Council Control

Victor · 27-05-2014 8:49am #1

So, no one party controls any council. However, FF are the largest party on most (14), FG on 4, SF on 4, while FF & FG are joint-largest on a further 4. Independents (not including hte smaller parties), if taken as a group are the largest grouping on a further 3.

expectationlost · 30-05-2014 1:28am

bit presumptious

schemingbohemia · 30-05-2014 12:09pm

expectationlost wrote: »

bit presumptious

Facts are presumptious now? I didn't get the memo :rolleyes:

comongethappy · 30-05-2014 12:11pm

expectationlost wrote: »

bit presumptious

Presumptuous of what?

expectationlost · 31-05-2014 2:16am

http://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-split-limerick-council-1493354-May2014/

expectationlost · 01-06-2014 4:56pm

here are the figures https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15dpaRuNhkkiL5ZpdhddYEHwoXfBcwCX0S20pHpFn13o/edit#gid=356893380 yoinked from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_local_elections,_2014

Victor · 01-06-2014 6:36pm

expectationlost wrote: »

here are the figures https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15dpaRuNhkkiL5ZpdhddYEHwoXfBcwCX0S20pHpFn13o/edit#gid=356893380 yoinked from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_local_elections,_2014

Other than the Limerick split, the incomplete election in Monaghan and the niceties of the definition of 'Independent', what differences are there between my map and the tables on Wikipedia?

expectationlost · 02-06-2014 5:13pm

Victor wrote: »

Other than the Limerick split, the incomplete election in Monaghan and the niceties of the definition of 'Independent', what differences are there between my map and the tables on Wikipedia?

people can look at the raw numbers for themselves

comongethappy · 02-06-2014 6:47pm

expectationlost wrote: »

people can look at the raw numbers for themselves

What does that even mean?

redron74 · 02-06-2014 7:21pm

expectationlost wrote: »

people can look at the raw numbers for themselves

The figures you link to are incomplete.
The map that was included in the opening post seems to be accurate.

expectationlost · 03-06-2014 5:11pm

redron74 wrote: »

The figures you link to are incomplete.
The map that was included in the opening post seems to be accurate.

in what way are they incomplete, the map itself says its incomplete

redron74 · 03-06-2014 8:09pm

expectationlost wrote: »

in what way are they incomplete, the map itself says its incomplete

The map is incomplete as the election in one of the areas in Monaghan has been postponed due to the death of a candidate. Also, if you think logically about it, the map may have been drawn up before all the seats were filled, but the results of outstanding counts would not make any difference to the information being presented, i.e. the largest party in each council.

The figures you link to do not contain all the information on the election from all the other electoral areas around the country, where counting has completed. For example, your table is missing four seats in Limerick.

expectationlost · 04-06-2014 8:43pm

redron74 wrote: »

The map is incomplete as the election in one of the areas in Monaghan has been postponed due to the death of a candidate. Also, if you think logically about it, the map may have been drawn up before all the seats were filled, but the results of outstanding counts would not make any difference to the information being presented, i.e. the largest party in each council.

The figures you link to do not contain all the information on the election from all the other electoral areas around the country, where counting has completed. For example, your table is missing four seats in Limerick.

ok fixed that, if only we could find an accurate listing of the number councillors for each party for each council

expectationlost · 07-06-2014 7:53pm

going to try and list mayor deputy support control https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15dpaRuNhkkiL5ZpdhddYEHwoXfBcwCX0S20pHpFn13o/edit#gid=1974529411 difficult possibly fruitless task, to try list mayor and deputy positions for the next 5 years and which independents support it

not sure what going on in cork Cork city council opts for ‘inclusive’ d’Hondt system http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cork-city-council-opts-for-inclusive-d-hondt-system-1.1822346 but http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-city-council-mayoral-election--live-updates-271257.html Sinn Féin in Cork have called for a deferral of tonight’s mayoral election and asked all concerned for a "weekend of reflection".

expectationlost · 07-06-2014 8:26pm

also note all the various positions the need to be filled in fingal for example http://www.fingalcoco.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/136937

1 Election of Mayor/Deputy Mayor

1 a) Election of Mayor

1 b) Election of Deputy Mayor

2 Election of Chairpersons of the following Strategic Policy Committees

2 a) Arts, Culture and Heritage Strategic Policy Committee

2 b) Transportation, Planning & Strategic Infrastructure Policy Committee

2 c) Economic Development and Enterprise Strategic Policy Committee

2 d) Housing and Community Development Strategic Policy Committee

2 e) Water and Environmental Services Strategic Policy Committee

3 Appointment of members to various statutory bodies, committees etc.

3 a) ARC - Airport Regions Conference (1 member)

3 b) Association of Irish Local Government (5 members)

3 c) Audit Committee 3 members

3 d) Balleally Liaison Committee (4 members)

3 e) Blanchardstown Community Policing Forum (2)

3 f) County Heritage Forum (5 members)

3 g) Drinan Enterprise Centre Limited (2 members)

3 h) Dublin and Dun Laoghaire Education and Training Board (5 Members)

3 i) Edge Cities (1 member)

3 j) Fingal Local Community Development Committee (LCDC).(3 members)

3 k) Fingal Tourism (2 Members: Mayor and 1 member)

3 l) Governing Authority of DCU (1 member)

3 m) Irish Public Bodies Mutual Insurances Limited (1)

3 n) Joint Fingal and South Dublin Liffey Valley Management Advisory Committee (Mayor and members of Cas/Mul.).

3 o) Joint Policing Committee (Mayor and 15 Members)

3 p) Local Authority Members Association (1 member)

3 q) Local Traveller Accommodation Consultative Committee (3 Members)

3 r) Malahide Castle and Gardens (1 member)

3 s) Monitoring Board for Interreg IVc Project (1 member)

3 t) North Fringe Area Forum (4 members)

3 u) Regional Health Forum Dublin and North East(6 members)

3 v) Southern and Eastern Regional Assembly (3 members)

expectationlost · 07-06-2014 8:35pm

FG and FF abandon civil war politics to control mayoral jobs - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fg-and-ff-abandon-civil-war-politics-to-control-mayoral-jobs-30335973.html#sthash.2rPTSG9r.dpuf Independet has a number of them

expectationlost · 08-06-2014 3:31pm

have the info for these

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15dpaRuNhkkiL5ZpdhddYEHwoXfBcwCX0S20pHpFn13o/edit#gid=1974529411
need it for these

Cork City
Galway City
Kilkenny
Laois
Leitrim
Longford
Meath
Monaghan
Waterford
Westmeath
Wexford
Wicklow

expectationlost · 12-06-2014 7:05pm

Four independent councillors withdraw support for Dublin City Alliance http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0611/623138-dublin-council/ still leaves the alliance with 4 majority

a lull in activity when are the others having their meetings?

expectationlost · 17-06-2014 2:31am

Tipperary http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/smiths-son-finds-himself-in-hot-water-over-lowry-vote-30353773.html oh theres municipal district chairs aswell

Fred Swanson · 18-06-2014 2:20am

This post has been deleted.

Victor · 18-06-2014 8:24pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Local Government Reform Act 2014, Part 3, Chapter 1.

Fred Swanson · 18-06-2014 8:33pm

This post has been deleted.

expectationlost · 23-06-2014 8:16pm

Which parties/groupings control the City and County Councils? http://adriankavanaghelections.org/2014/06/23/which-partiesgroupings-control-the-city-and-county-councils/ by adrian kavanagh

expectationlost · 23-06-2014 8:53pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

to give john mcguinness' son a job http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/history-made-as-mcguinness-elected-mayor-1-6124193 now that he's finished working for his dad

expectationlost · 23-06-2014 8:56pm

finding it difficult to find the rest of the mayors/news reports about new mayors/deputys, what happened in cork

DazMarz · 09-07-2014 3:41am

In Wicklow, the picture is now much clearer.

The seat breakdown in Wicklow County Council is:

Independents 10 seats
Fine Gael 8 seats
Fianna Fáil 7 seats
Sinn Féin 6 seats
Green Party 1 seat

Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael pulled together and formed a voting block. Sinn Féin and the Green Party aligned themselves together.

The Independents were split into 2 technical groups. One group offered support to the Sinn Féin/Green Party alliance. The other group offered support to FG/FF. While 1 or 2 independents struck out on their own and supported nobody. This resulted in a lot of controversy.

However, the position of Chairman is now held by an Independent. The chair positions of the various SPC's were distributed equitably amongst the political parties. It was done in a very fair, democratic manner. Had FG/FF so wished ,with the support of a technical group, they held all the cards and could have totally controlled the council if they so wished; they did not.

Several internet outlets and some of the SF/GP/Ind councillors are going ballistic at the moment. However, I think they are losing it because they were on the losing side of things when the chips fell. All positions were voted for openly and majority ruled.

I am unsure as to how a majority decision could be considered "giving two fingers to the electorate" (to quote one councillor), or how having a minority grouping (if you consider the independents and SF to be one and the same - they are not) on the council could in any way be considered a mandate.

It was also a very solid fact that a good number of the independent councillors on Wicklow Co Co would not agree with Sinn Féin at all. This meant that they would never support a Sinn Féin led council. I find it somewhat disgusting that councillors are being lambasted for simply disagreeing with the policies and ideals of Sinn Féin. Some independents will be naturally more left-leaning, some will be more right-leaning, while some will be very centrist. The centre, centre-right councillors were almost assuredly never going to offer support to Sinn Féin. "Liars", "traitors" and so on are all accusations I've seen flung at the councillors who either supported nobody or who decided to enter a technical grouping that offered support to FG/FF. Lied to whom, exactly? Betrayed whom? They have not joined a party. They are still independents. Just because they were not as left-leaning as you'd like, does not mean that they betrayed or lied to anyone. Maybe you should have asked them those questions before the election instead of bitching about it now?

Under PR, it is very rare for any one party to have an overall majority, particularly on a county council. This being true, negotiation is one of the most important skills a representative needs to have. The fact that SF and the independents could not build an alternative majority in advance of the AGM is an indication that they might not be up to the job of delivering for the people they represent or that the "mandate" for change was not as strong as they would have liked (a bit of both IMHO).

The percentage of first preference votes was not reflected in the percentage of seats; FF/FG may only have gotten 35% of the votes, but they got nearly 49% of the seats. This is why they were so stable; they had the seats to do it.

You may disagree that this is how it should work, but this is how politics does work.

Council Control

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