Andy Lee

nacho libre · 27-11-2013 4:23pm #1

I'd love to be wrong about this, but even with the master strategist, Booth, in his corner, i can't see Andy cutting it at the highest level in 2014/2015, because if you're an elite level you should not be getting hit flush by a limited fighter in a six round bout.

walshb · 27-11-2013 4:25pm

nacho libre wrote: »

I'd love to be wrong about this, but even with the master strategist, Booth, in his corner, i can't see Andy cutting it at the highest level in 2014/2015, because if you're elite level you should not be getting hit flush by a limited fighter in a six round bout.

Impossible to be wrong about this. Lee is an amateur in a pro game.

gene_tunney · 27-11-2013 4:26pm

Lee vs Macklin make it happen.

walshb · 27-11-2013 5:12pm

pac_man wrote: »

Depends what you mean by elite level? I wouldn't discount him from winning a world title. Let's say he faces Macklin in March, I'd fancy him in that, in a close 50/50 fight. He might get a world title shot on the basis of that victory and if people like Barker has a world title, he's not a million miles away from that.

That's how sad the division is. Take GGG out!

nacho libre · 27-11-2013 5:29pm

pac_man wrote: »

Depends what you mean by elite level? I wouldn't discount him from winning a world title. Let's say he faces Macklin in March, I'd fancy him in that, in a close 50/50 fight. He might get a world title shot on the basis of that victory and if people like Barker has a world title, he's not a million miles away from that.

Yeah in that scenario he could well win a world title, i meant by elite level competing with the likes of Golovkin, Martinez and Quillin and beating them. Although to be fair Golovkin looks unbeatable at the moment.

Henno30 · 27-11-2013 5:50pm

I was thinking after Froch-Groves the other night about how spot on Andy called it. He's a smart, articulate guy. Angling his way into the media world should definitely be an option for him. He'll probably make more money from it than he will from fighting too.

Lee could conceivably win a belt at middleweight, despite his flaws, but given how few and far between opportunities have been for him so far I don't know if he's going to get that shot. If the belts are in the UK then you never know. Barker et al. are no world beaters either.

magma69 · 27-11-2013 6:00pm

I've lost faith in Andy Lee. He was a better boxer in 2007 than he is now imo. He's had one impressive performance against any one of note, Brian Vera and went life and death with Anthony Fitzgerald and Craig McEwan.

Any fighter with aspirations of being a top 5 middleweight should be putting away this fellas with little to no problems.

He could win a title if he lands a ridiculously poxy bull**** paper title a la Brian Magee. Still a huge fan though and would love for him to prove me wrong.

Halloween Jack · 27-11-2013 6:55pm

Where did it go wrong for Andy? He's obviously talented but has been talked about as a potential star for too long at this stage.

What aspects of his game do people feel are lacking?

From watching him i'd say stamina is a big issue and his willingness to brawl rather than box.

Can these flaws be worked on?

There seems to me to be a trend in boxing (and other sports now that i think of it) whereby athletes are continuing to operate at the highest levels at more advanced ages. I suppose what im getting at then is the fact that better conditioning and more ring nous gained through experience might see Andy be something of a late bloomer?

I certainly hope so anyway, had a couple of small dealings with him and he seems like a smashing bloke.

HigginsJ · 27-11-2013 11:15pm

I don't get why Andy never looked to move up weight class a bit. 6ft 2 is pretty tall to be carrying only 11stone6lbs. Adding those few extra pounds could help with his stamina.

hungry hippo 4 · 29-11-2013 1:05am

HigginsJ wrote: »

I don't get why Andy never looked to move up weight class a bit. 6ft 2 is pretty tall to be carrying only 11stone6lbs. Adding those few extra pounds could help with his stamina.

he's getting ko'd at present weight

Henno30 · 29-11-2013 1:21pm

HigginsJ wrote: »

I don't get why Andy never looked to move up weight class a bit. 6ft 2 is pretty tall to be carrying only 11stone6lbs. Adding those few extra pounds could help with his stamina.

To me he looks really fragile at middleweight, physically quite weak and easy to bully. You could make the argument that an extra 8lbs would make him more resilient, but it makes it even more likely that opponents will walk him down and beat him up.

Lee is like a lot of the tall, technical Ex-Soviet block fighters in that he's technically impressive at distance but too easy to out-hustle once you get inside his jab. Guys who fight Lee find it too easy to make him fight their fight and he's just too weak in every sense of the word to slug it out on the inside.

His best, and probably only, hope of winning a title is fighting someone who's style mirrors his own and outboxing them. Hard to see it though unfortunately. It's more likely that he's a fight or two away from irrelevance.

SRFC · 30-11-2013 4:35am

I think he needs proper fitness trainers,hes never looked shredded to me as far as I remember,If he got into prime fitness he would be a serious force,I dunno if im remembering right but in the chavez fight was he not winning or fighting well for the first few rounds? then it went out the window.

megadodge · 30-11-2013 10:02pm

There are some people who will never have good stamina, no matter how hard they train. I'm afraid Andy is one of them.

walshb · 30-11-2013 10:20pm

His lack of natural stamina is only one area that causes problems. He has more. No real inside game, and lacks a varied attack. Weak defense as well. All around he's just not that good!

barney4001 · 07-12-2013 11:18am

walshb wrote: »

His lack of natural stamina is only one area that causes problems. He has more. No real inside game, and lacks a varied attack. Weak defense as well. All around he's just not that good!

you got it right there walshb I never really rated Lee at all

FTA69 · 07-12-2013 11:57am

I think Macklin would KO him in or around the 6 round mark. Hopefully that fight gets made, it would draw a few viewers I'd say.

Johner · 07-12-2013 12:38pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I think Macklin would KO him in or around the 6 round mark. Hopefully that fight gets made, it would draw a few viewers I'd say.

Macklin is hugely overrated I think, he is very average.

Henno30 · 07-12-2013 1:57pm

Johner wrote: »

Macklin is hugely overrated I think, he is very average.

He's mediocre but he's still a top 10 middleweight. Lee would really struggle to hold him off.

Charlie George · 11-12-2013 3:28pm

Henno30 wrote: »

He's mediocre but he's still a top 10 middleweight. Lee would really struggle to hold him off.

Lee is also top 10 middleweight and i think Macklin is more of a scrapper than a good technical boxer.

Henno30 · 11-12-2013 4:33pm

Charlie George wrote: »

Lee is also top 10 middleweight and i think Macklin is more of a scrapper than a good technical boxer.

I was going to disagree with you but I see the Transnational Rankings Org have him at #10 so fair enough. He's just barely top 10 though to be honest. I wouldn't have him there personally. I don't have anything against him, I'd love to see him do well, but he just hasn't been impressive in a long time.

Johner · 11-12-2013 5:08pm

Lee is a much better boxer than Macklin but Lee is lacking a few key things to make it at the very top level. He is a lovely boxer though. Macklin is decent but with nothing that really stands out, he's solid in everything he does but thats about it.

walshb · 11-12-2013 5:17pm

Johner wrote: »

Lee is a much better boxer than Macklin but Lee is lacking a few key things to make it at the very top level. He is a lovely boxer though. Macklin is decent but with nothing that really stands out, he's solid in everything he does but thats about it.

In other words, neither man is close to great. I think the MW division is one of the weakest today!

Johner · 11-12-2013 5:23pm

walshb wrote: »

In other words, neither man is close to great. I think the MW division is one of the weakest today!

I like Quillin, hes a level below Golovkin and what Martinez was but I think he's a level above Macklin and Lee. Macklin and Lee just aren't world class fighters.

Johner · 11-12-2013 5:26pm

Speaking of middleweights did anyone see Anthony Fitzgerald is fighting Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam in Spain this Saturday? I would be amazed if he lasted more than 6 rounds.

Henno30 · 11-12-2013 5:28pm

Johner wrote: »

Lee is a much better boxer than Macklin but Lee is lacking a few key things to make it at the very top level. He is a lovely boxer though. Macklin is decent but with nothing that really stands out, he's solid in everything he does but thats about it.

Doesn't have a solid defence unfortunately. Don't know why Steward never addressed that.

Henno30 · 11-12-2013 5:31pm

Johner wrote: »

Speaking of middleweights did anyone see Anthony Fitzgerald is fighting Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam in Spain this Saturday? I would be amazed if he lasted more than 6 rounds.

Poor N'Dam got absolutely shafted by his last manager. The guy gave N'Dam a fake contract to sign which guaranteed him a rematch with Quillin, and then forged his signature in the real contract with GBP. Crazy stuff. He's signed with Hyde now which is why he's facing Fitzgerald I presume.

Johner · 11-12-2013 5:34pm

Henno30 wrote: »

Poor N'Dam got absolutely shafted by his last manager. The guy gave N'Dam a fake contract to sign which guaranteed him a rematch with Quillin, and then forged his signature in the real contract with GBP. Crazy stuff. He's signed with Hyde now which is why he's facing Fitzgerald I presume.

Didn't know that about him, thats bad form! I just saw he was with Hyde, hopefully things work out for him as I remember against Quillin he was knocked down about 7 times during the fight but never ever gave up, he gained a fan that night!

Johner · 11-12-2013 5:41pm

Not a bad batch that came from the Middleweight 2004 Olympics!

N'Dam, Lee, Golovkin, Dirrell, Pascal, Angulo! And none of them won gold. :pac:

Henno30 · 11-12-2013 6:03pm

Johner wrote: »

Not a bad batch that came from the Middleweight 2004 Olympics!

N'Dam, Lee, Golovkin, Dirrell, Pascal, Angulo! And none of them won gold. :pac:

Was a really strong class alright. Guys like Despaigne, Balzoy, Mashkin, and Gaydarbekov were very good as well. I'm not sure there's been another Olympic weight class in recent times that produced so many well known fighters.

Charlie George · 11-12-2013 7:50pm

Henno30 wrote: »

I was going to disagree with you but I see the Transnational Rankings Org have him at #10 so fair enough. He's just barely top 10 though to be honest. I wouldn't have him there personally. I don't have anything against him, I'd love to see him do well, but he just hasn't been impressive in a long time.

Andy is ranked no 7 with WBC,not too bad I think.

gene_tunney · 11-12-2013 8:43pm

Johner wrote: »

Not a bad batch that came from the Middleweight 2004 Olympics!

N'Dam, Lee, Golovkin, Dirrell, Pascal, Angulo! And none of them won gold. :pac:

Gaydarbekov, the gold medallist, didn't even go pro!

Henno30 · 11-12-2013 9:22pm

For the sake of balance, Lee does have an excellent straight left and a good right hook. He's a very good puncher in technical terms.

Charlie George · 28-03-2014 1:08am

pac_man wrote: »

He's fighting on a Hearn bill and it was mentioned that there's a possibility that he might be moving down in weight to light middle. If it's true, its a strange move and one in which, I'm not convinced will be a success. Surely a guy that has known stamina issues is going to find it tougher when he has to drop more weight?

It will also highlight the missed opportunity of making the big fights against the other British/Irish middleweights.

Seems strange indeed,with his height one would think a move up to super would be a better option,we will just have to wait and see.

magma69 · 28-03-2014 5:47pm

gene_tunney wrote: »

Gaydarbekov, the gold medallist, didn't even go pro!

Probably thought he couldn't get a following in Russia with a name like Gaydarbek Gaydarbekov!:p

magma69 · 28-03-2014 5:48pm

I have no idea how he's going to make 154 without draining himself. It screams desperation imo.

Charlie George · 31-03-2014 2:48pm

Andy has 2 fights planned for the next few weeks,in a few weeks time in Denmark and 3 weeks after that in Cardiff,keeping busy for a big one ahead.

Henno30 · 02-04-2014 11:40pm

He looks fragile to me at 160, but yeah I don't know how a 29 year old career middleweight is going to cope with an extra six lbs of a cut. On top of that, middleweight is as weak now as it has been in a long time. If you can't make it there, maybe you can't make it anywhere.

Johnnythefox4 · 03-04-2014 2:31pm

He looks pretty ripped here. Best shape I've ever seen him in

https://twitter.com/boxingbooth/status/451447533253181440/photo/1

gene_tunney · 03-04-2014 2:47pm

Henno30 wrote: »

He looks fragile to me at 160, but yeah I don't know how a 29 year old career middleweight is going to cope with an extra six lbs of a cut. On top of that, middleweight is as weak now as it has been in a long time. If you can't make it there, maybe you can't make it anywhere.

This concept of someone looking weak at a certain weight necessitating moving up weight is absolute rubbish. You fight at the lowest weight you can make it's that simple. If he looks fragile at 160 and he can make 154 then he should damn well stay at 154

walshb · 03-04-2014 3:00pm

gene_tunney wrote: »

This concept of someone looking weak at a certain weight necessitating moving up weight is absolute rubbish. You fight at the lowest weight you can make it's that simple. If he looks fragile at 160 and he can make 154 then he should damn well stay at 154

It's not rubbish at all. Of course, many fighters try to fight at the lowest weight possible, but in doing so there is a fine line between being fit and ready at the weight and being weakened. It is a very tight line. Looking weak and being weak are two different things. If Lee was finding 160 lbs difficult to make, then getting to 154 lbs at this stage of his career is surely going to weaken him? Remember he had several pro fights where he was above 160 lbs. In 2004 Lee was weighing up to 75 kgs. Now, 8 years later he is trying to get to 69 kgs?

Frankie Lee · 03-04-2014 10:32pm

In fairness it is this sort of stuff that Adam Booth specialises in and if he shows any sort of form at 154 there are some very lucrative fights available.

Henno30 · 03-04-2014 11:16pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

In fairness it is this sort of stuff that Adam Booth specialises in and if he shows any sort of form at 154 there are some very lucrative fights available.

You think? Against who?

Too Tough To Die · 04-04-2014 12:55am

Henno30 wrote: »

You think? Against who?

Money May

unknown13 · 06-04-2014 9:23pm

Henno30 wrote: »

You think? Against who?

Canelo and Cotto in New York

Henno30 · 06-04-2014 10:15pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Money May

unknown13 wrote: »

Canelo and Cotto in New York

Lol

magma69 · 09-04-2014 1:32pm

He's fighting Horta, the French guy that gave Dean Byrne his first loss.

magma69 · 12-04-2014 5:58pm

Lee won by a mixed decision. He was brutal. He's a gatekeeper at best a this stage. Shame.

Halloween Jack · 12-04-2014 6:05pm

magma69 wrote: »

Lee won by a mixed decision. He was brutal. He's a gatekeeper at best a this stage. Shame.

Not surprised, I saw photos of him on twitter earlier and he looked skeletal, hope this 154 stuff can be written off as a failed experiment

magma69 · 12-04-2014 6:12pm

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Not surprised, I saw photos of him on twitter earlier and he looked skeletal, hope this 154 stuff can be written off as a failed experiment

Tbh, I think his problems lie beyond his poor physical condition. He hasn't looked impressive in years.

Johnnythefox4 · 12-04-2014 6:30pm

Did he deserve the decision?

magma69 · 12-04-2014 6:35pm

Johnnythefox4 wrote: »

Did he deserve the decision?

I only saw the last four rounds and I honestly could only give him one. Lee took a hiding and was in trouble at the end. The neutral crowd were booing at the decision. He probably didn't deserve it.

Andy Lee

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