GPS on buses in Dublin

luckat · 10-05-2006 10:02am #1

Anyone know why there isn't GPS on buses in Dublin?

I get the bus to work every day (outside normal working hours) and it could come any time within a specific half-hour.

Occasionally I ring the garage and politely ask for a location for my bus; sometimes the controller is able to tell me. But it's sometimes happened that the controller comes back and says "I can't get hold of that lad, he's not answering".

The reason people love the Luas and the Dart is that you actually know when your transport is going to arrive. With GPS, buses could be the same...

markpb · 10-05-2006 11:06am

They started rolling it out on a pilot several years ago but DoT (as usual) pulled the funding it and was halted. Apparently they're starting it again now that the new ticking machines have been fitted to all the buses. Maybe in two years it might be a reality?

Doodee · 10-05-2006 12:07pm

heh, i just finished my Thesis on this actually.

They have the capacity for it, the new ticket machines using a GPS connection and a GPRS or 3G for upload are more than suitable to do this (as the ticket machine records the stops) but Dublin Bus are slow to impliment such things. in reality using real time gps (as differential doesn't offer the same level of accuracy in Urban Sprawls) a communications medium (Such as GSM connection) and a suitable Webserver should only take 6 months to test and have fully operational.
I'm also surprised by their lack of a proper E-Ticketing System. The whole lot can be offered with no real impact to their budget, but a huge time saver for their customers. Somehow I dont think they even know what TELEPAY is.

MarkoP11 · 10-05-2006 12:32pm

Theory is easy making it work with 1100 buses is hard, not to mention expensive lots of software integration fun. The human element here is a problem many a time the driver not push the button to select the next stage on the ticket machine. I remain to be convinced that GPS will work reliably, I know all about GPS not working in the city centre area.

On paper it is easy, its not trivial when you allow for the real world when you get into things such as update rates, is it event or time triggered, what level of accuracy do you want etc how do you extrapolate journey time, how do you adjust for prevailing traffic conditions. As the previous poster knows there is a serious amount of work involved

Luas and rail are easy as the information you need is recorded centrally and can be processed offline it requires no GPS or other devices fitted to the unit

May come as a surprise but CIE played around with differental tracking in the mid 1980's for Dublin buses

You don't even want to get into ticketing thats a whole different game plan amy problem is the control the DoT have on ticketing policy and levels

MiniD · 10-05-2006 12:33pm

This service was introduced on a few routes back in 2001/2002. The 25/A, 66/A/B/X, 67,A/X, and 78A. Its is still operational at the moment from what I know.
As the poster above mentioned, the promised funding for this project seemed to disappear, however last month Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann announced they hope to have the system in place in the next few months.

There is now one bus currently being tested on route 25A (AX415) which gives live announcements and displays for the apporaching stops, similar to Luas.

bk · 10-05-2006 1:57pm

The buses new ticketing machines are fully compatible with GPS, GPRS/3G and automated signs and announcements.

They are also compatible with contactless smart cards for e-ticketing.

As usual adequate funding is the issue.

Litcagral · 10-05-2006 2:03pm

Aicoach have it on the airport service. I'm not sure if it's on the Cork and Belfast routes.

John R · 10-05-2006 11:36pm

Litcagral wrote:

Aicoach have it on the airport service. I'm not sure if it's on the Cork and Belfast routes.

No, just the Airport service.

It is a huge leap in complexity to provide useable on-line tracking for an entire network, 20 odd buses on one linear route is no comparison to 1100 buses on 200 routes. Certainly it requires a big leap in customer focused information over their current standard.

Much of the groundwork has been done though, necessary things such as locating/numbering every bus stop are in place so hopefully once the system is installed it can be operational rapidly.

I posted this when it was announced, Dublin Bus have tendered earlier this year for a complete system to be installed and operated for the entire fleet.

http://www.e-tenders.gov.ie/search/search_show.aspx?ID=APR057128

All the technical upgrades over the last few years; ticket machines, digital radio system, smartcard readers are all designed to operate together as a complete bus operating package along with real-time location equipment. It is more or less an off-the-shelf product, all the equipment is industry-standard and the experiences in other locations should mean there will be less teething troubles once it is operational.

From the tender it would seem they are contracting the installation and operation completely to an outside company.

luckat · 11-05-2006 3:25pm

Praise the Lord! Hope it comes in soon.

Victor · 11-05-2006 11:39pm

Surely GPS, + inertial / tachograph + time will give something better than GPS only. And in any case the GPS can only be wrong by a certain amount?

Doodee wrote:

but Dublin Bus are slow to impliment such things.

To be honest the new CCTV system seem to have been rolled out quickly enough.

Of course, Anto and Deco might have "considerations" now that controllers can see their actual progress.

Victor · 12-05-2006 1:07am

http://www.buseireann.ie/site/news_centre/press_releases.asp?action=view&news_id=442

REAL-TIME INFORMATION EN ROUTE FOR CUSTOMERS

April 30, 2006 - Bus Éireann has announced it is to roll out satellite navigation technology across its entire fleet, enabling customers across the country to access real time information on arrivals – on the Web, via text message and at bus stations.

GPS systems are already operated by bus companies in many cities internationally. In rolling out the system nationally, Bus Éireann will make Ireland the first country to do so.

Not only will the system prove of major benefit to customers in terms of convenience, it will be of significant use to the company and its employees, enabling it to improve efficiency of operations as well as communications and safety, by allowing it to identify the exact location of all buses at all times.

Real-time information tells customers exactly when the next bus is due to arrive, as opposed to the scheduled time of arrival. The provision of real-time information is underpinned by GPS (Global Positioning System) technology, which, once implemented, will allow Bus Éireann to centrally track and monitor its vehicles at all times.

Siemens Ireland has been awarded the contract to install the on-board equipment and provide the necessary technical infrastructure for the Bus Éireann depots.

Announcing the investment, Dr John Lynch, Chairman of CIÉ and Bus Éireann said: “This is an innovative project which will significantly improve the service provided by Bus Éireann to our 48 million annual customers. The introduction of modern information technology for the convenience of customers builds on the many improvements that have been made by the company for the benefit of passengers in recent years - increasing departures, improving frequencies, modernising stations and upgrading the fleet.”

€4.2 million is to be invested in installing the new technology across the Bus Éireann fleet of 700 vehicles. Going forward, new buses introduced to the fleet will come with GPS fitted as standard.

The first phase of the roll-out will commence in September 2006 on selected Expressway services to and from Dublin. Full nationwide roll-out will commence in 2007, with satellite tracking technology to be fitted on all Expressway and Commuter coaches across the country and on city buses in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford.

Benefits to Customers

Once operational the GPS technology will deliver major benefits for customers, through the provision of the following.

1. Real-time information

By enabling Bus Éireann to pin-point the exact location of all buses in its fleet at any given time, real-time information (based on actual as opposed to scheduled running times), can be provided to customers, improving the convenience of the service for passengers.

Customers will be able to access real-time information in the following ways:

By text message. Customers will be able to access real-time information by SMS, through the use of mobile phones.
Online. Real-time information on services will be available on the Web at the click of the mouse.
By telephone. Bus Éireann Customer Information (01 8366111) will provide real-time information to callers checking on arrival times etc
In stations. It is intended as part of the second phase to expand the scope of the facility to provide real-time passenger information to customers at all stations.

2. ‘Next Stop’ Announcements

The system will also make it possible for ‘Next Stop’ announcements to be made on board buses, prior to the arrival of the bus at designated stops.

3. Improved security

Security for drivers and passengers will be enhanced by supplying Bus Éireann depots with precise information as to the location of all buses in service at any given time. The provision of improved on-board communications technology to facilitate direct communications between the driver and the depot through will also improve security.

4. Travel Information

When the system is fully operational, Bus Eireann will be able to provide, on its Web site, real-time accurate travelling times between locations throughout Ireland. This will be of benefit to all members of the travelling public as well as customers.

Benefits to Bus Éireann

In addition to enabling the company to provide an improved service to its customers, the new technology will allow the company to track and monitor vehicles and will enable it to:

Provide improved driver security and safety by enabling immediate location of vehicles and access to communications and alarms at all times.
make better scheduling decisions, leading to more efficient use of the fleet on the basis of precise vehicle location information
obtain detailed statistics on actual running times which will help in the planning process leading to improvements in the overall quality of service to the customer.

Investment of €4.2 million

The new technology represents an investment of €4.2 million, of which €3 million is to be funded by the Department of Transport under the National Development Plan. Bus Éireann is to fund the investment on Expressway routes through its own resources.

How the System Works

Each vehicle in the fleet will be fitted with a specially designed computer capable of establishing its exact location using satellite technology. This computer will also hold the bus timetable as well as the exact location of all Bus Éireann stops. The system will communicate with the bus ticket machine to establish the route and direction in which it is travelling and will use this, the timetable and its current position to calculate the exact time it will take to travel to the next stop. Using mobile communications, this information is transferred to a central computer which distributes it to the Web site, to mobile phones and electronic display signs at bus stations.

Preparation for Roll-out

The preparatory work for the rollout of the GPS system has been considerable, involving the meticulous measuring of distances between stops and capturing the GPS co-ordinates for all stops on a route in both directions. Modern communications structures needed to be put in place using Broadband networks as well as wireless communications at all depots. Furthermore, each vehicle needs to have the computer fitted securely and wired to communicate with many on board device.

Siemens

Siemens Ireland has been awarded the contract to install the on-board equipment and provide the necessary technical infrastructure for the Bus Éireann depots.

In awarding the contract to Siemens, Bus Éireann will benefit from Siemens’ 40 years experience of supplying successful public transport solutions to customers around the world. The system will be supplied by Siemens Switzerland, who have successfully installed over 80 such systems worldwide.

Issued by:
Media and Public Relations, Bus Éireann, Broadstone, Dublin 7.

Benster · 12-05-2006 10:59am

Something similar to this then, only Translink are emphasising the bridge-avoidance capabilities of their system?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4764171.stm

And they seem to have got it right with the wheelchair access too...(going back to a previous bus-related row)

shltter · 12-05-2006 2:24pm

Victor wrote:

Of course, Anto and Deco might have "considerations" now that controllers can see their actual progress.

Nice to see that T21 has some company in his prejudice

Now that you have indulged in some stereotyping perhaps you might be interested in some facts the issue of real time tracking is already agreed and has been for a number of years

Implementation is not being delayed by the Unions and never was

Victor · 12-05-2006 9:02pm

shltter wrote:

Nice to see that T21 has some company in his prejudice

He's tainted me.

I think it was a quarrying / concrete company almost had a strike when they tried to implement GPS tracking.

GPS on buses in Dublin

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