anything more than a yellow, it was stupid but doesn't deserve a ban and if he gets a ban it should be no more than 2 weeks. If Thomas (I think) didn't go down like a ton of bricks, there would have been no card. He might have a future acting if the rugby doesn't work out. I doubt it would have been a red if it wasn't Berdos pinging POC tbh. They don't have the best of histories.

Seeing that it is a Munster player and the club captain, I expect a ridiculous ban ~16 weeks :rolleyes:. The IRB would be better off giving penalties for obstruction and holding players back rather than making an example of POC. At least he will be well rested for the WC.

Anyone have any opinions about possible citing on Varley for gouging in the 75th minute and Leamy for a shoulder charge in a ruck in the 79th minute. I think they are pretty much nothing incidents but we'll have to wait and see.

backrow67n8 · 13-12-2010 1:33am

Good thread!! lovely cant wait to come home tomorrow after work and go straight to page 3 for the leinster v munster slagging

Don't think it was red and have seen guys get away with that completely but imo it was yellow and a kick up the rear from McGahan for losing his cool

13-12-2010 1:40am

If you honestly believe that a swinging forearm the size of an average leg hitting you in the jaw wouldn't floor you, and that J.Thomas was milking it, you're insane.

Also, to say that cracking down on cynical penalties vs hot headed and reckless behaviour would be more beneficial to the game, consider that very few people have ever been badly hurt on a rugby pitch because someone obstructed them, or held them down in a ruck. Yes its frustrating, and can get on your nerves and slow you down, but you act like a man and get on with it.

However, people have been hurt by players lashing out, not just in rugby, in soccer and other games. Roy Keane ended someone's career with a moment of hot headedness.

Referees are there to protect the players as much as they are to ensure the game runs smoothly. Punishing reckless foul play should be top of their list.

As I mentioned in the match thread several times, O'Connell's problem was self inflicted, the foul play occurred the second he shifted his body to swing the forearm.

The contact, intent, or lack of either, are both completely irrelevant.

The whistle had been blown, but he lost his composure. He is 100% to blame

CouchSmart · 13-12-2010 1:42am

Expecting 8 weeks brought down to 5 for previous record.

mathepac · 13-12-2010 1:44am

I feel very strongly about this and I fell POC was the victim of the on-going failure of match officials to apply the laws of the game even-handedly at the breakdown and at set-pieces (On a side-note, an exemplary Irish official has been the subject of a succesful hate-campaign by New Zealand because he refereed Ritchie McCaw according to the laws and nullified his claims to greatness by penalising his illegal tactics at line-out and breakdown).

POC was being prevented from joining the play because he was being held illegally. I feel the swing was a genuine attempt to free himself from the illegal interference. The referee stated POC struck his opponent with his elbow - he did not - it was his hand and wrist that made contact, which is not ro say that a slap from Paulie is a minor thing, but Thomas going down as if he'd been shot was way OTT.

If the officials has penalised Thomas in the first place, Paulie would have finished the match.

What tarriff does Paulie's action deserve? I feel a yellow for dangerous play would have been more than sufficient and a training course for the match officials on the off-the-ball laws, whiuch they seemed to wake up to when Mastermind Donners held 2 or 3 players on the ground later.

Clive Owens (yet again !!!!) gave a master-class in anti-Irish refereeing in the Leinster match. We are getting the short end of the stick with our officials and with our teams.

13-12-2010 1:47am

mathepac wrote: »

If the officials has penalised Thomas in the first place, Paulie would have finished the match.

This is not true, dissent is also a foul. It would've been a Munster penalty, which then would've been reversed with Paul being sent from the pitch.

The whistle had also been blown before the blow was struck.

Read above regarding the rest of your post.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 2:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you honestly believe that a swinging forearm the size of an average leg hitting you in the jaw wouldn't floor you, and that J.Thomas was milking it, you're insane.

Also, to say that cracking down on cynical penalties vs hot headed and reckless behaviour would be more beneficial to the game, consider that very few people have ever been badly hurt on a rugby pitch because someone obstructed them, or held them down in a ruck. Yes its frustrating, and can get on your nerves and slow you down, but you act like a man and get on with it.

However, people have been hurt by players lashing out, not just in rugby, in soccer and other games. Roy Keane ended someone's career with a moment of hot headedness.

Referees are there to protect the players as much as they are to ensure the game runs smoothly. Punishing reckless foul play should be top of their list.

As I mentioned in the match thread several times, O'Connell's problem was self inflicted, the foul play occurred the second he shifted his body to swing the forearm.

The contact, intent, or lack of either, are both completely irrelevant.

The whistle had been blown, but he lost his composure. He is 100% to blame

Of course it would floor me but I'm not 6ft5 and 17.5 Stone either though and I'm pretty sure that the arm would have sailed over my head

.

If they send out a message that all the "cute whoreness" of holding players off the ball will result in a penalty we will get a quicker game of players showcasing their actual talents. If the refs just started giving out penalties for it, like what happened DOC, we would get a better spectacle.

The lashing out was only bad because of POC's size, if Stringer did the same and hit Thomas in the nuts, we would be in for a fantastic Youtube video rather than a red card. If Paulie hit Thomas in the chest it would have been fine and a fair attempt at freeing himself. POC was stupid but there was nothing less, he doesn't really deserve a ban but 2 weeks would be fair for an act of stupidity.

Contact and Intent are completely relevant, if he had telegraphed a hit woth his elbow and it resulted in the same incident, nobody would be protesting POC's innocence.

Keane didn't end Haland's (spelling) career because of hot-headedness, it was revenge :cool:

mathepac · 13-12-2010 2:08am

mathepac wrote: »

... If the officials has penalised Thomas in the first place, Paulie would have finished the match...

The officials failed to apply the laws properly. That is the failure. Penalise Thomas for illegal play, incident over, no need for dissent, Paulie stays on the field. Review the precise sequence of events. Paulie being fouled away from play was the first incident and the officials seemed to elect not to act on it (two massive men, on their own, wrestling in the middle of a field - it's kinda hard to miss, unless you deliberately choose to ignore it in the first place.)

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 2:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

However, people have been hurt by players lashing out, not just in rugby, in soccer and other games. Roy Keane ended someone's career with a moment of hot headedness.

Urban myth.

thehighground · 13-12-2010 2:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you honestly believe that a swinging forearm the size of an average leg hitting you in the jaw wouldn't floor you, and that J.Thomas was milking it, you're insane.

The ref seemed to think it was his elbow, which from this photo we know it wasn't.

http://sepaphoto.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Munster-v-Ospreys-Heineken-Cup/G00008xRrZ5.ld30/I0000Dp108vR5mTA

It would floor me, but I'm not a 6'5", 18 stone professional rugby player.
From the photo you will see POC got him in the mouth.
From the video, Thomas is clutching his forehead. Thats play acting.

I think POC should have kept his cool and not swung his arm, but Thomas milked that.

Also, to say that cracking down on cynical penalties vs hot headed and reckless behaviour would be more beneficial to the game, consider that very few people have ever been badly hurt on a rugby pitch because someone obstructed them, or held them down in a ruck. Yes its frustrating, and can get on your nerves and slow you down, but you act like a man and get on with it.

Well, maybe if the reffing standards were improved. The Ospreys got a penalty because DOC was holding Philips. The ref surely must have seen how off-side Thomas was and that he was pulling POC. But then again, he thought that POC had hit him with his elbow! Very poor reffing.

However, people have been hurt by players lashing out, not just in rugby, in soccer and other games. Roy Keane ended someone's career with a moment of hot headedness.

I'm no apologist for Roy Keane, but that statement is incorrect. Alf inge haaland was forced to retire because of an injury to his other leg, not the one that Keane got. He also tried to sue Keane and lost his case and didn't get any compensation.

More milking it.

Referees are there to protect the players as much as they are to ensure the game runs smoothly. Punishing reckless foul play should be top of their list.

A good way of sorting it out is to be award penalties for messing and save us all the bother of having to put up with this.

As I mentioned in the match thread several times, O'Connell's problem was self inflicted, the foul play occurred the second he shifted his body to swing the forearm.

The contact, intent, or lack of either, are both completely irrelevant.

The whistle had been blown, but he lost his composure. He is 100% to blame

What's your point? He has been blamed - he got a red card (although the ref seemed to think it was for an elbow).

castie · 13-12-2010 3:31am

On one side if your pulling at people to prevent them continuing with play you got what you deserved to be honest.

On the other you really cant be throwing your arms around without expecting consequences either.

So I think Red was warranted as there was contact to the face whether it was an elbow or not. Also I think the shot to the face was justified too

.

Before anyone claims otherwise I do think that from the photos its still red but what i'm saying is can they change the reason for the red after the fact
He was red carded for an elbow to the face and pictures show that not to be the case. Can the red card be held up since it was for something that didn't happen?

On that point also is he automatically cited for the offence ( elbow to the face ) or does someone look at it before hand and then title the citing? (i.e in this case cite him for general striking )

Assuming its automatic and taken from the refs report. Surely there cannot be a ban handed out since he has clearly not elbowed him in the face.

Discuss.

tolosenc · 13-12-2010 4:52am

Looking at the video, all Berdos saw was a pretty vicious smack to the face. No option but to give a red. I reckon he'll be out until after the New Year's Day match anyway.

murphym7 · 13-12-2010 8:36am

Vey unlike POC - Must have been rusty and unable to handle the frustration better. Building up stamina, strenght etc... is only one part of coming back after so long - remembring how to deal with annoying f**kers on the field is another thing to get used to.

The red will stand - he may well be cited but no more that 2 weeks of a ban will be handed down, Fact is he should not have swung the arm, the photo will help, in that it proves it was not the elbow, it won't help as it also proves he was looking at him when he hit him.

JustinDee · 13-12-2010 9:41am

Some desperate clutching at straws here.

Regardless of what happened, no player is permitted to react as "Paulie" (since everyone here seems to know him) did and he was deservedly carded.
I don't see him escaping a ban.

13-12-2010 9:43am

I'll never win this argument with the people involved vociferously from the other side of it. That does not suggest that I am wrong, but some people will have utmost faith in things even when proof is in front of their face.

Arguing that Thomas is at fault here is similar to the poster who suggested that Healy be cited for pulling down the maul that Hayes got red carded in.

You are looking at the situation from a different angle. Paul o Connell is a professional rugby player, and should act accordingly. No matter what is going on around him.

He threw a reckless swinging arm at an opponent after the whistle had already been blown. this is sinply inexcusable, and a red card. It really is that simple

walshb · 13-12-2010 10:10am

mathepac wrote: »

- it was his hand and wrist that made contact, which is not ro say that a slap from Paulie is a minor thing, but Thomas going down as if he'd been shot was way OTT.
.

Seriously, what clip are you watching. POC is what, 6'6 and almost 19 stone.
He swung his arm/forearm quite vigoursly and connected clean to
the guys face. It was a whopper; the video does not lie, yet you believe the guy milked it?:rolleyes:

Ludo · 13-12-2010 10:16am

As a Munster supporter myself, I know I would have been livid if a Munster player had been on the receiving end of something like that...therefore, he deserved the red...no doubt.

bamboozle · 13-12-2010 10:31am

even if POC had not made contact Berdos would have sent him off such is the contempt Berdos has for POC.
type of incident which happens an awful lot in rugby because of opponents grabbing out of players at rucks and mauls. Watch nathan hines for Leinster and he spends half the game dragging out of players and getting in off the ball niggles. POC was unlucky that firstly the ref saw it and secondly that he made such good contact.

walshb · 13-12-2010 10:33am

Ludo wrote: »

As a Munster supporter myself, I know I would have been livid if a Munster player had been on the receiving end of something like that...therefore, he deserved the red...no doubt.

Exactly it. Had POC taken that to the face I would have been livid. I am all for
supporting your own, believe me, and so many times we do not support our own, (jesus, times when Ireland score tries and you have the likes of Hook and Ward moaning and saying we didn't deserve the try....), but you cannot watch that clip and see anything but a really nasty smack, and a smack that was so not warranted. His ****ing jersey was being held, wow.

I was really suprised to hear Ralph Keyes claiming that the refs decision to red card Paul was disgraceful. I tell you, when we have this sort of lax attitude to these incidents, the game will always have that nasty thuggish element. Defending what Paul did is doing one thing only, hurting the game of rugby.

buck65 · 13-12-2010 11:16am

Red was the only option for this incident. I have seen players escape with a yellow before for similar but the citing commission usually upgrade it to a red. "Paulie" may have frustrated at being pulled back and the fact that there was alot of niggle both on and off the ball were possible reasons that O Connell may have lost the cool. Of course this is no excuse.
O Connell will be more angry with himself than anyone and it is somewhat out of character for the big man but he is a big aggressive guy and the punch did genuinely floor the hapless Thomas. I saw him being led down the tunnel a few minutes later for treatment.
I hope he only gets a few weeks on the sidelines as Ireland and Munster desperately need this guy back as our recent internationals have clearly shown us.
Was there malice involved? Anyone that throws back their arm like O Connell did was clearly trying to hit someone so yes in my book. Just because he didn't look at the guy doesn't exonerate him.
A month at the worst I hope, anything else would be over the top.

buck65 · 13-12-2010 11:21am

bamboozle wrote: »

even if POC had not made contact Berdos would have sent him off such is the contempt Berdos has for POC.
type of incident which happens an awful lot in rugby because of opponents grabbing out of players at rucks and mauls. Watch nathan hines for Leinster and he spends half the game dragging out of players and getting in off the ball niggles. POC was unlucky that firstly the ref saw it and secondly that he made such good contact.

Two things here, regardless of Berdos' feelings for O Connell he made the right call (he missed alot of other things in the game btw). To say he would have done it anyway is crazy. You can't send someone off for not liking them surely?
You are right about O Connell making such contact I think. If he missed completely or hit his shoulder area we wouldn't be having this argument. Due to the guy hanging out of O Connell, I'm sure Paul had a fairly good idea where to aim the arm swing.
Rush of blood, bad move, do the time , move on. Paul is still a colossus of the game and a super guy.

thehighground · 13-12-2010 11:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll never win this argument with the people involved vociferously from the other side of it. That does not suggest that I am wrong, but some people will have utmost faith in things even when proof is in front of their face.

Arguing that Thomas is at fault here is similar to the poster who suggested that Healy be cited for pulling down the maul that Hayes got red carded in.

You are looking at the situation from a different angle. Paul o Connell is a professional rugby player, and should act accordingly. No matter what is going on around him.

He threw a reckless swinging arm at an opponent after the whistle had already been blown. this is sinply inexcusable, and a red card. It really is that simple

I'd argue that its the ref's fault for ignoring all the niggle, offside and other stuff - not Thomas's fault. (As a matter of interest, do you think its ok for someone to pull down a maul and do nothing about it if the ref doesn't seem to be bothered about it?)

I'm certainly not complaining that POC got a red card (which automatically means he misses next game). I do think though that the refs should try and make the effort to ref the games fairly. What is the point of having off-side laws, etc. if they are not going to be enforced fairly.

That ref destroyed that game yesterday - very little contest at the breakdown because every time they did they were pinged. Bear in mind that POC was watching that game from the sidelines and he knew that the ref wasn't interested in sorting the niggle out.

Webbs · 13-12-2010 11:41am

buck65 wrote: »

Red was the only option for this incident. I have seen players escape with a yellow before for similar but the citing commission usually upgrade it to a red. "Paulie" may have frustrated at being pulled back and the fact that there was alot of niggle both on and off the ball were possible reasons that O Connell may have lost the cool. Of course this is no excuse.
O Connell will be more angry with himself than anyone and it is somewhat out of character for the big man but he is a big aggressive guy and the punch did genuinely floor the hapless Thomas. I saw him being led down the tunnel a few minutes later for treatment.
I hope he only gets a few weeks on the sidelines as Ireland and Munster desperately need this guy back as our recent internationals have clearly shown us.
Was there malice involved? Anyone that throws back their arm like O Connell did was clearly trying to hit someone so yes in my book. Just because he didn't look at the guy doesn't exonerate him.
A month at the worst I hope, anything else would be over the top.

Problem for POC is that he was looking at where he was swinging the arm, this could lead to a fairly hefty ban

thehighground · 13-12-2010 11:42am

buck65 wrote: »

I saw him being led down the tunnel a few minutes later for treatment.

Where did Thomas get the stitches do you know? When he fell in the video he is clutching his forehead (not his mouth as one would expect from the photo).

thehighground · 13-12-2010 11:51am

walshb wrote: »

Exactly it. Had POC taken that to the face I would have been livid. I am all for
supporting your own, believe me, and so many times we do not support our own, (jesus, times when Ireland score tries and you have the likes of Hook and Ward moaning and saying we didn't deserve the try....), but you cannot watch that clip and see anything but a really nasty smack, and a smack that was so not warranted. His ****ing jersey was being held, wow.

I was really suprised to hear Ralph Keyes claiming that the refs decision to red card Paul was disgraceful. I tell you, when we have this sort of lax attitude to these incidents, the game will always have that nasty thuggish element. Defending what Paul did is doing one thing only, hurting the game of rugby.

Thomas was also well off-side and the ref was doing nothing about it.

Commentators (like refs) in the heat of the moment may get it wrong as well. Had Keyes seen the replay of the incident?

By the way, Thomas & POC are the same weight and height more or less - so your suggestions that it was akin to Mike Tyson beating up Barry McGuigan are way off.

danthefan · 13-12-2010 11:52am

thehighground wrote: »

Thomas was also well off-side and the ref was doing nothing about it.

Commentators (like refs) in the heat of the moment may get it wrong as well. Had Keyes seen the replay of the incident?

By the way, Thomas & POC are the same weight and height more or less - so your suggestions that it was akin to Mike Tyson beating up Barry McGuigan are way off.

It was David Haye on Audley Harrison then.

LeinsterDub · 13-12-2010 12:29pm

Interesting that many are saying the ref favoured the Scarlets .

PR see it different , http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_6572963,00.html , a touch of the red shades from some here?

thebaz · 13-12-2010 12:33pm

murphym7 wrote: »

Vey unlike POC - Must have been rusty and unable to handle the frustration better. .

I'd say it was very like POC - like the mentioned Roy Keane , he plays with a ferocious intensity, that can burst in to hot headiness - personally i like the raw aggression, and would prefer to play with him than against - but to me he was too eager to make an impact - as long as he is on fire and channelled to lead from the front at World cup i'll be happy

outwest · 13-12-2010 12:54pm

in fairness i dont care about the fat his jersey been pulled. how many time have we seen it done, hell i did a few times, but the simple fact is he swung his arm and made contact, he wont be playing rugby again until the end of jan.

Auvers · 13-12-2010 1:14pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Thomas

"He has just been picked for the Welsh Olympic diving team for his performance at the recent Ospreys Munster match" :pac:

walshb · 13-12-2010 1:22pm

thehighground wrote: »

Thomas was also well off-side and the ref was doing nothing about it.

Commentators (like refs) in the heat of the moment may get it wrong as well. Had Keyes seen the replay of the incident?

By the way, Thomas & POC are the same weight and height more or less - so your suggestions that it was akin to Mike Tyson beating up Barry McGuigan are way off.

I never implied that it was a big man hitting a small man. Thomas's size is irrelevant; the guy was smashed with a forearm that was very heavy, at least what I saw.

Stev_o · 13-12-2010 1:28pm

Players get tugged and shoved constantly in rugby but what POC did was just a moment of insanity (Manic aggression gone wrong).

He is 100% at fault and he knows it hell look at the video ref blows the whistle once to end the advantage and the second time just after O'Connel strikes out. The moment the second whistle go POC has his hands in the air. He knows he was caught red handed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0YW3AYA570

premierstone · 13-12-2010 1:32pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Interesting that many are saying the ref favoured the Scarlets .

PR see it different , http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_6572963,00.html , a touch of the red shades from some here?

Im a munster fan and I would'nt have said he favoured the Ospreys I think he was equally incompetent for both teams and ruined the game as a spectacle tbh, players began to realise he was letting so much off the ball niggle and messing at the breakdown go so took advantage of it, and while there really is no justification for POC's swing it was definitely a knock on effect of our french friends inability to control the game, I mean even the few penalities that he did give for tackling in hte air had to be brought to he's attention by he's touchjudge.

yimrsg · 13-12-2010 1:56pm

Completely off topic but I would pay handsome money for POC to go up against SBW in a ring. Don't think Thomas dived, POC caught him sweet on the chin and dropped him, you can see his legs go all shakey as he goes down.

In all serious the card is deserved. The ref said elbow but it's a clear strike.

calvin_zola · 13-12-2010 1:56pm

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

premierstone · 13-12-2010 2:19pm

calvin_zola wrote: »

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

Yeah your dead right POC is so unprofessional :rolleyes: cop yourself on lad, your were on here all last week spouting how Ospreys were definitely going to beat Munster, you called that fairly right too

bamboozling · 13-12-2010 2:19pm

Was at the match yesterday, near enough to the incident, in the East terrace and immediately saw what happened and thought it was red. It showed a lack of professionalism and was dangerous. O' Connell knew that by swinging his arm in that manner he would cause damage. He probably didn't want Thomas to end up in hospital but POC wanted to lay down a marker that he wasn't going to take any shít. Its a red in my book and anyone who thinks O' Connell didn't mean it or agrees with what that fool McGurk said last night that Thomas deserved an oscar, is lying through their teeth or quite simply delusional.

I'd also like to say that some of the comments from the 'fans' immediately afterwards were disgraceful to say the least. The abuse given to the referee and touch judge was awful. Three men, all in their thirties, beside me yelled abuse at both officials for the rest of the game. One even had the temerity to call the touch judge a 'n*g**r' which prompted plenty of turned heads with looks of disgust after which he quietened down somewhat. This mob mindset seems to have infiltrated rugby to a certain extent and needs rid. I was there with my father and mother and it was my mothers first time at Thomond and I was disgusted as it ruined the occasion for her.

I know this is slightly off topic but do you know what it needs to be said. The announcer even had to come on the mega phone in the first half to demand silence for the kickers. Yesterday was a pathetic display from some Munster fans and it needs to be rid of from our supporters.

13-12-2010 2:20pm

calvin_zola wrote: »

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

Ridiculous thing to say about a guy who's spent so long on the sidelines. Obviously let the blood go to his head. It happens. he'll do his time.

ucd.1985 wrote: »

Filth, hope he gets a smiliar length ban to Gavin Henson.

Its not filthy, its frustration, but its still a red card. He shouldn't face a similar ban. 6weeks is pretty understandable.

Luckycharm · 13-12-2010 2:28pm

It was a straight red- no way Thomas milked it. You see it all the time if POC has punched down trying to break his grip on him - he probally would not have been punished or if he had made a big drama of it (ala Quinlan) has a tendancy to do then THomas would probally have got penalised. Was the original offence any different to say when DOC held down Phillips which he got penalised for?

SARZY · 13-12-2010 3:04pm

Auvers wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Thomas

"He has just been picked for the Welsh Olympic diving team for his performance at the recent Ospreys Munster match" :pac:

Offside and Interfering with play. This is all down to poor refereeing.

The ref said to O'Connell that he made contact with the 'elbow' and if that was true then a red was correct But we know now that the ref was mistaken.

Severity of sentence to be in the 'mid range' and 4-6 weeks likely.

danthefan · 13-12-2010 3:06pm

Stop blaming the ref, it's pathetic. Mike Philips managed to not get himself sent off when DOC was holding him to the ground stopping him from getting to the next ruck.

kensutz · 13-12-2010 3:07pm

The papers are making it look a lot worse with contact from the elbow whereas my photo shows clearly where O'Connell connected with Jonathan Thomas face. It seems they're trying to make it out to be a lot more serious. Now to check more papers for photo usage.

Mighty_Mouse · 13-12-2010 3:09pm

Im a fan but the attitude of Keyes, McGurk & some munster fans on here is nuts.
He cracked thomas rightly in the mouth & throat. The guy wasn't acting.
He deserved red & could be in trouble this week.
Foolish act from a man too wound up on his return.

thomond2006 · 13-12-2010 3:27pm

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

Im a fan but the attitude of Keyes, McGurk & some munster fans on here is nuts.
He cracked thomas rightly in the mouth & throat. The guy wasn't acting.
He deserved red & could be in trouble this week.
Foolish act from a man too wound up on his return.

I'm as much respect for his opinions as I do for Hook's and Keyes is an Irish international.

d'Oracle · 13-12-2010 3:29pm

thehighground wrote: »

I'd argue that its the ref's fault for ignoring all the niggle, offside and other stuff - not Thomas's fault.

Its not though.
Its Pauls fault for twatting a lad who was playing rugby for the other team in the head with his forearm.

I really hope this isn't a symptom of something broader.
It was never OK to hit lads for getting away with infringements.

Paparazzo · 13-12-2010 3:54pm

Ah come on, I can't believe some people are saying it wasn't a red and Thomas dived! Are you for real? There shouldn't even be a debate on this.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 3:55pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not though.
Its Pauls fault for twatting a lad who was playing rugby for the other team in the head with his forearm.

I really hope this isn't a symptom of something broader.
It was never OK to hit lads for getting away with infringements.

POC fully deserved to be sent from the pitch for his stupid actions (whether its red or not, everyone has a different opinion), but those stupid little off the ball incidents should have been stopped long before POC saw the field.

Any ban he does get should be significantly reduced for his previous record; His fight with Cudmore shows (me anyway) that O'Connell is a proper professional regarding stupid incidents. If POC was up to match fitness and was used to playing he would have been used to these little incidents and this would not have happened.

Regardless of the outcome Thomas did deserve a smack in the much for his mess acting

.

I find it pretty amazing that so many non-Munster fans want Ireland's most influencial player messing for a period of time in a WC year

. Its madness tbh. (Notice I said influencial not best, we don't need too many provincial debates raging here :cool:)

LeinsterDub · 13-12-2010 4:00pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Regardless of the outcome Thomas did deserve a smack in the much for his mess acting .

I find it pretty amazing that so many non-Munster fans want Ireland's most influencial player messing for a period of time in a WC year . Its madness tbh. (Notice I said influencial not best, we don't need too many provincial debates raging here :cool:)

No one deserves to take an elbow in the face on the Rugby pitch.

No one want O'Connell missing but you do the crime and you have to do the time

kensutz · 13-12-2010 4:01pm

It wasn't an elbow!

Noffles · 13-12-2010 4:02pm

I find it shocking and predictable to see so many posts stating that he was playing up to that smack in the mouth, it's a right twat in the gob in no uncertain terms and I don't think many players would of stood up for that... and why should they..?

It is a blatant foul and personally I'm pleased that it was a red card and it sends a reminder out that you just can't do that... doesn't matter who it is!

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 4:06pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No one deserves to take an elbow in the face on the Rugby pitch.

No one want O'Connell missing but you do the crime and you have time

Nobody got an elbow on the Rugby pitch.

Any chance you missed the match and only saw Hooke on the Rte highlights

POC's Red Card.++ Mod Warning. Read OP++

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