Gait Analysis?

Tar.Aldarion · 21-02-2015 1:24am #1

Where is the best place to get this done in Dublin? I'm going to be running a lot and at the moment after 1km both my shins are in bits, I'm sure I have terrible running technique.

As far as I can see Amphibian king and runways have free gait analysis if you are buying shoes, which I want to do too.
I also see runways have a premium one however much that is.
http://www.runways.ie/store/content/356/Gait-Analysis/

Any experiences of one over the other?
edit: is the ashtown one gone? That probably leaves runways as the option.

pistol_75 · 21-02-2015 1:30am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Where is the best place to get this done in Dublin? I'm going to be running a lot and at the moment after 1km both my shins are in bits, I'm sure I have terrible running technique.

As far as I can see Amphibian king and runways have free gait analysis if you are buying shoes, which I want to do too.
I also see runways have a premium one however much that is.
http://www.runways.ie/store/content/356/Gait-Analysis/

Any experiences of one over the other?
edit: is the ashtown one gone? That probably leaves runways as the option.

The shop in Ashtown is called The Run Hub now. Same owners. I would recommend them from personal experience.

ultraman1 · 21-02-2015 12:07pm

pistol_75 wrote: »

The shop in Ashtown is called The Run Hub now. Same owners. I would recommend them from personal experience.

Wud also recommend runlogic as ,well as run hub...Kevin(run hub) and ash(runlogic) know their stuff .

Vito Andolini · 21-02-2015 2:11pm

What do runways charge for the advanced gait analysis?

Slydice · 21-02-2015 5:35pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Where is the best place to get this done in Dublin? I'm going to be running a lot and at the moment after 1km both my shins are in bits, I'm sure I have terrible running technique.

As far as I can see Amphibian king and runways have free gait analysis if you are buying shoes, which I want to do too.
I also see runways have a premium one however much that is.
http://www.runways.ie/store/content/356/Gait-Analysis/

Any experiences of one over the other?
edit: is the ashtown one gone? That probably leaves runways as the option.

Back when I was looking to get into running, I also wanted to get gait analysis and shoes. Everyone was bigging up Amphibian King at the time and after watching a few discussions, it seemed that Bray was the store to go to. So much so that even though I live in the north city, I went there.

I wasn't disappointed. While waiting there for about an hour, this young lad behind the counter dealt with a bunch of customers really well and sold what looked to me to between 500 - 1000 worth of shoes. He then did a Gait analysis for me and I think he nailed it. He also recommended exercises to make my legs stronger.

Now that was a few years ago. Don't know if it's the same now but it was definitely worth it back then.

Shoes ain't cheap though is one thing to bear in mind. Also book in advance if you don't want to be waiting ages like I was

Tar.Aldarion · 23-02-2015 4:48pm

Vito Andolini wrote: »

What do runways charge for the advanced gait analysis?

I asked now and they no longer offer that service, they said:

"We do have Sports Therapist who conducts the gait anyalsis instore though who can answer any questions on biomechanics or injury worries and that is free."

Fear Ciarrai · 09-04-2015 5:25pm

Where is the best place to get Gait Analysis in Kerry? Any experiences?

JohnDozer · 09-04-2015 7:11pm

Fear Ciarrai wrote:

Where is the best place to get Gait Analysis in Kerry? Any experiences?

I've had it done in both Feet First in Killarney and Hennebrys in Tralee. Don't really know what other options there are. I'd stay away from Elverys in general. Both the stores mentioned above were ok in terms of their recommendations, I'd probably lean more towards Hennebrys in terms of their actual stock of runners to purchase post analysis

Murtinho · 09-04-2015 7:26pm

I travelled up to amphibian king in Dublin, just off the M50 somewhere and he nailed it with me too.
Bought a pair of Brooks Ghost and having tried a few cheaper versions over the past few months im going to back for the Brooks.

spaceylou · 09-04-2015 10:41pm

Has anyone tried RunnersNeeds in Snow and Rock, Dundrum or RunZone in Rathgar? Apparently both offer gait analysis and would be much handier for me than Bray...but am willing to travel if Snow and Rock or RunZone are not up to scratch.

GingerLily · 20-03-2018 6:09pm

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get gait analysis done? I'm hoping to start running, not even too seriously (up to 10k), but I have awful problems with my shins.

Dublin City Centre would be preferable.

Should I go straight to a physio or wait till I have get shin problems? I'll definitely start getting issues within the first few sessions.

RayCun · 20-03-2018 6:17pm

GingerLily wrote: »

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get gait analysis done? I'm hoping to start running, not even too seriously (up to 10k), but I have awful problems with my shins.

Dublin City Centre would be preferable.

Should I go straight to a physio or wait till I have get shin problems? I'll definitely start getting issues within the first few sessions.

The main thing is to get advice on shoes from someone who knows what they're talking about. Gait analysis could be a tool they use, but it isn't essential.

In the city centre, I think Run Logic in Temple Bar is your best bet. I haven't bought runners there myself, but they have a decent reputation.

If you have trouble with your shins, build up slowly, and look up stretches for shin splints

Tar.Aldarion · 20-03-2018 6:31pm

Ah my old thread, I went to The Run Hub (previously amphibian king) and they were great, got good advice and shoes that suited me, shin problems disappeared. Could see from a recording what normal shoes were like on me, terrible! Needed a lot of support. Unfortunately got hit by a car afterwards and haven't been able to get back running in them since!

GingerLily · 20-03-2018 6:38pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Ah my old thread, I went to The Run Hub (previously amphibian king) and they were great, got good advice and shoes that suited me, shin problems disappeared. Could see from a recording what normal shoes were like on me, terrible! Needed a lot of support. Unfortunately got hit by a car afterwards and haven't been able to get back running in them since!

Oh no

Thanks for the advise all the same

Murph_D · 20-03-2018 6:51pm

It seems the jury is out on the validity of over/under pronation as a running ‘problem’. When you look at those lovely slow motion shots of runners’ feet during Majors and Olympic marathons, it looks like the elites over/under primate (and heel strike) as much as we bozos.

Those video analysis setups sure sell a lot of shoes though - or did, not sure if gait analysis is as big a thing as it was a few years ago.

Having said all that, I still use support shoes myself despite my scepticism. Because they haven’t caused any problems, and if it ain’t broke, etc.

OOnegative · 20-03-2018 6:56pm

Murph_D wrote: »

It seems the jury is out on the validity of over/under probation

That a fancy kind of “probation”..........

Murph_D · 20-03-2018 7:02pm

OOnegative wrote: »

That a fancy kind of “probation”..........

Oops. Sorry officer. Edited.

GingerLily · 20-03-2018 7:15pm

Is there anywhere else in Dublin that people would recommend?

What kind of Budget would I need?

skyblue46 · 20-03-2018 7:49pm

GingerLily wrote: »

Is there anywhere else in Dublin that people would recommend?

What kind of Budget would I need?

Generally if you buy runners after the gait analysis they only charge for the runners. Run Hub in Ashtown charge €20 for gait analysis on its own.

GingerLily · 20-03-2018 11:56pm

What kind of budget should I expect, is 100e realistic?

skyblue46 · 21-03-2018 12:04am

GingerLily wrote: »

What kind of budget should I expect, is 100e realistic?

I'd say 100-140

manonboard · 21-03-2018 12:07am

Murph_D wrote: »

It seems the jury is out on the validity of over/under pronation as a running ‘problem’. When you look at those lovely slow motion shots of runners’ feet during Majors and Olympic marathons, it looks like the elites over/under primate (and heel strike) as much as we bozos.

It's an interesting question. I've been studying it slowly for a couple of years, and took a qualification in sports massage therapy as part of that.
I reckon it is important, and i know how some dysfunctions are caused by it (and it is also caused by the dysfunctions in a feedback loop).
What is more important is how the whole body compensates, and there will be individual differences that decide if its a problem or not.

For me, my feet cave inwards when pressure applied on left side. Causes my knee to turn in, which begins to damage that joint which manifests in a small sprain fairly consistently. Especially noticeable walking down hills.
Turns out its a whole bunch of weakness not externally rotating my thigh correctly. It all fed into one another.
So i say Gait is fairly important, but only one aspect in the overall scheme of things. Some people might have more elastic ligaments (girls do) which allow them to escape injuries where others dont.

I think the jury is still out in my own mind, on whether using shoes to correct it is a good thing, or a short cut which avoids fixing the movement issue in the first place. Though we all have a limited amount of time and energy

pconn062 · 21-03-2018 12:29am

Gait analysis is a bit of a con (at least the rushed job that they do in shoe shops is). Sure it can tell you if you "overpronate" or not (does it matter?) but there is little evidence that shoes are able to control pronation to any real extent. Also it's too simplistic, three neat boxes: neutral, overpronator or supinator. What are the odds that everybody just fits into one of these three neat categories that the shoe suppliers just happen to design shoes for!?

The best thing to do is buy the runners which you find the most comfortable and don't worry about whether they are "support" or neutral.

Lastly, most people that work is speciality running stores don't have the training required to comment on foot mechanics and complex things like foot function, navicular drop, bio mechanics etc.

Good article here: https://runnersconnect.net/running-gait-analysis-footwear/

Using the term ‘overpronation’ as a diagnosis is where the problem lies.

There are many potential causes for the observed foot mechanics: the most commonly quoted is descending of the inner arch (navicular drop) but the same movement could be a product of the heel falling onto its inner edge (calcaneal eversion) or the forefoot turning outwards (forefoot abduction), or maybe a combination of all three.

Categorizing runner according to what their medial arch is seen to do during slow motion video is not a viable model for prescribing a running shoe.

Tar.Aldarion · 21-03-2018 1:25am

I don't know if the shoes fixing the pronation or not that mattered for me, all I know is the shoes cleared up all my problems instantly and that the shoes with a huge amount of support fixed my gait in the video, had to try over a dozen to get ones working for me (have pretty much no arches), it could surely just having the extra support that helps but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me as long as it's fixed. I have some flatter ones I use for gym work and running in them on the treadmill kills me straight away.

RayCun · 21-03-2018 7:28am

skyblue46 wrote: »

Generally if you buy runners after the gait analysis they only charge for the runners. Run Hub in Ashtown charge €20 for gait analysis on its own.

That's basically a charge to stop people trying on a bunch of runners and then going to Amazon

GingerLily · 21-03-2018 8:35am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I don't know if the shoes fixing the pronation or not that mattered for me, all I know is the shoes cleared up all my problems instantly and that the shoes with a huge amount of support fixed my gait in the video, had to try over a dozen to get ones working for me (have pretty much no arches), it could surely just having the extra support that helps but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me as long as it's fixed. I have some flatter ones I use for gym work and running in them on the treadmill kills me straight away.

I think it's arch support that's really my issue too rather than anything else

Macy0161 · 21-03-2018 8:56am

pconn062 wrote: »

Gait analysis is a bit of a con (at least the rushed job that they do in shoe shops is). Sure it can tell you if you "overpronate" or not (does it matter?) but there is little evidence that shoes are able to control pronation to any real extent. Also it's too simplistic, three neat boxes: neutral, overpronator or supinator. What are the odds that everybody just fits into one of these three neat categories that the shoe suppliers just happen to design shoes for!?

The best thing to do is buy the runners which you find the most comfortable and don't worry about whether they are "support" or neutral.

I don't know about the con job tbh. My physio diagnosed my issues as under pronating, the Amphibian King Gait anaylsis (and I didn't tell them my "history" gave the same diagnosis, and recommended the same type of runner as the physio was recommending (neutral, cushioned and zero support to encourage pronation). Even down to the drop was right as to her diagnosis.

Fwiw, they said that although I was wearing neutral runners, the brand/ model I was wearing did offer some support which wasn't helping me. They did stock that brand and model too.

Given that any kind of mention of ankle soreness or knee soreness on here seems to have people pointed towards support runners/ insoles (which in my case is the opposite to what I need), I don't think there's any harm in people going to one of the specialist shops for Gait Analysis.

Testosterscone · 21-03-2018 10:19am

Macy0161 wrote: »

I don't know about the con job tbh. My physio diagnosed my issues as under pronating, the Amphibian King Gait anaylsis (and I didn't tell them my "history" gave the same diagnosis, and recommended the same type of runner as the physio was recommending (neutral, cushioned and zero support to encourage pronation). Even down to the drop was right as to her diagnosis.

Fwiw, they said that although I was wearing neutral runners, the brand/ model I was wearing did offer some support which wasn't helping me. They did stock that brand and model too.

Given that any kind of mention of ankle soreness or knee soreness on here seems to have people pointed towards support runners/ insoles (which in my case is the opposite to what I need), I don't think there's any harm in people going to one of the specialist shops for Gait Analysis.

The problem with that is that correlation does not equal causation. A Gait analysis may indeed come to the right conclusion but this is meaningless if a proper assessment of why is not conducted.

The shoe will aim to correct an the likes of overpronation (not a fan of using this as a characterization as major of people who overpronate have no issue and it is only when it becomes excessive that it can have a bearing on injury risk for some) etc but often that correction can affect somewhere further along the kinetic chain. This is one of the main issues with an analysis that doesn't look at the overall picture it is often a quick fix by pushing something else out of whack.

Interestingly as well there was a decent meta-analysis of back around 2012/13 IIRC that actually said that footwear has alot less of a bearing on injury risk that many would believe and comfort as a guide was actually one of the more accurate ways of finding a shoe that reduced injury.

....... · 21-03-2018 10:33am

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GingerLily · 21-03-2018 11:23am

....... wrote: »

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I have high arches and developed plantar fasciitis some time after doing couch to 5k. One foot was much worse than the other.

I tried different running shoes, and did the rounds of physiotherapists, physical therapists, got deep tissue massage, stopped running for ages, even had a knee surgery for something unrelated in between but the plantar fasciitis persisted - for nearly 2 years Id say and for at least a year of that I completely stopped running.

Anyway, a chance remark to my GP and she recommended Mike Davis in Well Shod for analysis and orthotics. Long waiting list. Got an appointment about 6 months after I phoned, and he made me both running and walking insoles to support my arches and also to lift my heels a little (the walking ones). He is truly a magician. Within 24 hours of wearing the walking insoles the pain started to recede and it was 90% gone within 3 weeks (this was 2 years id had the pain!). Over the next couple of months it disappeared completely. Then I started running again, using the running insoles and a pair of asics (I had usually run in asics), I had to get a bigger size to accommodate the insoles. Perfect. Not a problem since. I was able to stop wearing the walking insoles after a while and now only use them if Im going to go for a long walk - like 5k - or an uneven walk - like a mountain trail - although even then I dont always need them. I only run in the running insoles - wouldnt consider running without them - tried and flared up a mild version of the pain immediately.

Total cost was about 230 euro, that was consultation and 2 pairs of insoles and I believe that was 2 years ago now. Both sets of insoles still grand - although the walking ones have had little wear.[/quote]

Thanks for this advice - while this sounds like where I'll probably end up - I don't know if I want to wait half a year.

pconn062 · 21-03-2018 12:13pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

The problem with that is that correlation does not equal causation. A Gait analysis may indeed come to the right conclusion but this is meaningless if a proper assessment of why is not conducted.

The shoe will aim to correct an the likes of overpronation (not a fan of using this as a characterization as major of people who overpronate have no issue and it is only when it becomes excessive that it can have a bearing on injury risk for some) etc but often that correction can affect somewhere further along the kinetic chain. This is one of the main issues with an analysis that doesn't look at the overall picture it is often a quick fix by pushing something else out of whack.

+1

A big bug bear of mine is that gait analysis typically (in any places I've seen anyway) focuses on movement pf the foot from the ankle down. But a collapse of the medial arch can come from excessive knee valgus, or poor hip abductor control, which rarely ever picked up on in an in shop gait analysis (how could you expect someone in a shoe shop to pick this stuff up?). No amount of motion control in a show will correct that.

pconn062 · 21-03-2018 12:18pm

GingerLily wrote: »

Thanks for this advice - while this sounds like where I'll probably end up - I don't know if I want to wait half a year.

I wouldn't jump straight into insoles, especially as I think you've mentioned you haven't even started running yet? While some people do need insoles, in the vast number of cases they are over prescribed. What exactly is the issue you have with your shins? Have you tried running before?

Just to give a different slant, I got insoles from the same person as the previous poster (Michael Davis, who is great at what he does). I got them to help with injury issues I was having, most notably shin pain. They didn't work for me at all, and eventually they caused a flare up of plantar fasciopathy in both my feet so I had to stop wearing them. There is no magic bullet unfortunately. Strength work and a slow, progressive build up in terms of training i have found to be best as running injury free.

....... · 21-03-2018 12:24pm

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GingerLily · 21-03-2018 12:45pm

I want to start up running, I had really bad shin splints from playing tag really bad pain at the front of my shin bone. Wearing heels would help with the pain on the days afterwards so it's definitely to do with my calves as well.

Where should I start? I plan on doing the coach to 5k and then hopefully hell and back in June. I want to keep it to hiking and strength training aside from the running.

I need new runners too.

So can anyone give me advice? Maybe I should have started my own thread - sorry. My friends all seem to run fine so I can't really talk to them, I only want to get to a moderate level of running - 10km by the end of the year kinda thing.

Tar.Aldarion · 21-03-2018 12:46pm

Yeah make sure you need them, I've had insoles since I was a child prescribed in a hospital even just for walking. A lot of shin pain could just be getting used to things, and having to take your time amongst other things.

....... · 21-03-2018 12:52pm

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GingerLily · 21-03-2018 12:57pm

Tag rugby - I had been doing coach to 5k at that time and was about 6 weeks in.

There is a lot of sprinting and quick stopping in tag which hurt quite badly.

Thanks for the tips about stretching out the C25K, and advice on where to go for runners?

....... · 21-03-2018 1:04pm

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RayCun · 21-03-2018 1:55pm

I used to get shin pain from walking, but it wasn't an issue with running. I think it is often down to tight muscles, not used to the movement. Start easy, build up gradually, and do some stretching before deciding you need insoles.

Testosterscone · 21-03-2018 3:44pm

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Probably a bit off topic here but IMO the reason couch to 5k is successful is because it is simple however I would ultimately say it is to the detriment of overall development.

It is a one dimensional plan that ultimately doesn't prepare the body bio-mechanically for running and ultimately people fall into the mentality of simply viewing progression as more or faster and ultimately it is not the aerobic capacity that is limiting many runners and also why overuse injuries tend to be so prevalent in runners (in particular marathon runners given the demographic of relatively new to the sport without a significant exposure to a multi dimensional approach to training as a result of the access of generic running plans (many of these books do include S and C elements and drills etc but often get overlooked)

Gait Analysis?

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