Irish Craft Beer Consumer Group

guildofevil · 16-10-2006 3:51pm #1

Hi All,
An idea has been kicking around in my head for a while and I was wondering what people might think.

CAMRA is one of the most successful consumer pressure groups ever and has a huge amount to preserve cask conditioned ales in Britain. I contacted them a while back, to find out if there is an Irish chapter, or if it would be possible to set one up. They told me that they were a UK organization and do not have anything to do with foreign countries, but if I were to set-up an Irish organization myself, they would be happy to talk to us, giving advice, etc.

Fair enough I thought.

Then I started thinking about CAMRA and how they have an emphasis on cask conditioned ale, which doesn't fit the Irish market anyway, as most people have never even tasted cask conditioned ale here.

What we need is a group with a focus on Irish made craft beer, in whatever form, as opposed to cask beer, which (as much as I like it myself) I doubt will ever be very popular here.

The aim of this organization would be to encourage the Irish public to drink Irish made beer and to publicize which breweries are Irish owned and which are not.

It would also aim to encourage Irish publicans and off-licence owners to stock Irish made beers.

I think setting up a website dedicated to Irish craft beer would be the first step.

Any comments? Anyone want to help?

beardybrewer · 16-10-2006 8:12pm

That's a pretty lofty task. Is it really feasible given the limited Irish brews out there. If, and one day I hope this happens, Ireland experiences a micro-brew explosion then certainly we'd need an organization to help push their beers out to the country. There is a good Sierra Nevada clone being made in Galway called Hooker. They are available in several pubs in the Claddah and I hope they do well enough to one day try other styles. I could certainly imagine there are pubs elsewhere which would be happy to try alternative beers but I think there needs to be more microbrews to acheive a critical mass to make it happen.

bigears · 16-10-2006 9:20pm

I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve. I'll be in Cork for the Oct. Bank Holiday and I was planning on hitting the Franciscan Well brewpub. I have heard there are several other pubs that stock their beer but I don't know which ones. I think a website which does something like list pubs which carry Irish brews would be win/win for breweries, pubs and consumers alike.

Maybe the critical mass doesn't exist yet for a CAMRA style organisation but you could start small and build from there...

noby · 17-10-2006 8:53am

I think it's a good idea, in theory, and would lend my support to any such group.
The Mission Statement of such a group would want to be carefully worded, to get the right focus. CAMRA, as you say isn't suited to this country, but there are lots of CAMRA spin offs in other countries, like Holland for instance, and maybe these models would be more suited to here. (I say that, but I can't find a link now).

Defenitley the place to start is a website promoting the outlets that serve Irish microbrews.

Hendrixcat · 17-10-2006 9:12am

It's a great idea and badly needed in Ireland, though I am skeptical of how effective it would be. Ireland is a small place with a small population and it seems to me that a far more diverse collection of tastes is required to make it work. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that population is key because the sort of brews we like to drink and perhaps promote are a niche desire and a huge population is required to make the niche group large enough to matter. Every time I'm in the USA or England I'm taken aback by the selection of micro brewed beer and also larger scale top quality beer. I just can't see it working here at the moment. The government don't help by taxing the hell out of alcohol production. English ales here are revoltingly expensive. It actually cost me less to but some Sam Smith Oat stout and IPA in Newport, Rhode Island than here in Dublin. Madness.

guildofevil · 17-10-2006 10:13am

I am not proposing trying to start a pressure group like CAMRA, straight away.

I am talking about a starting with a website dedicated to promoting Irish craft beer and taking it from there.

My idea is almost exactly what Bigears suggests. Contact the breweries and get a list of pubs that sell their beers. Put all this on a website, along with any news and events we may come across and see what happens.

In Ireland we are in the ridiculous position of having to choose our pubs with care if we want to drink beer brewer by an Irish company. Ultimately I want to see at least one Irish beer available in every pub, but I will settle for promoting those pubs that do stock Irish beer and hope others will cop on.

Irish drinkers tastes are changing, but it is foreign breweries which are benefiting. How many pubs have new taps on the bar these days? Weiss beer, pils, wit beer, are all making an appearance, while the cooler is sporting a selection of imported bottles. Don't get me wrong, I think that is great and I love many of these beers, but where are the Irish beers?

Irish owned breweries produce beers to suit most tastes. All I want is for Irish owned breweries to get a fair chance at selling to the public. They can't do that if their beers aren't in the pubs.

noby · 17-10-2006 10:25am

...having to choose our pubs with care if we want to drink beer brewer by an Irish company

I understand what you're saying, but you'll be banging your head against a brick wall trying to convince people that Guinness, Murphy's and Beamish are not Irish. With any group/website, the focus would have to be on 'Irish Craft beers'.

As I told you a couple of weeks ago, Séan, a local, but well-known, restaurant here only stocks Carlow beers, as it's the nearest thing to a local beer. This kind of practise should be highlighted and applauded.

bigears · 17-10-2006 10:47am

I think it's a good idea, in theory, and would lend my support to any such group.

As would I - I neglected to mention that in my response. I would have to presume the breweries would be more than willing to cooperate.

RDM_83 · 17-10-2006 11:07am

bigears wrote:

II was planning on hitting the Franciscan Well brewpub. I have heard there are several other pubs that stock their beer but I don't know which ones....

I think The Gingerman pub in dublin stocks three of their beers, its on Fenian street which is behind Trinity college-there's a hell of a hangover of their red ale who ever makes it but it is cheap (2.80/3 euro a pint)

bigears · 17-10-2006 11:23am

RDM, it's their beer alright. Shouldn't be too much of a hangover from it as it's not chock full of chemicals. Still, if you drink enough the alcohol will get you regardless. Funnily enough the Gingerman don't stock FW's best beer which is the hoppy Purgatory Pale Ale.

guildofevil · 17-10-2006 12:09pm

I like their stout too.

Mind you, I had the cask conditioned version of it a couple of years back and it was SO much nicer.

noby · 17-10-2006 1:05pm

I hoped to get to the Franciscan Well for the bank holiday saturday, but it's not looking likely at the moment.
It's been so long I can't recall their pale ale. I'm well over-due a visit.

freedgull · 17-10-2006 1:35pm

I am totally behind an info website. I have a little bit of web design work on the old C.V. if anyone needs a hand...

Was actually thinking of emailing Dunnes Customer Service the other day. Having seen the carlow beers in Tesco, I assumed Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt would have some Good Irish and maybe English craft beers but they had nothing but the usual suspects...

That said - I'm no angel in I've never been Mssr Maguires - What are the beers like. Somehow missed the fact that it was a brewpub until I read the recent New York Times article...

noby · 17-10-2006 1:55pm

Some interesting reading:
I thought there was an english version of the PINT website.

EBCU
PINT
POS

I'm assuming this is the kind of thing we are talking about here?

guildofevil · 17-10-2006 4:51pm

Noby: Yeah, that sort of thing. Just a website to begin with but you never know where it might lead.

Freedgull: I just might take you up on that offer. I have just bought the domain irishcraftbeer.com and will be setting it up shortly. I am in IT myself and can do most of the set-up stuff, but my web design skills run to a rusty bit of basic HTML, so someone with a clue how to do up a site that doesn't make people want to throw up would be good.

noby · 18-10-2006 12:34pm

I have just bought the domain irishcraftbeer.com

You're not one to hang about, are you?

Let me know if you need a hand gathering info, although I presume a mail to each brewery will do a lot of the work. My web design skills are pretty non-existant (although my sister does it), but I'd like to help, just not sure how.

Ceddy · 30-10-2006 3:11pm

guildofevil wrote:

What we need is a group with a focus on Irish made craft beer, in whatever form, as opposed to cask beer, which (as much as I like it myself) I doubt will ever be very popular here.

Excellent idea guildofevil, I hope that this really takes off. You have my support on this and would like to become a member when the Group is up and running.

Ceddy · 30-10-2006 3:31pm

There is a Camra branch in Northern Ireland :

http://www.camrani.org.uk/

you will also find details of the up and coming Belfast Beer festival on the 16-18 Nov in Ulster Hall Belfast

kenmc · 05-11-2006 11:18am

Super Idea, and will be glad to be able to help in any way I can. Once I get back to Ireland that is. I noticed that Craft Beers are big in NZ, with the Craft Breweries being pointed to by Tourist Info signposts etc. Might be something worth looking at also, getting the breweries to do tours if they don't already, and getting the AA whatever to signpost them. Just a thought - seems to work well in NZ
K

dereko1969 · 18-12-2006 4:35pm

guildofevil - would be very interested in this. one thing that would definitely help as a start would be to get some of the hilden and whitewater brewery cask ales from northern ireland into some pubs down here and it would be great to see pubs in dublin serving the galway hooker, biddy early and franciscan well beers. that was one of the disappointing things about the dublin brewing company closing down - they got their beers into a number of pubs such as the cobblestones and dice bar. it's disappointing that the porterhouse don't seem to stock the carlow beers a collegiate approach from all the brewers would help.

guildofevil · 18-12-2006 5:15pm

I love cask conditioned ales, but most Irish people think of them as a strange English tradition of drinking flat warm beer.

They are also a lot of trouble for the publican. You need a proper cellar and you need to know how to deal with casks, which is a skill in itself. Most publicans in Ireland wouldn't know a soft spile if you stuck it in their eye.

Also remember that, even in optimal conditions, a cask will go off after about two weeks on the pump, so you would want to be sure of selling it quickly enough that you don't end up loosing money.

I heard a rumour (unconfirmed) that Messrs. Maguires brew cask conditioned ale, which they export to the UK for sale on the guest pump market, but they don't have a hand pump in their own pub.

I'm not sure why the porterhouse don't sell Carlow beers.

Yes, they are in competition and there is more profit in selling their own beers than someone else's, which is why both the Porterhouse and the Franciscan Well only have their own beers on tap, in their own pubs, but they both have a selection of premium priced bottles, which the Carlow brewing company beers could sit among.

I have started a website, as a first step, if you are interested. www.irishcraftbeer.com

It's still very much in it's infancy, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

oblivious · 18-12-2006 5:40pm

The porterhouse did an Irish stout festival a good number of years ago, it was great to taste all the different craft stout in Ireland and I think there could have been up to eight of then. I am not sure if they still do it, but it would give people an opportunity to taste Irish craft beer.

bigears · 19-12-2006 11:09am

Franciscan Well have an Irish Beer Festival every Easter where they carry a range of Irish craft beers.

dereko1969 · 10-01-2007 1:05pm

just noticed the winter ales festival is on in manchester next week
http://www.winterales.uku.co.uk/ and lo and behold in the irish beers on draught they have messers maguire cardens wild ale and plain stout, i'd never heard of the first one and didn't think they were serving any of their beers through the hand pump anymore, hopefully they'll reconsider and let us try these beers here they way they're intended to be drunk! i haven't been in there in a while so maybe they've reopened the hand pump upstairs.

Ambrewco · 10-01-2007 5:25pm

I believe there is a groupalready in place called The Brewers and Malsters Guild of Ireland which promotes and lobbys for Craft Beer in this country

guildofevil · 10-01-2007 6:53pm

The Brewers and Maltsters Guild of Ireland is an industry body, not a consumer group.

jancav · 15-01-2007 7:18pm

would love to see your ideas come to fruition - it is impossible to get decent beer in pubs outside of Dublin, and when I am in Dublin I will be heading straight for the Ginger Man!

happy_acid_face · 16-01-2007 4:27pm

I aplaud your enthusiasm! This is a truely great idea. I'm with you if you need any info or help with web construction!

Saruman · 07-05-2015 12:04pm

guildofevil wrote: »

Hi All,
An idea has been kicking around in my head for a while and I was wondering what people might think.

CAMRA is one of the most successful consumer pressure groups ever and has a huge amount to preserve cask conditioned ales in Britain. I contacted them a while back, to find out if there is an Irish chapter, or if it would be possible to set one up. They told me that they were a UK organization and do not have anything to do with foreign countries, but if I were to set-up an Irish organization myself, they would be happy to talk to us, giving advice, etc.

Fair enough I thought.

Then I started thinking about CAMRA and how they have an emphasis on cask conditioned ale, which doesn't fit the Irish market anyway, as most people have never even tasted cask conditioned ale here.

What we need is a group with a focus on Irish made craft beer, in whatever form, as opposed to cask beer, which (as much as I like it myself) I doubt will ever be very popular here.

The aim of this organization would be to encourage the Irish public to drink Irish made beer and to publicize which breweries are Irish owned and which are not.

It would also aim to encourage Irish publicans and off-licence owners to stock Irish made beers.

I think setting up a website dedicated to Irish craft beer would be the first step.

Any comments? Anyone want to help?

Wow, I just stumbled across this 9 year old thread on google. Who would have thought that 4 years later, we saw our version of CAMRA emerge (at their behest) and 9 years later, we have 63ish breweries on the island and about a thousand pubs serving Irish craft beer?

And Ireland, through Beoir, is represented in Europe along with over 200,000 other members across 13 countries as part of the European Beer Consumers' Union! A union that celebrates its 25th birthday this year.

How things have changed in the last decade.

schemingbohemia · 07-05-2015 1:13pm

Funny to see my old username there!

oblivious · 07-05-2015 1:27pm

Its turns out that Irish craft beer is not a fad

:P

BeerNut · 07-05-2015 1:58pm

noby wrote: »

I'd like to help, just not sure how.

Any ideas yet?

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 2:00pm

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L1011 · 07-05-2015 3:05pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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That hasn't happened anywhere.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 3:12pm

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munchkin_utd · 07-05-2015 3:17pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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Do I understand this right?

You are saying that there'd be a problem if craft beers displaced the likes of irish brewed Budweiser (or fake versions of other foreign brands) in pubs ?

And that the popularity of these brands, which is all they are as their prime attraction is their heavily advertised image rather than taste, is something to be cherished and protected?

Anyhow, when craft breweries persist in pushing overly hoppy and bitter brews, sold at a very high price point, craft beers will not take over the world.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 3:22pm

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irish_goat · 07-05-2015 3:35pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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It's not about "brands", it's about "blands". :P

L1011 · 07-05-2015 3:37pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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In countries that never turned over their entire estate of beers to foreign macro producers (and hence never had the equivalent Diageo/Heineken/former Scottish & Newcastle hegemony we had), it hasn't happened.

You will continue to be able to get poor quality near-frozen adjunct lagers for the forseeable future if you want; as well as lagers ranging from poor to good made by other breweries - domestic, foreign, micro, macro.

oblivious · 07-05-2015 3:51pm

Patww79 wrote: »

Of course it would be a problem because I, like a good few others, actually prefer to drink a Budweiser than the craft type stuff. I don't want either gone, I just hope the choice remains.

Just because the craft brigade see the 'brands' as tasteless, it doesn't automatically make it gospel that everyone doesn't like to drink them.

Its less the 5% of the market. There is a long long road till there is eveb parity with Bud and the other.

But a choice for all consumers, is what we should strive for

oblivious · 07-05-2015 3:56pm

noby wrote: »

I'd like to help, just not sure how.

More Seaweed Saison would be a start

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 5:34pm

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Saruman · 07-05-2015 7:50pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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The infamous brewer, Garrett Oliver said this a few years ago: "As long as one person in the world enjoys a specific beer, then that beer is a good beer"
Well, at least to that person or persons.

There's nothing wrong with macro beer, in fact it should be praised for consistency.
Craft versus macro is a little like comparing McDonalds or any other large fast food chain to an independently run fancy restaurant.
There's nothing wrong with the fast food, it's often delicious even. The ingredients are cheap, the food is cheap and it's made for the lowest common denominator but gives people the comfort of knowing no matter where they are in the world, the food they order will be the same as they are used to.

The small restaurant on the other hand uses expensive ingredients, has to charge more and you just hope you are happy with your purchase when it arrives.

Stop bashing the beer. Sure, bash the companies for shady business practices perhaps but the beer itself is fine. Millions drink it quite happily. I know what I will drink and will not, I don't need to evangelise to others and tell them they are going to hell for drinking that.
I'm happy to suggest people try something local or independent and leave them to discover the joys of a full flavoured, expensive to brew beer brewed by a small and independent brewery.

There's also plenty of stunning macro beer out there. Pilsner Urquell for instance is SabMiller these days and there are few micro brewed lagers that can come close.

L1011 · 07-05-2015 8:16pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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I drink macro products all the time - I just feel that Budweiser specifically is an incredibly poor quality product. Its frozen, tasteless rice water trading off a stolen brand name.

If you like lager there are far, far, far better lagers out there from every class of brewery. It, however, as an adjunct lager is just terrible.

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 9:11pm

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L1011 · 07-05-2015 9:12pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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Each to their own I guess

OldMrBrennan83 · 07-05-2015 9:15pm

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noby · 07-05-2015 9:25pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Any ideas yet?

Can't rush these things. Ask me again in another eight years.

BeerNut · 08-05-2015 9:16am

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are aware that this phenomenally rapid growth has brought craft beer from 0% to 1% of the market, right? There's a lot more rapid growth on the way, but it has not and will not have a negative effect on anyone's beer choice. Unless you can think of an example?

Saruman · 08-05-2015 10:25am

It hasn't only increased choice in terms of craft beer, it has also increased choice among macro beer as they have responded with new products.

That's one of the reasons that craft beer was so fast growing in Ireland, the complete lack of choice. Every pub sold the same usual suspects whether a small local in Kerry or a superpub in Dublin, the same lack of choice existed.

How things have changed.

shmeee · 19-05-2015 11:53pm

Hello, not sure if this is the right place but I want some opinions on Craft Beers which should be stocked in an Off Licence?

Trying to expand the craft beer section and more room has become available.

What brands would ye recommend?

At the moment we have the likes have Bru, McGargle's, O'Hara's, Galway Bay and one or 2 more bits. We are underperforming in this market and I want to get it going again.

Again any product we stock would have to have a barcode on the bottle also.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Irish Craft Beer Consumer Group

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