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Foynes Line

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    #32
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Poxyshamrock wrote: »
    They've taken away the railway gates at Childers Road in the last few weeks.
    guess the lifting train or whatever its called these days is on its way, shame, dam the relevant act allowing CIE to do whatever it likes with the peoples railway

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #33
    metrovick001
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭metrovick001


    Maybe they took down the gates to repair them in anticipation of the line reopening.


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    #34
    Wise Old Elf
    Moderators Posts: 3,554 ✭✭✭Wise Old Elf


    metrovick001 wrote: »
    Maybe they took down the gates to repair them in anticipation of the line reopening.

    Not so sure, they've laid down tarmac over the tracks at the crossing there as well.

    The only thing is, I'm not sure if the Foynes route goes by Limerick Junction, or does it use the line that goes to the cement factory? It's the line to the cement factory that has been tarmacced over (there's another two crossings closer to the factory that have also been closed), so the likelihood of the reopening of the Foynes line would be very low if it uses the cement factory track.


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    #35
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    twin lines side by side through the city, both originate at Limerick Station or thereabouts


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    #36
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    The way I understand it, the re-opening of the line depends on a few factors.

    First off, Irish Rail needs a guaranteed flow of regular traffic over a long term, in this case zinc ore so it's reliant on the mining company wanting to go with rail and to make an investment and lay a rail spur onto it's site. Running occasional trains a will not get this off the ground; it needs to be 2-3 trains a day to make it pay it's way otherwise it's not going to be practical from an economic aspect.

    Secondly, the Foynes port need to be able to take on the traffic in question. It has taken rail ore before and they have handled zinc before but they may need to modernise their facilities to make it work. If they can't accomodate the boats then it becomes a non runner.

    Thirdly, the costings to reopen the line are proposed to be factored in with a resignaling and relaying project for the Limerick area. The question then is if the DOT will make the investment into this project. It could be done on a shoestring if it came down to it; a lot of what is there is road fit for low speeds, so my PW friends tell me. Even then, it will still cost 7 figures to get ready, money that CIE don't have.

    The research as been done on the plan, and yes it is possible provided that the powers that be want it to work. For now, it's out of CIE hands.


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    #37
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Disco Stuart wrote: »
    Not so sure, they've laid down tarmac over the tracks at the crossing there as well.

    The only thing is, I'm not sure if the Foynes route goes by Limerick Junction, or does it use the line that goes to the cement factory? It's the line to the cement factory that has been tarmacced over (there's another two crossings closer to the factory that have also been closed), so the likelihood of the reopening of the Foynes line would be very low if it uses the cement factory track.

    The cement branch is closed so long as they aren't bringing Shale from Tipperary into the plant, which is probably never again.


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    #38
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    metrovick001 wrote: »
    Maybe they took down the gates to repair them in anticipation of the line reopening.

    Maybe they are just replacing them with automatic lifting barriers;)


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    #39
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    The cement branch is closed so long as they aren't bringing Shale from Tipperary into the plant, which is probably never again.

    The only consolation is the lines will probably be left intact, past lessons have surely been learned, and in time a commuter railway may be built

    (at least 100 years I suspect)


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    #40
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    relaxed wrote: »
    The only consolation is the lines will probably be left intact, past lessons have surely been learned, and in time a commuter railway may be built

    (at least 100 years I suspect)
    well as long as any tarmac can be removed it should be possible to sort out the track bed for a railway, if the tarmac is on the cement branch then not to worry as it won't be used again, mind you they could have removed the track where they tarmaced on or surely their is some sort of tarmac plate type thing that can be put over tracks these days that can be lifted off?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #41
    h.gricer
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭h.gricer


    metrovick001 wrote: »
    Maybe they took down the gates to repair them in anticipation of the line reopening.
    I love your optimism Metrovick, you'v given me an idea, I'm going to remove my bedroom door, take it to the garden shed, then maybe paint and repair it:)


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    #42
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    The way I understand it, the re-opening of the line depends on a few factors.

    First off, Irish Rail needs a guaranteed flow of regular traffic over a long term, in this case zinc ore so it's reliant on the mining company wanting to go with rail and to make an investment and lay a rail spur onto it's site. Running occasional trains a will not get this off the ground; it needs to be 2-3 trains a day to make it pay it's way otherwise it's not going to be practical from an economic aspect.

    Secondly, the Foynes port need to be able to take on the traffic in question. It has taken rail ore before and they have handled zinc before but they may need to modernise their facilities to make it work. If they can't accomodate the boats then it becomes a non runner.

    Thirdly, the costings to reopen the line are proposed to be factored in with a resignaling and relaying project for the Limerick area. The question then is if the DOT will make the investment into this project. It could be done on a shoestring if it came down to it; a lot of what is there is road fit for low speeds, so my PW friends tell me. Even then, it will still cost 7 figures to get ready, money that CIE don't have.

    The research as been done on the plan, and yes it is possible provided that the powers that be want it to work. For now, it's out of CIE hands.

    I would doubt that even 2 trains a day is actually possible, even if enough ore was available. I imagine that everything would have to be done within a single shift. Even with two rakes of wagons,(if they exist) what with shunting and loading /unloading and light engine workings, one train a day would be tight in a single shift I'd say.


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    #43
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    How long more is Tara traffic expected to last? How much life will be left in the wagons when it does? The Drogheda-Navan panels could be used to relay the line since there's no interest in passenger.


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    #44
    Hungerford
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭Hungerford


    dowlingm wrote: »
    How long more is Tara traffic expected to last?

    The mine has a lifespan of more than 20 years due to deposit finds in recent years.


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    #45
    RikkFlair
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭RikkFlair


    This is the crossing where the tarmac is http://goo.gl/maps/NKEIK. Both the cement factory & Foynes line covered.

    One line looking overgrown and thats 4 years ago.


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    #46
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    end of the road wrote: »
    well as long as any tarmac can be removed it should be possible to sort out the track bed for a railway, if the tarmac is on the cement branch then not to worry as it won't be used again, mind you they could have removed the track where they tarmaced on or surely their is some sort of tarmac plate type thing that can be put over tracks these days that can be lifted off?

    I'd say it has scope for a Luas style redevelopment.

    This would be a long term aspiration of course.

    With good planning and high density development over the last 20 years we could have had a light rail circular line using the cement branch outbound to the shopping centre then along the road past the hospital, through the industrial estate and back into the city centre along the foynes branch.


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    #47
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I don't know really, you don't see that many buses in that area so I wonder if there are enough passengers to justify the millions required to build it.


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    #48
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    relaxed wrote: »
    I'd say it has scope for a Luas style redevelopment.

    This would be a long term aspiration of course.

    With good planning and high density development over the last 20 years we could have had a light rail circular line using the cement branch outbound to the shopping centre then along the road past the hospital, through the industrial estate and back into the city centre along the foynes branch.
    we could have got a fantastic railway system with good planning but it wasn't to be.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #49
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    end of the road wrote: »
    we could have got a fantastic railway system with good planning but it wasn't to be.

    I think when faced with the choice of a good railway system or being allowed to build a house/bungalow anywhere at all, most Irish people would chose the latter.


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    #50
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    It looks like the Irish Railway Developments blog has written a post on the Foynes line:

    http://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/railfreight-from-foynes-again/


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    #51
    GBOA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭GBOA


    Whoever bought Adare station could end up being quite lucky if this happens. Unless of course, they have no interest in rail... I can hear the objections now if that's the case.


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    #52
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    GBOA wrote: »
    Whoever bought Adare station could end up being quite lucky if this happens. Unless of course, they have no interest in rail... I can hear the objections now if that's the case.

    How so?


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    #53
    lord lucan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    How so?

    I took it to mean that if its a rail buff that owns the station they'll be delighted to see an 071 pass by their back door a couple of times every day. However, if they're not they may lodge an objection but I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on as the line was never formally abandoned.


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    #54
    Itsdacraic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭Itsdacraic


    How likely would this line be to reopen?

    50/50?


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    #55
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    lord lucan wrote: »
    I took it to mean that if its a rail buff that owns the station they'll be delighted to see an 071 pass by their back door a couple of times every day. However, if they're not they may lodge an objection but I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on as the line was never formally abandoned.

    CIE Property sold it, and as that entity moves on a geological timescale I'm assuming they covered themselves well, in case they go tripping over rails or doing something mad like building an extension across the track.


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    #56
    GBOA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭GBOA


    lord lucan wrote: »
    I took it to mean that if its a rail buff that owns the station they'll be delighted to see an 071 pass by their back door a couple of times every day. However, if they're not they may lodge an objection but I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on as the line was never formally abandoned.

    Exactly what I meant!

    Something similar happened back home when the Stirling - Kincardine line reopened to freight. Those who had bought nice new builds with gardens backing on to the line were none too happy when a 66 hauling coal passed a couple of times a night although there were always plans for the line to be reopened.


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    #57
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    i'd love that! I do have a disused line behind my house as it happens, but no coal mine


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    #58
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    Patrick O'Donovan TD raised a question on the Foynes rail line to Leo Varadkar in the Dáil on the 19th December.

    More at http://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/varakar-supportive-of-foynes-rail-freight/


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    #59
    Sligo Quay
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Sligo Quay


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    Patrick O'Donovan TD raised a question on the Foynes rail line to Leo Varadkar in the Dáil on the 19th December.

    More at http://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/varakar-supportive-of-foynes-rail-freight/
    Read all that, very aspirational but its a case of ''never say never'' every minister says that, just like Minister Dempsey before him, he had dreams of lines going all the way to Navan.
    Leo varadkar made a statement a few months ago which is probably more to the truth, ''there are no plans to open new lines or reopen old lines in the present economic circumstances'' thats about the size of it, anything else, dream on, the most important 4words are at the end of the link '' We await further developments.'' that keeps everybody happy and keeps some people's dream alive.


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