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Which smart heating control for my system?

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  • 31-03-2015 10:33am
    #1
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I have been interested in getting a smart heating control system but I am finding it difficult to understand if the various option suit my setup.

    I live in a 3 storey house. Each floor has a basic room stat in the hallway/landing, making 3 in total.

    My boiler is a glow worm flexicom 30sx and the programmer is a Horstmann Channel Plus H37XL. The heating is split into 2 zones and there is a 3rd zone for hot water.

    My ideal setup would be to use the existing room stats and basically just replace the horstmann.

    From my own research it seems that the Climote is the simplest option as it can control up to 3 zones including hot water and can basically replace the Horstmann. My only issue is that it is a relatively dumb device i.e. it has no min temperature settings or no fancy geo location features. It essentially is the horstmann with a nicer interface and smartphone app.

    Whilst that does suit my needs I am thinking that if I am to spend the money I might as well get the smartest piece of kit I can. I was looking into tado and contacted them about my setup and they said that it was not compatible but I have the feeling that is not the case.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for systems or have any experience installing a tado in a similar setup?

    Thanks


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    #2
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,230 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Have u TRVs on all rads?

    Three hall wall stats, twe rad zones so whats what?

    Whats the actual requirement?
    what does the taro do that the climote doesn't that u need.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #3
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,736 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Deanicus wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have been interested in getting a smart heating control system but I am finding it difficult to understand if the various option suit my setup.

    I live in a 3 storey house. Each floor has a basic room stat in the hallway/landing, making 3 in total.

    My boiler is a glow worm flexicom 30sx and the programmer is a Horstmann Channel Plus H37XL. The heating is split into 2 zones and there is a 3rd zone for hot water.

    My ideal setup would be to use the existing room stats and basically just replace the horstmann.

    From my own research it seems that the Climote is the simplest option as it can control up to 3 zones including hot water and can basically replace the Horstmann. My only issue is that it is a relatively dumb device i.e. it has no min temperature settings or no fancy geo location features. It essentially is the horstmann with a nicer interface and smartphone app.

    Whilst that does suit my needs I am thinking that if I am to spend the money I might as well get the smartest piece of kit I can. I was looking into tado and contacted them about my setup and they said that it was not compatible but I have the feeling that is not the case.

    Does anyone have any recommendations for systems or have any experience installing a tado in a similar setup?

    Thanks
    Have a look at the honeywell evo home system


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    #4
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    Have u TRVs on all rads?

    Three hall wall stats, twe rad zones so whats what?

    Whats the actual requirement?
    what does the taro do that the climote doesn't that u need.

    Sorry should have been more clear

    Yeah have TRVs on all rads

    Zone 1 is bottom and 1st floor
    Zone 2 is top floor

    In regards to the requirements I suppose I am looking for a smarter way of controlling the heating and hot water. I want to be able to control via app but I do also want smarter features where the system can determine whether I am there or uses current weather conditions to determine whether to put the heating on or not

    With Climote it does not have the ability to set a minimum temperature i.e. frost protection. Regardless of the temp it will put the heating on based the schedule I set (albeit the room stats will stop that if needs be). Tado does that but also has geo fencing and weather monitoring. Nest does similar but no hot water control is a deal breaker for me. Nothing worse than wanting a shower and having to wait for the water to heat up!

    Ultimately I want the smartest system I can buy for around the same 300 quid mark that Climote costs. I was very close to getting a climote but the other systems tempted me and I wanted to see if they were compatible


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    #5
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Have a look at the honeywell evo home system

    Yeah I have been but it is hard to determine from their site whether it will work with my setup.

    Should probably just contact them!


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    #6
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Does the Climote have it's own GSM unit to control remotely or does it need to connect to a wifi network? If I remember correctly you pay a yearly subscription to have the remote access or something.


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    #7
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Have you looked at Conrad's system. It is a while ago since I read up on it and have forgotten some of it. I was very impressed at the time.
    Here is a link.
    http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/560896/eQ-3-MAX-Cube-Lan-Gateway?ref=list

    You will need to have a read to see how it all goes together.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #8
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    Effects wrote: »
    Does the Climote have it's own GSM unit to control remotely or does it need to connect to a wifi network? If I remember correctly you pay a yearly subscription to have the remote access or something.

    Yeah I think you pay 36 a year. Whilst not ideal I would be willing to pay it.


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    #9
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    Wearb wrote: »
    Have you looked at Conrad's system. It is a while ago since I read up on it and have forgotten some of it. I was very impressed at the time.
    Here is a link.
    http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/560896/eQ-3-MAX-Cube-Lan-Gateway?ref=list

    You will need to have a read to see how it all goes together.

    Thanks for the link. Looks a bit complex to be honest, I was hoping for a simpler solution.

    I have been doing a bit more reading on tado and I think I can make it work despite what they say. I think perhaps I was a little unclear with them.

    Gonna give them a call and see what they say


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    #10
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    So I called Tado and they confirmed that whilst it will work with my current setup they do not support multiple zones at the moment. The hardware is capable but they are waiting on a software update to activate it. I would then need to buy a 2nd tado (or some other piece of hardware) to control the 2nd zone. They did say that the extra hardware would be discounted. It can work with multi zone setups right now but the other zones would still be controlled by the existing thermostats.

    So for anyone else interested in tado the options/install is as follows

    1. Replace the room stat with the tado. For single room stat properties this is enough. If you have a programmer it would need to be set to always on and the tado will do the rest

    2. If you want tado to control hot water too you will need to buy the extension kit. You install the tado as above and the extension kit is then wired into the programmer. Again it must be set to always on so that the tado and extension kit can control both heating and hot water

    3. For multi zones, when the software update is available, you just replace the other(s) room stats with the extra hardware. One for each zone

    With this in mind I am not sure if tado is for me. It certainly ticks all the boxes and if I had a single zone I would get it right now but having said that, it appears that any multi zone system would cost the same if not more.

    Whilst climote does control multiple zones, as I mentioned in previous posts, it is basically a fancier looking programmer with a smartphone app. I could probably get a more standard programmer with the same functionality for cheaper.

    I am definitely leaning towards tado though as it seems to strike the balance between cost and functionality.


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    #11
    tipperary
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭tipperary


    Hi,you should check out the owl intuition system too. It's a relatively straightforward installation and has no ongoing costs. You can set min temps,varying temp over the day,and boost the temp from a phone app. It records data also which helps to review you heating patterns to see if everything is set up correctly.


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    #12
    Deanicus
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Deanicus


    tipperary wrote: »
    Hi,you should check out the owl intuition system too. It's a relatively straightforward installation and has no ongoing costs. You can set min temps,varying temp over the day,and boost the temp from a phone app. It records data also which helps to review you heating patterns to see if everything is set up correctly.

    Thanks! Yeah I came across this one too. Still have a bit more research to do before I pull the trigger


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    #13
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Can't see how thermostat would be of benefit in hallways but I see it in peoples homes? I also thought there should not be a trv in every room/heated space but especially in a space with a thermostat?
    Are both existing stats to come out?


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    #14
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Because in the olden days when a house had basic central heating with just one stat for the house the hallway was the coolest area and likely unheated. So placing the stat here meant the ambient temperature was set for the whole house but would not be influenced by a heating appliance in any particular room. If you set this to a higher temperature than normal and then installed TRV's on each radiator in each room you can control each rooms temperature up to a point giving a modicum of control and some savings on the bills without major plumbing work. Modern systems will be zoned onto living/working/sleeping areas and each zone is controlled by it's own stat. So using programmable stats you can have 6 settings per day at 6 different times and weekends different again. There are a myriad of different options for holiday times and frost protection or underfloor heating control. Often the plumbing into zones is easy; sometimes not but well worth the investment.
    Having zones and TRV's gives you pretty tight control of each rooms temperature thus saving money.
    If you want to add an outdoor sensor this can be done but it if is cold outside it is colder inside and the stats know this and adjust heating accordingly. Magic!!
    If you want to switch on the heating from Australia via a smart phone app it is possible by spending hundreds of pounds. Why? I have no idea.
    If you come home unexpectedly and the system is in holiday mode so lower settings you can press a button to bring the system back to normal settings and leave your coat on for 15 - 20 minutes by which time the rooms are back up to normal and it cost you zero.
    If you want a smart control system that learns your habits you can buy one but you will be investing in a nice toy with little obvious added benefit that I can see. Installing one of these with a single stat in the hall on a single zone system makes no sense at all.
    If you are starting from scratch there are whole house control systems out there which will control everything remotely and can be controlled/monitored by an app. as they are internet based systems. These start around £4-500. They are modular so you can start with basics of wireless radiator stats, motorised valves and hot water control and build on lighting control, security control, solar power control, absolutely anything you want but you will need a server fee to pay the company which hosts the system. If you are in Australia and want to see what your solar is doing or check the security cameras or switch different lights on at night to deter intruders you can do this. I would spend my money on building a system like this which actually does something useful.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cerastes wrote: »
    Can't see how thermostat would be of benefit in hallways but I see it in peoples homes? I also thought there should not be a trv in every room/heated space but especially in a space with a thermostat?
    Are both existing stats to come out?

    I'd happily have a stat in the hall, works very well on a balanced heating system.


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    #16
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    gary71 wrote: »
    I'd happily have a stat in the hall, works very well on a balanced heating system.

    But you'd be controlling the heating from a space you only pass through? Maybe keeping it warmer than you need? Where the main access to the house may be opened which could cause temp drops and the heating to come on unnecessarily I'd have thought? I've seen stats right beside the front door. Just doesn't seem the best way to do it. Aren't all heating systems meant to be balanced?


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cerastes wrote: »
    But you'd be controlling the heating from a space you only pass through? Maybe keeping it warmer than you need? Where the main access to the house may be opened which could cause temp drops and the heating to come on unnecessarily I'd have thought? I've seen stats right beside the front door. Just doesn't seem the best way to do it. Aren't all heating systems meant to be balanced?

    Like anything if it's done right it works, if not it doesn't.


    Very few heating systems are balanced properly.

    Room stats are often not poisitioned/wired properly and tend to have a negative impact on heating performance.


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    #18
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    gary71 wrote: »
    Like anything if it's done right it works, if not it doesn't.


    Very few heating systems are balanced properly.

    Room stats are often not poisitioned/wired properly and tend to have a negative impact on heating performance.

    Fair enough but a room stat controlling house heating in the hallmover a roomstat position correctly in a main living space seems to be no contest, maybe there isn't much differenceas i think, I'd have thought any opportunity to shut down uneccesary switching on of the boiler shoud be welcomed, especially when its in use most at the times of the year which are coldest, so opening the hall door on a winter evening would seemingly cause the space to cool and the boiler to turn on, whereas in the living room or main occupied space it might not until that space cools.

    That's what I always thought and couldn't understand why stats would be fitted on new builds right beside the door or anywhere in the hall.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cerastes wrote: »
    Fair enough but a room stat controlling house heating in the hallmover a roomstat position correctly in a main living space seems to be no contest, maybe there isn't much differenceas i think, I'd have thought any opportunity to shut down uneccesary switching on of the boiler shoud be welcomed, especially when its in use most at the times of the year which are coldest, so opening the hall door on a winter evening would seemingly cause the space to cool and the boiler to turn on, whereas in the living room or main occupied space it might not until that space cools.

    That's what I always thought and couldn't understand why stats would be fitted on new builds right beside the door or anywhere in the hall.

    Halls were traditionally the place in houses as it was a space less likely to be impacted on by secondary heat sources(as mentioned above), it gave a fixed point(unlike wireless stats people carry around) to allow the home owner to find the temperture that suited them and was fairly accurate as the house would pretty much heat evenly in all rooms due to decent balancing.

    Opening and closing the front door wasn't the problem you think it is as most people adapted to the characteristics of their heating system so respected that the front door needed to be closed quickly and those who didn't understand would soon be hearing a very loud " close that feckin door".

    A well balanced heating system with a correctly positioned roomstat in the hall gives more customer satisfaction than a badly designed heating system with gizmo gadgets that are hard to interact with ie.. Climote with crap room stats.

    The thing I always found funny working in Ireland is ye have some of the most highly trained plumbers in the world but there is no restrictions on who comes into people's homes and plumbs the heating system which is what has led to stats above rads, beside front doors, in front of a window, above a toaster etc....


    I'd say before anybody spends money on a gizmo gadget get a qualified plumber in to advise on what most suits your home and what simple things can be done to improve what you already have.


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    #20
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    gary71 wrote: »
    Halls were traditionally the place in houses as it was a space less likely to be impacted on by secondary heat sources(as mentioned above), it gave a fixed point(unlike wireless stats people carry around) to allow the home owner to find the temperture that suited them and was fairly accurate as the house would pretty much heat evenly in all rooms due to decent balancing.

    Opening and closing the front door wasn't the problem you think it is as most people adapted to the characteristics of their heating system so respected that the front door needed to be closed quickly and those who didn't understand would soon be hearing a very loud " close that feckin door".

    A well balanced heating system with a correctly positioned roomstat in the hall gives more customer satisfaction than a badly designed heating system with gizmo gadgets that are hard to interact with ie.. Climote with crap room stats.

    The thing I always found funny working in Ireland is ye have some of the most highly trained plumbers in the world but there is no restrictions on who comes into people's homes and plumbs the heating system which is what has led to stats above rads, beside front doors, in front of a window, above a toaster etc....


    I'd say before anybody spends money on a gizmo gadget get a qualified plumber in to advise on what most suits your home and what simple things can be done to improve what you already have.
    Regarding positioning of the stats, not a plumber myself but the instructions, which would mostly be available online if they weren't with the product for some reason would sort the positioning requirements of the manufacturer of the stat, which would I believe mostly be pretty similar and I would have thought, obvious. I suppose its not done so either people don't care or the person paying for the job doesn't care or insists its fitted somewhere or doesn't want wires routed in a particular place, not so much an issue with wireless.


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cerastes wrote: »
    Regarding positioning of the stats, not a plumber myself but the instructions, which would mostly be available online if they weren't with the product for some reason would sort the positioning requirements of the manufacturer of the stat, which would I believe mostly be pretty similar and I would have thought, obvious. I suppose its not done so either people don't care or the person paying for the job doesn't care or insists its fitted somewhere or doesn't want wires routed in a particular place, not so much an issue with wireless.

    Room stats are often ignored but have a massive impact on the controlability of a heating system.

    I often see new expensive programmers fitted only to find the stat above a rad, TV etc... or in direct sun light, beside the front door 6 ft up the wall.

    It was common on sites for the trades to knowingly position stats in ridiculous places, but not be able to change it because they'd be working off the plans.

    Again these smart controllers are only as good as the information they receive so I would advise all aspects of the heating controls set up to be checked and not just fit new brains.


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