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Water privatization

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    dlouth15 wrote: »
    You mean deficit under 3%. The rule for national debt is 60% and the deficit will need to be a lot below 3% if we want to see a 60% debt/gdp any time soon.

    But it is still an accounting trick. We are closer to meeting the pact rules, but just because the debt is on another balance sheet doesn't mean it isn't our debt.
    Yep sorry I meant budget deficit, not national debt. I also have a question over the costs of investment. Would it be cheaper to borrow as the state or as Irish Water?

    Beyond this, however, I think the state has proven itself not to be interested in investing in our water system. Why? Well, it wasn't a vote getter, our politicians are interested in the next 5 years max and I also think because we didn't pay for water. So yes, bring on some private/semi-state investment, I say.


  • #53
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    So instead of €1.2bn (Euro - it's a proper noun and defined in legislation) on the books, creating a deficit of €7bn this year, you'd increase our deficit to €8bn and watch the Local Authorities piss it away as they have done for the past however many years?

    Smart economic thinking there. :rolleyes:

    Hey Slippy, of all the people who've posted in this thread yours are the least contributory.

    Congratulations.


  • #54
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Karl Stein wrote: »
    Hey Slippy, of all the people who've posted in this thread yours are the least contributory.

    Congratulations.
    No, I'd say barking mad ramblings about increasing the national deficit is fairly non-contributory. Care to point out some other non-contributory posts I've made?

    How many more euros (sic) do you think we can plunge into our wasteful system whilst still meeting our debt reduction target, or did you fail to even consider that when you were pulling €1bn out of thin air?


  • #55
    Naz_st
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭Naz_st


    Soldie wrote: »
    ...Ireland is a relatively low-tax country; the taxes I pay here in Germany are eye-watering by comparison...

    I've always assumed this (that people in Germany / France with "Good" public services, pay for it in higher taxes) but is this actually true anymore though? With marginal rates in Ireland of 52% (or 54% if you are a small business owner :mad: ), kicking in at €32,800 (less than the average industrial wage! ), I think for a certain household income (maybe 80k+) you might end up paying the same or less tax in Germany...


  • #56
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Naz_st wrote: »
    I've always assumed this (that people in Germany / France with "Good" public services, pay for it in higher taxes) but is this actually true anymore though?

    This graph is old..... But I can't find a more recent one.

    I believe the current stat is 36% of GDP (for 2013/14).

    But as you can see, Ireland was for a very long time a low tax country.

    We are now average.

    The-Numbers-Jan-2012-International_1.gif

    If people think we get poor public services for our currently higher taxation, its down to a generation of underinvestment.


  • #57
    Soldie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    Naz_st wrote: »
    I've always assumed this (that people in Germany / France with "Good" public services, pay for it in higher taxes) but is this actually true anymore though? With marginal rates in Ireland of 52% (or 54% if you are a small business owner :mad: ), kicking in at €32,800 (less than the average industrial wage! ), I think for a certain household income (maybe 80k+) you might end up paying the same or less tax in Germany...

    I simplified things a little bit in my previous post. Income tax rates aren't massively higher, but income tax constitutes less than half of what's deducted from your monthly pay cheque. There are also mandatory payments towards health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a pension. On top of that, you've got the church tax (you can opt out, with consequences, but AFAIK most people pay for it). Joe Bloggs sees of €28,149.20 of his €36,000 salary, whereas Max Mustermann, who's on the same wage, sees only €22,426.08. The problem, as I see it, is that the average Irish person expect Germany-level services for Ireland-level prices.


  • #58
    Naz_st
    Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭Naz_st


    Soldie wrote: »
    I simplified things a little bit in my previous post. Income tax rates aren't massively higher, but income tax constitutes less than half of what's deducted from your monthly pay cheque. There are also mandatory payments towards health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a pension. On top of that, you've got the church tax (you can opt out, with consequences, but AFAIK most people pay for it). Joe Bloggs sees of €28,149.20 of his €36,000 salary, whereas Max Mustermann, who's on the same wage, sees only €22,426.08. The problem, as I see it, is that the average Irish person expect Germany-level services for Ireland-level prices.

    Yeah, at the lower end that's true, but higher up the salary scale it seems to go the other way. E.g. using 2 salary calculators (German, Irish) and leaving everything at their defaults, for a married couple with 2 kids, the tipping point seems to be ~82k (i.e. above this you take home more in Germany).

    82k after tax Ireland: €53,769.00
    82k after tax Germany: €53.751,21

    100k after tax Ireland: €62,409.00
    100k after tax Germany: €64.847,21

    Incidentally, if there was an optional church tax here you might might a sudden wave of atheism taking over the country!


  • #59
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Naz_st wrote: »
    I've always assumed this (that people in Germany / France with "Good" public services, pay for it in higher taxes) but is this actually true anymore though? With marginal rates in Ireland of 52% (or 54% if you are a small business owner :mad: ), kicking in at €32,800 (less than the average industrial wage! ), I think for a certain household income (maybe 80k+) you might end up paying the same or less tax in Germany...
    I'm not married, so my GF and I pay single tax rates, I've found chatting/comparing with friends in London and Berlin that once direct and indirect taxes are all taken into consideration, an Irish single taxpayer on anything between €60k-€150k is paying a lot more in Ireland than in London or Berlin.


  • #60
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Naz_st wrote: »
    Yeah, at the lower end that's true, but higher up the salary scale it seems to go the other way. E.g. using 2 salary calculators (German, Irish) and leaving everything at their defaults, for a married couple with 2 kids, the tipping point seems to be ~82k (i.e. above this you take home more in Germany).

    82k after tax Ireland: €53,769.00
    82k after tax Germany: €53.751,21

    100k after tax Ireland: €62,409.00
    100k after tax Germany: €64.847,21

    Incidentally, if there was an optional church tax here you might might a sudden wave of atheism taking over the country!
    Churches should have to pay Corporation Tax IMHO.


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  • #61
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    Naz_st wrote: »
    Yeah, at the lower end that's true, but higher up the salary scale it seems to go the other way. E.g. using 2 salary calculators (German, Irish) and leaving everything at their defaults, for a married couple with 2 kids, the tipping point seems to be ~82k (i.e. above this you take home more in Germany).

    82k after tax Ireland: €53,769.00
    82k after tax Germany: €53.751,21

    100k after tax Ireland: €62,409.00
    100k after tax Germany: €64.847,21

    Incidentally, if there was an optional church tax here you might might a sudden wave of atheism taking over the country!

    A better comparison is €19,200 per year in Germany. Its €13797.24 after all the deductions which are huge eg Health insurance at 8.2%, which still requires some Co-Payment at the pharmacy(which is funny considering some people on medical cards think its a disgrace they have to pay €2.50 an item).

    Where as €19,200 in Ireland is €17,403.00 after all the income taxes. There is huge difference between Ireland and Germany at lower levels of income. Its because Ireland is more progressive with income tax.

    Also Germany has VAT of 7% on Food,which is 0% in Ireland on most food. Although due to the narrower tax base, Ireland has to charge 23% VAT


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