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The John McNulty / Enda Kenny Saga.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Politician in underhanded stroke shocker.

    FG=FF

    If and when SF ever get into power, they'll be up to the same shiite.

    It's the nature of the beast.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    conorh91 wrote: »
    So? The chairman of IMMA is a well-respected barrister whose chairmanship does not seem to be predicated on any artistic prowess of which I am aware.

    Ah come off it now. McGonigal is a known collector of fine art, and has served on the board for well over a decade. Don't try and compare him to McNultly who has had no connection to the IMMA until the last month. McGonigal has an actual interest in what the IMMA does and was involved before he sat on the board. McNuly only became a member of IMMA once on the board. You can't really compare the two.
    conorh91 wrote: »
    Similarly, I'm not aware of any aspect of McNulty's character which would suggest that McNulty was not adequately competent to serve on its board.

    Are you?

    Ah here! Can you tell me why others applicants for the position were turned down when they had far more relevant experience to the work that IMMA actually does? Keep in mind that McNulty did not even apply for the role.

    Can you explain why he was appointed to the IMMA for any other reason than to pull a stunt for the by-election?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Nodin wrote: »
    But the party isn't a corporation and Enda Kenny is not a CEO.
    I didn't say he is. I made a comparison.

    Political parties are similar to private corporations in that they are private organizations with legal personality, with the ability to hold property, generate income, make internal rules, etc.

    The crucial issue is that they are not public bodies, and they regulate their own internal affairs in accordance with law.
    McGonigal has an actual interest in what the IMMA does
    McNulty said he has an interest in IMMA too. Are you calling him a liar, as well as implying that he doesn't appreciate art?
    Ah here! Can you tell me why others applicants for the position were turned down when they had far more relevant experience to the work that IMMA actually does?
    I'm still curious as to why you think McNulty should be presumed to know nothing about art. Donegal people tend to be very mysterious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    conorh91 wrote: »
    McNulty said he has an interest in IMMA too. Are you calling him a liar, as well as implying that he doesn't appreciate art?

    He didn't demonstrate any interest - He became a member only very recently. Since his appointment he never visited IMMA, never attended any meetings of IMMA, and never contacted any officials at IMMA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Sand wrote: »
    He didn't demonstrate any interest
    Heather Humphreys has said that McNulty had expressed some interest in contributing in a generalized way, he may not have specified IMMA over another institution.
    He became a member only very recently.
    So? Is there some rule which says that board members must be ordinary members of IMMA?
    Since his appointment he never visited IMMA
    This is getting too bizarre. Has there been a band of cranks standing outside IMMA over the past few days, watching to se if McNulty went in? He lives on the other side of the country, I don't see any reason why he should have immediately fled to IMMA (if indeed he hasn't been there this week).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Heather Humphreys has said that McNulty had expressed some interest in contributing in a generalized way, he may not have specified IMMA over another institution.

    So your claim was wrong.
    So?

    So, he didn't have any interest in even joining the IMMA until politically useful.
    Is there some rule which says that board members must be ordinary members of IMMA?

    Probably.
    This is getting too bizarre. Has there been a band of cranks standing outside IMMA over the past few days, watching to se if McNulty went in?

    Probably not, but any visits would be scheduled and recorded.
    He lives on the other side of the country, I don't see any reason why he should have immediately fled to IMMA (if indeed he hasn't been there this week).

    I see a reason - he was appointed to its board. It would seem important to demonstrate some interest in the place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Sand wrote: »
    So your claim was wrong.
    No, i'm not wrong.

    McNulty did indicate in his statement that he is interested in IMMA.

    My previous post referred to his expression of interest in being a member of the Board of IMMA. That's the only interest he didn't explcitly indicate.

    Probably.
    Probably not.

    Probably not, but any visits would be scheduled and recorded.
    Probably not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    conorh91 wrote: »
    No, i'm not wrong.

    Hmm, but a person who was wrong would say that.
    Probably not.

    To clarify, I actually don't know or care if IMMA membership is a requirement to become a IMMA board member.
    Probably not.

    Hmm, no, I'm going to have to stick with probably.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Sand wrote: »

    To clarify, I actually don't know or care if IMMA membership is a requirement to become a IMMA board member.
    sounds to me like you think you're wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    conorh91 wrote: »
    sounds to me like you think you're wrong.

    Wrong about what?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Meanwhile......

    "Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said he takes full responsibility and the blame for the controversy surrounding the nomination of John McNulty for the Seanad.
    Speaking in Roscommon this afternoon, Mr Kenny said what happened was of his own making but would never happen again.
    He said he regretted his decision and Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht Heather Humphreys was not in any way to blame for what had happened."

    however

    "Fine Gael TD Sean Conlan said that Mr Kenny's remarks this evening have made matters worse.
    Speaking on RTÉ's Six One, Mr Conlan said Mr Kenny's comments contradict his version of events outlined yesterday.
    Mr Conlan called on Minister Humphreys to make a statement to explain herself in connection with the issue."
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0926/648153-politics/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    conorh91 wrote: »

    This is getting too bizarre. .

    What's bizzare is that there's people out there that think this is all just a coincidence and that the shop keeper is a closet art collector. With all the other things people like yourself say he's involved in on top of running a shop does he even have time to eat?


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    Wasn't paying much attention to this story because I expect no better, but the resignation from IMMA etc. just makes it worse. I also thought that McNulty might be some kind of backroom boy getting rewarded. But the truth would appear to be a lot more prosaic than that:
    Mr Sheahan suggested that the reason for his nomination was to have a replacement for FG TD for Donegal South West Dinny McGinley, who has announced that he will not run again in the next election.

    Although A ballot of all TDs and Senators takes place between September 26 and October 10, it is understood that Mr McNulty will be elected.

    Mr Sheahan said: “It’s a Fine Gael seat and it will be filled by Fine Gael. Once his name goes forward, it’s a foregone conclusion.”

    see more ...

    This is pathetic, a) Guy can't get elected locally. b) Fine Gael don't have confidence to run him or find a suitable candidate for next general election c) Failed local election candidate 'elected' to Seanad in parody of democracy d) If all had gone to plan his election to Dail would according to a pundit be "a foregone conclusion".

    The players on the pitch may have changed at the last general election but they are playing the same game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    It does pose a real challenge for me: next time out I'm going to have to put some party bottom of the list. Used to be fairly easy with Sinn Fein. Easy winners.

    Then Fianna Fail and the Greens entered the fray to earn last place. Now Fine Gael. The problem is, whoever I put last...one of the above will have to come ahead of them. They all deserve to be last :|


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    What's bizzare is that there's people out there that think this is all just a coincidence and that the shop keeper is a closet art collector.
    I, like most people, don't think the appointment is a coincidence.

    I think it was probably intended to bolster McNulty's campaign against arching eyebrows at the Irish Times.

    Fintan Not everyone agrees that GAA is a cultural pursuit, so you can see how Fintan some people might think those involved in its instruction are borderline illiterate.

    There was a space on IMMA, whose work seems to be an area in which McNulty has an interest. Convenience and hysteria ensued.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    conorh91 wrote: »
    McNulty said he has an interest in IMMA too. Are you calling him a liar, as well as implying that he doesn't appreciate art?

    Not enough of an interest to be a member of IMMA though it seems - until of course he had to be a member to be able to sit on the board.
    conorh91 wrote: »
    I'm still curious as to why you think McNulty should be presumed to know nothing about art. Donegal people tend to be very mysterious.

    I'm curious as to why someone was appointed to a post that despite not even applying for the position. Especially when there were other applicants with some very relevant experience to the role.
    conorh91 wrote: »

    I think it was probably intended to bolster McNulty's campaign against arching eyebrows at the Irish Times.

    Do you not have a problem with that at all??
    conorh91 wrote: »
    There was a space on IMMA, whose work seems to be an area in which McNulty has an interest. Convenience and hysteria ensued.

    Yeah that would be fine if other people with very relevant credentials had not applied, and perhaps it would have been somewhat more acceptable if McNulty had actually put in an application himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Why do you keep bringing the Irish Times into this, they've nothing to do with this farce. Inferiority complex or something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Not enough of an interest to be a member of IMMA though it seems
    I doubt every artist or serious art enthusiast is a member of IMMA. Especially rural people who might only visit a few times a year.
    I'm curious as to why someone was appointed to a post that despite not even applying for the position.
    Because it seems that's how these appointments are structured. There's never been a furore when it happened in the past, with other boards. But of course, maybe IMMA is of crucial public importance.
    Do you not have a problem with that at all??
    Nope. Especially not since his directorship was going to expire in a few weeks. Actually I think it's very clever.
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Why do you keep bringing the Irish Times into this, they've nothing to do with this farce. Inferiority complex or something?
    Inferior to what? I consider the Times an inferior newspaper, except on Mondays. I just thought Fintan O'Toole's reaction was quite funny, that's all.

    I'm sorry I'm probably not taking this as seriously as some of you are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    conorh91 wrote: »

    I'm sorry I'm probably not taking this as seriously as some of you are.

    Members of FG have openly criticised the stroke on national radio and TV, I don't think it's us having the wrong reaction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    conorh91 wrote: »
    I doubt every artist or serious art enthusiast is a member of IMMA. Especially rural people who might only visit a few times a year.

    Because it seems that's how these appointments are structured. There's never been a furore when it happened in the past, with other boards. But of course, maybe IMMA is of crucial public importance.

    Nope. Especially not since his directorship was going to expire in a few weeks. Actually I think it's very clever.

    Inferior to what? I consider the Times an inferior newspaper, except on Mondays. I just thought Fintan O'Toole's reaction was quite funny, that's all.

    I'm sorry I'm probably not taking this as seriously as some of you are.


    Clever like Bed and Breakfast loans, or this.

    Smaller scale than those of course, but surely this kind of stroke can only be considered clever if it you profit from it or at least don't get caught. I suppose FG might keep some of there former FF support because of this.

    Why am I taking this seriously, simply because it shows nothing has changed from the 'system' and culture that bankrupted this country.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Clever like Bed and Breakfast loans, or this.

    You're comparing a revolving door appointment to an art gallery... with a multi million-euro fraud allegation?

    Pfft, try harder.

    Some lad was comparing Enda Kenny to Mussolini earlier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    conorh91 wrote: »
    You're comparing a revolving door appointment to an art gallery with a multi million-euro fraud allegation?

    Pfft, try harder.

    Some lad was comparing Enda Kenny to Mussolini earlier.

    You cleverly neglected to quote it but I did say there was a difference in scale. A stroke that back fires can't be considered clever. The principle is the same what ever the scale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Have to say I'm liking this new Enda Kenny.

    The claim that McNulty has no background in cultural matters has already been disproven. It turns out that McNulty is involved in Irish language education, the GAA, county-level heritage issues, and the Fleadh Ceoil.

    As such, he didn't need the IMMA appointment at all. He was already suitably qualified for the panel.

    if he was otherwise qualified why did he cite a 6 days appointment to the board of IMMA on his Seanad Cultural and Educational panel nomination/qualification form, which said "Businessman; and Board Memner of the Irish Museum of Modern Art

    ByYQAToIMAAD-mG.png:large


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    if he was otherwise qualified why did he cite a 6 days appointment to the board of IMMA on his Seanad Cultural and Educational panel nomination/qualification form, which said "Businessman; and Board Memner of the Irish Museum of Modern Art

    ByYQAToIMAAD-mG.png:large

    Jez, Ireland is a small country, I was taught by one of them and worked with the sister of another.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    conorh91 wrote: »
    Because being a board member of a large gallery is more relevant than being an instructor in a cultural pursuit.

    The point is the latter role nevertheless makes him qualified.

    A bit like the woman whose justification for her candidacy was "teacher"

    If she were on the Board of IMMA, she'd probably have said "on the Board of IMMA"

    a board he had been on for just 6 days, John McNulty said nothing to the High Court Judge there of Clerk of the Seanad about it being only 6 days, I don't think that kind of person is suitable for the Seanad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭Good loser


    'Much Ado about Nothing'.

    As Shakespeare said 'Fodder for Windbags'!

    Get a grip on ye'rselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ^^^^ it amounts to corruption in my book


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    conorh91 wrote: »
    You're comparing a revolving door appointment to an art gallery... with a multi million-euro fraud allegation?

    Pfft, try harder.

    Some lad was comparing Enda Kenny to Mussolini earlier.

    When in a hole.......
    FAMILY members of Taoiseach Enda Kenny were heavily involved in the election campaign for controversial Seanad contender John McNulty, the Irish Independent can reveal.

    Mr McNulty is a family friend of a number of Mr Kenny's relatives living in the Kilcar and Carrick areas of Donegal.

    And members of the Taoiseach's family played a central role in the businessman's election campaign during his failed attempt to secure a council seat earlier this year.

    Mr Kenny said he took full responsibility and the blame for the controversy surrounding the nomination of Mr McNulty for the Seanad. Mr Kenny said he regretted what had happened, which was of his own making but would never happen again.

    "I wouldn't say it was my finest hour and I take responsibility," he said.

    Seeking to take the pressure off Arts Minister Heather Humphreys, Mr Kenny said she was not in any way to blame for what happened.

    But there were still calls from within Fine Gael for answers from Mr Kenny and Ms Humphreys, and for Mr McNulty to withdraw from the contest.

    The Irish Independent has learned that Mr Kenny's aunt Christina Curran and her husband, Francis, were heavily involved in the campaign while other family members also supported and promoted the businessman locally.

    It is understood that Mr Kenny also took an "active interest" in the outcome of Mr McNulty's campaign, which resulted in him securing just over 800 votes on May 23.

    Mr Kenny's first cousin Noel McGinley was named on Mr McNulty's election leaflets in relation to providing lifts to count centres. Francis Curran also attended the count centre in Carrick during the election in support of Mr McNulty's campaign.

    Also involved was Mick Kennedy, a brother-in-law of Francis Curran. He was described as "instrumental" in the McNulty campaign by sources.

    Mr Kennedy was pictured with Mr McNulty at the launch of the businessman's campaign. A first cousin of the Taoiseach, James Patrick McGinley, who is the son of Mr Kenny's uncle Joe McGinley, also attended the event.

    When approached by the Irish Independent, Mr Kennedy refused to comment on the controversy.

    As concern grew about the manner in which Mr McNulty was chosen, relatives of the Taoiseach, including Noel McGinley, took to Facebook wishing Mr McNulty well in his Seanad campaign.

    However, locals in the area have told of their unease at the manner in which Mr McNulty was chosen.

    "People are unhappy about how this was handled. John is a well-liked man here but people don't like how this was done," said one source.

    Ms Humphreys told the Dail earlier this week that Mr McNulty "is involved in the local tourism and cultural committee in Kilcar". However, while Mr McNulty is chairman of the Kilcar Parish Council, he is only listed as being a member of its finance committee.

    Mr Kenny has a large extended family living in the Kilcar and Carrick areas. His mother Eithne was originally from nearby Glencolmcille. A number of her step-siblings and their children have remained in the area.

    Earlier this year, the Taoiseach caught up with some of his family, including aunts Christina Curran, Colette McNeilis and Una Blain, during a visit to Donegal. Mr McNulty, who comes from Kilcar in Co Donegal, is a popular businessman who has managed the town's GAA clubs teams for many years.

    Yesterday Mr Kenny sought to take the pressure off his Seanad candidate.

    "Mr McNulty is an innocent person in this. I wouldn't say it was my finest hour and I take responsibility for this having evolved to what people might imagine it is," he said.

    "My responsibility as leader of the party is to make a nomination for a person that I deem to be suitable and have the qualifications to do a job in the Senate and Mr McNulty is an outstanding candidate in that regard," he added.

    But the Taoiseach continued to come under fire from within his own party.

    Following Fine Gael TD John Deasy's criticism, party backbencher Sean Conlan repeatedly attacked Mr Kenny and Ms Humphreys.

    Mr Conlan said Mr Kenny's latest remarks have made matters worse and contradicted his previous version of events.

    He called on his Cavan- Monaghan constituency colleague, Ms Humphreys, to give an explanation. Mr Conlan also said on RTE's 'Today with Sean O'Rourke' there was a fear within the party that the Taoiseach was returning to the "days of stroke politics" and "the days of Charlie Haughey".

    Mr Kenny said he should have moved "quicker" on party proposals to establish an electoral strategic committee, which will also deal with candidates, conventions and nominations.

    "I'm the first to say I should have followed through on that more quickly," he said.

    Mr Kenny said he was aware of concerns raised at a Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting.

    "Far be it for me to compare myself to the late Charles Haughey.

    "I want everyone to understand that our parliamentary party meetings are about people speaking their minds and this concept of a fear stalking the corridors is not valid and obviously I share the concerns of the people who express these things.

    "They're all members of my own party and I invested a lot of time and effort in getting very many of them elected and I want to see them stay in office and do a job for a very long time to come," he said.

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseachs-family-links-to-candidate-are-revealed-30619801.html

    Nepotism.  Cronyism.  Corruption.  All there.

    This is Endas new way of doing politics?

    Even Bertie would be proud of him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭L'Enfer du Nord


    When in a hole.......



    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseachs-family-links-to-candidate-are-revealed-30619801.html

    Nepotism.  Cronyism.  Corruption.  All there.

    This is Endas new way of doing politics?

    Even Bertie would be proud of him.

    Looks like a motive has been established, I wondered why Kenny would be so helpful to a relatively obscure failed local election candidate. I assumed he was acting on instructions of some election strategist.

    It will be interesting to see if public opinion will stand for the same old way of doing things.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    To be honest for the die hard FG voter this probably won't change who they vote for (we can see that from one of the participants in this thread already) but for people like me who would be a floating voter this is the kind of issue that is a tipping point and will probably compel me to avoid giving Fine Gael any kind of vote in the next election.

    If Fine Gael are serious about contesting the next election then they have to deal with this issue decisively now and remove Kenny and some of the sheep he has surrounded himself with. If they don't then they will face another 2002 in 2016 with the party being decimated. At this moment they are driving a lot of the floating voters into the arms of FF and Sinn Fein and that from my perspective is a very frightening vista indeed. All the pain of the last six years will be wasted because those two parties will piss everything down the drain again.

    Whilst the current government have got us back on the right economic track they have squandered the opportunity to make some real changes to how politics and government are run and delivered in Ireland. Now under the "leadership" of Enda Kenny not only have they emulated the cronyism of Bertie Ahern they appear to be surpassing it.

    Remember conorh91 what you think or how you vote in the next election is not going to decide Fine Gaels fate it's what people like I think and how we vote that will and at the moment all Fine Gael can count on is their core vote and even that will be eroded. Will Fine Gael after the 2016 election be looking at less that 31 seats, there is a distinct possibility that they will.


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