Do people marry within their class in Ireland?

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 1:41am #1

Do people in Ireland tend to marry within their "class". I know class in Ireland is ill defined but you rarely get a doctor or solicitor married to someone from a working class background. Class in England is a major topic of discussion but it doesn't seem as relevant in an Irish context.

Is this because we were mainly an agricultural society, is class in Ireland more clearly defined in the cities with a history of industrial development rather than in more rural areas?

El Guapo! · 24-11-2012 1:42am

No.
I went to an all boys school.

Lyaiera · 24-11-2012 1:43am

Dean09 wrote: »

No.
I went to an all boys school.

We really don't need another thread about this. :P

Hippies! · 24-11-2012 1:50am

Yes.

Spiritual · 24-11-2012 1:52am

I forgot about class and got myself a nice country girl.

*I really hope she gets the farm

:pac:

DrumSteve · 24-11-2012 1:52am

Everyone hates each other equally in Ireland, so class isnt as much of a deal as it used to be.

Besides your class aint defined by your bank balance.

Difference Engine · 24-11-2012 1:55am

Travellers do. Usually 6th class.

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Fluorescence · 24-11-2012 1:56am

I don't think Irish people, generally, think in terms of class.

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 1:56am

DrumSteve wrote: »

Besides your class aint defined by your bank balance.

That's the point it is an arbitrary undefined concept that marks someone for life as either being good stock, decent or scumbag.

Lyaiera · 24-11-2012 1:59am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That's the point it is an arbitrary undefined concept that marks someone for life as either being good stock, decent or scumbag.

That's unfair. Just because someone inherited a load of money, land and business doesn't necessarily make them a scumbag.

Stained Class · 24-11-2012 2:00am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That's the point it is an arbitrary undefined concept that marks someone for life as either being good stock, decent or scumbag.

Pretty good definition right there.

Ireland is fairly parochial that way.

Difference Engine · 24-11-2012 2:01am

Fluorescence wrote: »

I don't think Irish people, generally, think in terms of class.

I'd say Irish people think in terms of income. We are all supposed to be middle class now but I think what they mean is middle income.

DrumSteve · 24-11-2012 2:04am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

That's the point it is an arbitrary undefined concept that marks someone for life as either being good stock, decent or scumbag.

I getcha, I mean I come from what would be termed a rough area but I wouldnt class a lot of the people I know as scum.

You can rob a bank with a pen as easily as a gun.

Fluorescence · 24-11-2012 2:06am

Difference Engine wrote: »

I'd say Irish people think in terms of income. We are all supposed to be middle class now but I think what they mean is middle income.

I'd broadly agree with that. I'd also add in education - lots of matches where both partners have a similar level. Perhaps that's just because a lot of people hook up in college though.

Stained Class · 24-11-2012 2:08am

Difference Engine wrote: »

I'd say Irish people think in terms of income. We are all supposed to be middle class now but I think what they mean is middle income.

I disagree.

I think Irish people marry each other on shared values moreso than monetary income.

Difference Engine · 24-11-2012 2:16am

Stained Class wrote: »

I disagree.

I think Irish people marry each other on shared values moreso than monetary income.

I just meant when Irish people think of class not the reasons for marrying.

When you hear about the struggling middle classes, we really mean people on middle incomes. That includes occupations outside the normal middle class professions these days, anything from factory operatives to tradesmen.

We tend to associate class with how much we earn rather than how we earn it now.

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 2:26am

Going to college probably has been the great leveler, as Fluorescence said a lot of people who go to college end up meeting their future partner through contacts in college. But you don't get a huge number of college educated/non college educated marriages.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 2:37am

College doesn't define class, I know that from my experience. They let anyone in these days.

My father came from good stock, his mother was a doctors daughter and his father a solicitor. He married a cattle dealer's daughter, my mother. Her father with no formal education was a seriously good businessman and had the money to send his two daughters and son to fee paying schools.

My father followed his father into the legal profession and I followed him. Today the both of us run a practice together. I've said to him before if we could start over again we'd be cattle dealers. The money ain't in small practices anymore.

WoollyRedHat · 24-11-2012 2:45am

DrumSteve wrote: »

I getcha, I mean I come from what would be termed a rough area but I wouldnt class a lot of the people I know as scum.

You can rob a bank with a pen as easily as a gun.

You'd look a bit ridiciolous trying to rob a bank with a pen that's chained down.

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 2:46am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

College doesn't define class, I know that from my experience. They let anyone in these days.

My father came from good stock, his mother was a doctors daughter and his father a solicitor. He married a cattle dealer's daughter, my mother. Her father with no formal education was a seriously good businessman and had the money to send his two daughters and son to fee paying schools.

My father followed his father into the legal profession and I followed him. Today the both of us run a practice together. I've said to him before if we could start over again we'd be cattle dealers. The money ain't in small practices anymore.

Thats interesting. But the very fact that they let anyone into college these days as you say means that the chances of a college educated person marrying a non college educated person are greatly reduced. Of my married friends in the mid thirties age group I can think of no college graduate who has married a non college graduate.

nbar12 · 24-11-2012 2:49am

my sister married a very wealthy man from a wealthy family 12 months ago. She told me she wants to divorce him so she can get half of everything €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and travel the world! Smart girl!

DrumSteve · 24-11-2012 2:50am

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

You'd look a bit ridiciolous trying to rob a bank with a pen that's chained down.

True, but its mightier than the sword. Gotta count for summit.

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 2:52am

DrumSteve wrote: »

True, but its mightier than the sword. Gotta count for summit.

The penis is mightier than the pen is.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 2:55am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Thats interesting. But the very fact that they let anyone into college these days as you say means that the chances of a college educated person marrying a non college educated person are greatly reduced. Of my married friends in the mid thirties age group I can think of no college graduate who has married a non college graduate.

I didn't mean that to come across as arrogant or nasty. I was just highlighting the fact that in our society today being college educated seems to define one's class. Two of the greatest businessmen I can think of Bill Gates and Richard Branson never obtained undergraduate degrees, in Branson's case he didn't even finish secondary school.

Some wonderful people came from nothing, good breeding and stock doesn't always factor.

DrumSteve · 24-11-2012 2:55am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The penis is mightier than the pen is.

Ive never been stabbed in the cock with a pen, so we can agree to disagree on that.

Spiritual · 24-11-2012 2:56am

GAA people in my town all seem to have hooked up. Mostly the one's that have land.
Never could understand why all these people went and married the first girl they slept with. Now I understand it, it's for medals and land.

SafeSurfer · 24-11-2012 2:58am

Spiritual wrote: »

GAA people in my town all seem to have hooked up. Mostly the one's that have land.
Never could understand why all these people went and married the first girl they slept with. Now I understand it, it's for medals and land.

You mean slept with the first girl they married.

Spiritual · 24-11-2012 3:05am

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You mean slept with the first girl they married.

Nope, stuck it in. Then straight up the aisle.

Jimoslimos · 24-11-2012 3:05am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I didn't mean that to come across as arrogant or nasty. I was just highlighting the fact that in our society today being college educated seems to define one's class. Two of the greatest businessmen I can think of Bill Gates and Richard Branson never obtained undergraduate degrees, in Branson's case he didn't even finish secondary school.

Some wonderful people came from nothing, good breeding and stock doesn't always factor.

In fairness Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, which would indicate a certain level of privilege. As for Branson, I think he came from an upper-middle class background (His father was a barrister).

So yes, a college education doesn't define class - but it does help to define it for your kids.

Eathrin · 24-11-2012 3:12am

If personality matches, I think it's more likely you are of a similar class or ambition, hence attraction.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 3:26am

Jimoslimos wrote: »

In fairness Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard, which would indicate a certain level of privilege. As for Branson, I think he came from an upper-middle class background (His father was a barrister).

So yes, a college education doesn't define class - but it does help to define it for your kids.

It may but the kid's won't always follow their parents. Now creates the question of what defines class, going by the old British standard those who are born to a middle/upper class family inherit this no matter what they do in life, like wise the working classes may feel the same way, Noel Gallagher is a multi millionaire but he still sees himself as working class, it's a state of mind he says.

So lets take someone like Lord Alan Sugar who despite being Jewish came from nothing, he become a billionaire over the course of his career but is still is looked down on in the House of Lords because of his upbringing.

parc · 24-11-2012 4:32am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I didn't mean that to come across as arrogant or nasty. I was just highlighting the fact that in our society today being college educated seems to define one's class. Two of the greatest businessmen I can think of Bill Gates and Richard Branson never obtained undergraduate degrees, in Branson's case he didn't even finish secondary school.

Some wonderful people came from nothing, good breeding and stock doesn't always factor.

lol

Bill Gates coming from nothing. His dad was a bigshot lawyer and his dad was a big finance guy. His mother had a director role in finance.

His parents were rich enough to send him to Harvard and rich enough to support him when he dropped out.

Gates was upper middle class

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-11-2012 5:01am

parc wrote: »

lol

Bill Gates coming from nothing. His dad was a bigshot lawyer and his dad was a big finance guy. His mother had a director role in finance.

His parents were rich enough to send him to Harvard and rich enough to support him when he dropped out.

Gates was upper middle class

You're missing the point, I've already discussed the inheritance of class in my last post.

I used Gates as an example of somebody who succeeded in life without a college degree.

WoollyRedHat · 24-11-2012 2:30pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

True, but its mightier than the sword. Gotta count for summit.

Thats true too, and you'd have a mighty hard time brining the sword down to the bank in the first place. It's not actually easy to conceal.

goose2005 · 24-11-2012 4:37pm

Spiritual wrote: »

GAA people in my town all seem to have hooked up. Mostly the one's that have land.
Never could understand why all these people went and married the first girl they slept with. Now I understand it, it's for medals and land.

And to breed a decent team for the 2032 senior championship.

Shenshen · 24-11-2012 5:02pm

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do people in Ireland tend to marry within their "class". I know class in Ireland is ill defined but you rarely get a doctor or solicitor married to someone from a working class background. Class in England is a major topic of discussion but it doesn't seem as relevant in an Irish context.

Is this because we were mainly an agricultural society, is class in Ireland more clearly defined in the cities with a history of industrial development rather than in more rural areas?

I'm a German living in Ireland, and married an Englishman. i've got a university degree, he finished college.
I've no idea what class either of us would be.

gizmo555 · 24-11-2012 5:12pm

nbar12 wrote: »

my sister married a very wealthy man from a wealthy family 12 months ago. She told me she wants to divorce him so she can get half of everything €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and travel the world! Smart girl!

My sister got lucky, married a yuppie
Took him for all he was worth
Now she's a swinger dating a singer
I can't decide which is worse

Tom Petty, "Yer So Bad"

T-K-O · 24-11-2012 5:17pm

You marry those in your social circle. For most people I dont believe class is an issue

RADIUS · 24-11-2012 5:33pm

Class is a foreign idea to a lot of Irish people. I believe Irish society is much more of a meritocracy with an unhealthy mix of nepotism, and the occasional person with delusions of grandeur because they live in a certain area or have parents from a certain background.

Galwayguy35 · 24-11-2012 5:36pm

Not sure I agree with the idea that people who went to college will only go out with/marry others with the same level of education as all my former partners had college degrees and I had none.

rainbowtrout · 24-11-2012 6:51pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

You're missing the point, I've already discussed the inheritance of class in my last post.

I used Gates as an example of somebody who succeeded in life without a college degree.

That's not the point though. Gates had the financial backing of his family to allow him to succeed without a college degree and clearly had the intelligence to go to college or to make it without a college education. There are plenty of people who have neither the finances to go to college or ability to gain entry to a course in the first place. Many people are limited academically and on leaving school work in low paid, unskilled jobs their whole lives and are unlikely to marry someone with a college education etc...

If you compare someone who fits into this category with Gates they are vastly different.

Sorcha16 · 24-11-2012 7:08pm

Just marry a teacher, they always got class!

Red Hand · 24-11-2012 7:17pm

Yes, I think people would marry within their class or not too far away from it. By class, I mean, a generally similar background-both income and socially based, and general outlook/aspirational. Nothing wrong with that either, I mean people usually marry people that they have thigs in common with each other.

Marcin_diy · 24-11-2012 7:18pm

nbar12 wrote: »

my sister married a very wealthy man from a wealthy family 12 months ago. She told me she wants to divorce him so she can get half of everything €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and travel the world! Smart girl!

Some people would call it prostitution.
Are you proud of your sister?

MMAGirl · 24-11-2012 7:31pm

I grew up in a poor family in a council estate.
No way would I have married someone from a similar background.
Not that I have anything against them, but I just want to climb higher in life than where I started. Most of my friends from there and school friends are still there and married to idiots with no ambition.
When I decided to go to Uni and live on spuds for 3 years, they all laughed at me and said i would be better off with Danno next door because at least he had a bar job (noone else had a job) and have babies and if he lost the job just get social welfare and a house.
Would I tell my friends that though. NOOOOOOO. They'd knife me.

gerryo777 · 24-11-2012 7:34pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

I getcha, I mean I come from what would be termed a rough area but I wouldnt class a lot of the people I know as scum.

You can rob a bank with a pen as easily as a gun.

It's the banks robbing the people we need to be worried about!

BraziliaNZ · 24-11-2012 7:45pm

I think they do yeah. For e.g. these new swathes of rugby following Southside women, they're out looking for Fiachra who went to Blackrock College, they're hardly going to marry Anto the mechanic from Finglas. It just wont happen! Same goes for men too though, people all over the world tend to stick to their own.

T-K-O · 24-11-2012 7:48pm

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I think they do yeah. For e.g. these new swathes of rugby following Southside women, they're out looking for Fiachra who went to Blackrock College, they're hardly going to marry Anto the mechanic from Finglas. It just wont happen! Same goes for men too though, people all over the world tend to stick to their own.

Anto will be at the football watching man utd.

You can't marry someone if you do not socialise with them.

People who believe they are a class above are a tiny minority.

Jezek · 24-11-2012 8:13pm

I'm not from Ireland - I think that puts me in a class of my own! I mean people here have no idea about how much money my parents have, so don't know what to file me under.

I've no job (student) so can't be defined by that either.

previous user · 25-11-2012 11:30pm

nbar12 wrote: »

my sister married a very wealthy man from a wealthy family 12 months ago. She told me she wants to divorce him so she can get half of everything €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ and travel the world! Smart girl!

so she only married him from the money, that's pretty disgusting imo.

Geri Male · 25-11-2012 11:45pm

Do people still marry for intercourse?

Do people marry within their class in Ireland?

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