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Supreme Court orders Garda murderer be given remission.

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Comments

  • #52
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........
    To be fair, most people recognise the need to balance out principle against the greater good.

    In principle the IRA scum should be left to rot in prison, but if their release can secure a lasting peace (and it has), then it serves the greater good.

    We do also have to remember that the aim of prison is not to exact revenge for a person's crime on behalf of society. It serves firstly as a deterrent, but primarily its purpose is punishment - to try and rehabilitate the offender to the point that they understand why their crime was wrong.

    It's based on the knowledge that people do change and they do learn. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, and I've done plenty of dumb things back then which I wouldn't dream of doing now.

    I don't see any reason why this man can't have changed in 27 years (he's nearly 50 now), and if those charged with his care and with assessing him have agreed that he's a changed man, then I see no purpose being served in holding him for another 13 years, just because.


  • #53
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    realies wrote: »
    A MAN entering his 28th year of a 40-year sentence for the murder of a Garda could be freed almost immediately after a five judge Supreme Court ruled today he is entitled to be considered for remission, including the greater remission available for good behaviour.


    If granted even normal remission, Noel Callan will be freed by 2016 but the court also ruled he, who was described as a "model prisoner" was eligible for the higher remission of one third... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-killer-sentenced-to-40-years-is-granted-early-release-29432209.html


    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The State had argued, when a sentence is commuted, the right to statutory remission is lost. A central issue in the case was whether Mr Callan has the status of a prisoner who has been "sentenced".
    Today, the Supreme Court granted a declaration he is a person who has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment exceeding one month who is therefore eligible, by good conduct, to earn remission, including higher remission, under the relevant prison rules.
    .indo_survey>.wrap{position:inherit; background:#FFFFFF; display:block;}
    The court rejected the arguments Mr Callan was serving "a commutation" rather than a sentence.

    Well should a man convicted of murdering a Garda be given remission ? He has served 27 years.

    My own opinion is that if the man has shown that he is fully reformed and abides by all the states terms after 27 years inside he should be eligible for a supervised release.

    His release on remission will be totally unsupervised as his sentence will then be considered served.


  • #54
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Why is it a bigger crime to kill a guard than a civilian? Surely when they sign up they know they are going to be put in risky situations and it is their job to protect the public. I am not for a second saying it is OK to kill or even assault a Guard but i don't see why it is a much bigger crime.

    If he had a killed a normal Joe soap he would have been out over a decade ago. It says that he has been a model prisoner and he didnt even fire the gun.


  • #55
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Cody Pomeroy gave an an excellent answer to that on the other thread on this subject
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85584752&postcount=36


  • #56
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    Threads merged


  • #57
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.

    Gardai and RUC are not comparable. The RUC were combatants in a war. They were a corrupt organisation that acted as the armed wing of a bigoted unionist state and colluded with loyalist death squads. They made themselves targets.
    Prisoners were released as part of a political settlement..
    Completely different scenarios and attempting to draw parallels is just petty point scoring


  • #58
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    martinedwards wrote: »
    at the risk of starting a race war, there were several prisons full of police killers released under the good friday agreement.

    din't see you Southies whinging then........

    in the UK, good behaviour gets a 1/3- 1/2 sentence reduction as standard.

    it gives the prison population a reason the behave and work towards an early release rather than rioting every night.

    "Southies" wow thats classy.
    Actually we did make a fuss and the killers of Detective Garda Gerry McCabe were refused release under the GFA.
    In the UK Judges who sentence Murderers are allowed set a minimum tariff which must be served before parole can be considered. The Irish public (that would be us "Southies") were led to believe that this man, who had his death sentence commuted, would serve the full 40 years without remission.


  • #59
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    The number of people who kill someone in this country and end up serving some paltry sentence like 5 or 6 years is ridiculous - this guy has served almost 30 years. That's a bloody lengthy sentence - people could do with keeping a bit of perspective i reckon.


  • #60
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    ImDave wrote: »
    The interesting thing from what I know of this case, is that he was sentenced to murder but was a passenger in the car/accomplice to an earlier crime. He didn't supply the weapon or pull the trigger. I didn't know one could be sentenced to murder in such a situation.

    I would imagine if it had'nt been a garda that was killed the murder charge wouldnt have flown at all.


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  • #61
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    The number of people who kill someone in this country and end up serving some paltry sentence like 5 or 6 years is ridiculous - this guy has served almost 30 years. That's a bloody lengthy sentence - people could do with keeping a bit of perspective i reckon.

    Exactly. If released in 2016 he'll have served more than 30 years. he went into prison at 22 and will be coming out in his 50s. Surely he has passed the punishment and rehabilitation stages by now. It doesn't serve the state to keep him in any longer.
    He wasnt the triggerman and he has been a model prisoner for nearly three decades.
    It was a horrendous act and I hope the bastards who shot Garda Donohoe end up spending a similar amount of time behind bars, but after 30 years and the best part of the fella's life gone now anyway, this just smacks of revenge, not justice.


  • #62
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    ImDave wrote: »
    The interesting thing from what I know of this case, is that he was sentenced to murder but was a passenger in the car/accomplice to an earlier crime. He didn't supply the weapon or pull the trigger. I didn't know one could be sentenced to murder in such a situation.

    The rule of common enterprise, if two or more people set out to commit a felony and as a result of that felony someone is murdered then all of the active participants are guilty of the murder AFAIK.


  • #63
    martinedwards
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭martinedwards


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Gardai and RUC are not comparable. The RUC were combatants in a war. They were a corrupt organisation that acted as the armed wing of a bigoted unionist state and colluded with loyalist death squads. They made themselves targets.

    that is a spectacularly bigoted statement. well done.

    Prisoners were released as part of a political settlement..
    very true, but the families of the innocent victims felt just the same as the families of the RUC and Army vicitms, which is just the same as this Guard's family feel
    Completely different scenarios and attempting to draw parallels is just petty point scoring

    point scoring? no.

    MAKING a point?

    yes.


  • #64
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    martinedwards wrote: »
    that is a spectacularly bigoted statement. well done.

    How?
    martinedwards wrote: »
    very true, but the families of the innocent victims felt just the same as the families of the RUC and Army vicitms, which is just the same as this Guard's family feel

    Still doesnt make the situations any more comparable. Families are always going to feel the loss of a loved one but it's the state's duty to produce justice, not inflict revenge.
    Also, without wishing to drag this thread off topic, are you implying that the RUC were in some way innocent?
    martinedwards wrote: »
    point scoring? no.

    MAKING a point?

    yes.

    'fraid not. You took a totally unrelated topic and attempted to compare it to a totally incomparable situation in the north to allow you to have a go at the "southies" (?????) and venerate a discredited police force. That, is point scoring.


  • #65
    theSHU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭theSHU


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Exactly. If released in 2016 he'll have served more than 30 years. he went into prison at 22 and will be coming out in his 50s. Surely he has passed the punishment and rehabilitation stages by now. It doesn't serve the state to keep him in any longer.
    He wasnt the triggerman and he has been a model prisoner for nearly three decades.
    It was a horrendous act and I hope the bastards who shot Garda Donohoe end up spending a similar amount of time behind bars, but after 30 years and the best part of the fella's life gone now anyway, this just smacks of revenge, not justice.

    I don't give a fcuk if he is rehabilitated. He took a life and his should be taken from him too. He needs to locked up in the smallest cage for the rest of his life along with the rest of the lowlifes in this country.


  • #66
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    seamus wrote: »
    We do also have to remember that the aim of prison is not to exact revenge for a person's crime on behalf of society. It serves firstly as a deterrent, but primarily its purpose is punishment - to try and rehabilitate the offender to the point that they understand why their crime was wrong.
    It's not the aim, but retribution is one of the legitimate aims of penal servitude, as recognized by the law reform commission and members of the judiciary in handing down prison sentences every day.

    The logic behind it is clear and valid. By punishing the criminal, albeit in a potentially constructive manner, we remove the danger of people taking justice in their own hands. So even where there is little to gain by imprisonment by way of recidivism, there is merit in retribution in its own right.

    This is a central tenet of public confidence in the criminal justice system.


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  • #67
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    theSHU wrote: »
    I don't give a fcuk if he is rehabilitated. He took a life and his should be taken from him too. He needs to locked up in the smallest cage for the rest of his life along with the rest of the lowlifes in this country.

    But did he? I know the legality of the whole joint enterprise thing but bottom line what he actually did was rob a place with a guy who went on to shoot a guard. he didnt shoot him or order him to shoot him.


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