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Household Charge - Local Council services

  • 04-05-2012 10:20am
    #1
    MajorMax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭


    It occurred to me just now.

    Do people who didn't pay their household charge, have the right to complain about the services, or lack of, provided by their local councils?


Comments

  • #2
    KarmaBaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭KarmaBaby


    MajorMax wrote: »
    It occurred to me just now.

    Do people who didn't pay their household charge, have the right to complain about the services, or lack of, provided by their local councils?

    Are you telling us the the household charge is going towards local services?

    Where on earth did you get that idea?


  • #3
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    KarmaBaby wrote: »
    Are you telling us the the household charge is going towards local services?

    Where on earth did you get that idea?

    Well I imagine since we have a large gap over what we spend and what we take in it would be a given.


  • #4
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    MajorMax wrote: »
    It occurred to me just now.

    Do people who didn't pay their household charge, have the right to complain about the services, or lack of, provided by their local councils?

    Well it's very difficult to say how good or bad services were before the bubble burst, never mind how they are now. But we are not taking in enough money to fund the state so refusing to pay this money can only make things worse.


  • #5
    KarmaBaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭KarmaBaby


    meglome wrote: »
    Well I imagine since we have a large gap over what we spend and what we take in it would be a given.

    I'd like to see the income and expenditure for the budgets of local authorities. I don't believe income from the household charge will be listed as income for those budgets, which were already drastically cut.


  • #6
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    KarmaBaby wrote: »
    I'd like to see the income and expenditure for the budgets of local authorities. I don't believe income from the household charge will be listed as income for those budgets, which were already drastically cut.

    Have you tried the website of your local authority?

    For example - financial statement for DCC 2010


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  • #7
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    KarmaBaby wrote: »
    I'd like to see the income and expenditure for the budgets of local authorities. I don't believe income from the household charge will be listed as income for those budgets, which were already drastically cut.

    Well it might not get listed as all tax has to be collected centrally, it says so in the constitution.

    I'd also draw your attention to these two posts. A bit long but very informative.
    Scofflaw wrote: »
    CSO Regional income figures 2007: http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/economy/2007/regincome_2007.pdf

    These are the comparable 2009 figures (CSO), with CAP from here, GNI contribution based on household income without taxes or transfers:

    County|Pop|Transfers(m)|Taxes(m)|Transfers pp|Taxes pp|CAP(m)|CAP pp|GNI pp|Final Net pp
    Carlow|54255|368|191|6782.79|3520.41|37.78|696.35|206.77|3751.96
    Cavan|68585.68|397|250|5788.38|3645.08|67.06|977.77|212.75|2908.33
    Clare|114922.3|652|488|5673.4|4246.35|84.62|736.32|232.88|1930.49
    Cork|502128.26|2984|2337|5942.7|4654.19|237.63|473.24|251.33|1510.43
    Donegal|157838.27|1056|444|6690.39|2813.01|96.3|610.09|170.67|4316.81
    Dublin|1211506.83|7175|7965|5922.38|6574.46|23.74|19.6|323.44|-955.92
    Galway|241232.03|1493|1032|6189.06|4278.04|151.08|626.29|240.34|2296.98
    Kerry|145875.68|861|511|5902.29|3502.98|109.82|752.84|203.01|2949.13
    Kildare|205969.74|1017|1158|4937.62|5622.19|41.51|201.53|289|-772.04
    Kilkenny|94325.11|513|377|5438.64|3996.81|74.61|790.96|226.34|2006.45
    Laois|72128.96|397|283|5504.03|3923.53|51.02|707.28|223.77|2064.01
    Leitrim|31038.66|200|107|6443.58|3447.31|39.21|1263.22|207.8|4051.69
    Limerick|190673.58|1309|824|6865.14|4321.52|77.98|408.96|235.93|2716.65
    Longford|36954.84|257|131|6954.43|3544.87|33.32|901.66|200.34|4110.88
    Louth|119233.16|777|462|6516.64|3874.76|26.88|225.44|227.13|2640.2
    Mayo|128974.54|818|454|6342.34|3520.07|119.11|923.53|207.75|3538.05
    Meath|180031.48|799|963|4438.11|5349.06|64.92|360.58|279.09|-829.46
    Monaghan|60018.88|352|194|5864.82|3232.32|54.12|901.72|190.84|3343.39
    North-Tipperary|68376.48|424|277|6200.96|4051.1|72.23|1056.35|231.4|2974.82
    Offaly|76204.29|442|267|5800.2|3503.74|49.97|655.73|203.32|2748.87
    Roscommon|61178.29|347|224|5671.95|3661.43|66.38|1085.05|216.22|2879.35
    Sligo|65289.94|407|265|6233.73|4058.82|44.54|682.21|231.19|2625.94
    South-Tipperary|89663.76|555|354|6189.79|3948.08|72.23|805.56|223.35|2823.92
    Waterford|116320.65|774|454|6654.02|3903|55.09|473.62|218.27|3006.36
    Westmeath|85325.95|533|334|6246.63|3914.4|54.06|633.55|219.92|2745.86
    Wexford|141932.52|921|497|6489|3501.66|84.12|592.68|206.48|3373.53
    Wicklow|139510.07|716|724|5132.25|5189.59|38.28|274.41|265.19|-48.12

    So, Donegal people are net recipients from the whole system to the tune of €4,316.81 per capita annually. I should perhaps point out that I don't begrudge this transfer, but I do object very strongly to people at the other end pretending it doesn't happen.

    It's unrealistic to expect somewhere like Donegal to be able to pay its own way in a modern economy - the costs of providing infrastructure and services per person are very much higher than they are in an urban area like Dublin, while for standard geographical reasons it's not going to attract the same mass of businesses as Dublin.

    How about if the counties paid their own way? The following table shows income/capita with taxes and transfers, without, and each in turn as a proportion of Dublin income:

    County|A. Income pp|B. Income w/o tax/transfer|A/Dublin|B/Dublin
    Carlow|23426.41|20164.04|0.76|0.64
    Cavan|22891.08|20747.77|0.74|0.66
    Clare|24138.05|22711|0.78|0.72
    Cork|25798.19|24509.67|0.84|0.78
    Donegal|20521.01|16643.62|0.66|0.53
    Dublin|30890.46|31542.54|1|1
    Galway|25349.04|23438.02|0.82|0.74
    Kerry|22196.98|19797.68|0.72|0.63
    Kildare|27499.19|28183.75|0.89|0.89
    Kilkenny|23514.42|22072.59|0.76|0.7
    Laois|23402.53|21822.03|0.76|0.69
    Leitrim|23261.31|20265.05|0.75|0.64
    Limerick|25551.52|23007.91|0.83|0.73
    Longford|22946.93|19537.36|0.74|0.62
    Louth|24791.76|22149.88|0.8|0.7
    Mayo|23082.07|20259.81|0.75|0.64
    Meath|26306.51|27217.46|0.85|0.86
    Monaghan|21243.32|18610.81|0.69|0.59
    North-Tipperary|24716.1|22566.24|0.8|0.72
    Offaly|22124.74|19828.28|0.72|0.63
    Roscommon|23096.43|21085.91|0.75|0.67
    Sligo|24720.5|22545.59|0.8|0.71
    South-Tipperary|24023.08|21781.38|0.78|0.69
    Waterford|24037|21285.99|0.78|0.67
    Westmeath|23779.4|21447.17|0.77|0.68
    Wexford|23123.66|20136.33|0.75|0.64
    Wicklow|25804.59|25861.93|0.84|0.82

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Scofflaw wrote: »
    It's actually an almost exact match:

    208beyp.gif

    More social transfers per person & less payment of household charge to the right. Linear regression trend line added. That's Donegal at the bottom right.

    amused,
    Scofflaw


  • #8
    MajorMax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 865 ✭✭✭MajorMax


    Wow excellent post!


  • #9
    femur61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    KarmaBaby wrote: »
    Are you telling us the the household charge is going towards local services?

    Where on earth did you get that idea?

    Hogan said the household charge is to go to County Councils, so if that is for services, or their wages who knows.


  • #10
    Condatis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 651 ✭✭✭Condatis


    meglome wrote: »
    Well it might not get listed as all tax has to be collected centrally, it says so in the constitution.

    The Constitution says no such thing.

    People quoting the Constitution should inform themselves before so doing.


  • #11
    KarmaBaby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭KarmaBaby


    femur61 wrote: »
    Hogan said the household charge is to go to County Councils, so if that is for services, or their wages who knows.

    Well if Hogan said it then it must be a lie. The government already cut those budgets drastically; even more than the household charge would bring in if it had 100% compliance.

    The only reason he said that was fear tactics, hinting that local authorities budgets will depend on compliance levels.


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  • #12
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Condatis wrote: »
    The Constitution says no such thing.

    People quoting the Constitution should inform themselves before so doing.

    Hmm I thought I'd actually read that. Can't find where though now. I shall check again.


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