Better equipment for the Gardai

TheNog · 09-12-2007 12:07am #1

We all know the equipment we have and the equipment we should have. The radioes, cars, protective equipment, facilities etc. The list is endless.

I want to know what ideas members serving and retired would suggest. Just looking at the English police and the stuff they have is far better than ours.

Has the Gardai been starved of cash for too long?

My two cents is for the roll-out of the a digital system asap. I don't know how many times the radioes have failed, even the radio in the station fails a couple of times a day. Having said that I have heard of problems with the system the English Police have in members getting sick from using it.
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2119506/uk-police-sick-tetra-handsets

The Ford Focus cars are a bloody joke. The car's 1.4l engine is simply not up to the job of any type of intercept. The Mondeo while a good car is pretty much a family car with no facilities to hold a violent prisoner. It seems that the only restraint a prisoner can be put under is a garda sitting on him/her. Didnt BMW offer to build purpose-built cars for our use and it was turned down?

Its a bit futurist but could be up to the job
http://horsepowersports.com/purpose-built-police-car-from-carbon-motors-and-lotus/

kopparberg · 09-12-2007 12:51am

uniforms, computers, email, lockers, firearm ranges, driver training, armed assistance. lack of public order vans, mace, rigid handcuffs, detective training, the list goes on an on its strange that other changes can be brought in overnight in some cases but items that the general membership have demanded for years can be talked about, studied, put on trial, reported on again, anothe study, then a costing, then tender and a date set to issue to the membership and a year or two later here we go. it cant be that difficult in these days of international standards ( human rights, accountability and training to degree level (all of which im in favour of)) are implemented without much debate if its the done thing we must do it to remain a top police service???? but these other services we adspire to copy for some reasn have all the items and courses listed above as standard but an garda siochana have to wait and see to see it it can be done without.

in addition " a time for change" appilies only to rank and file. officers talk the talk but when the chips are down its all the way it was and look after the lads.

i almost forgot a fair promotion system. and a merit based ststem for appointment to specilised units.

sure i forgot something

timmywex · 09-12-2007 10:57am

the government always rant on about road safety, but alot of stations dont have anything to do anything about road safety, i know of some garda stations that dont have speed guns, and these serve anything up to 30000 people!! with no traffic corps covering the area

also, anpr is a must, and quickly.
go look at the london met website, then at the garda website, they shouldnt even be compared.

kopparboerg mentioned firearms ranges, they currently bring sheets or bottles or other to a quarry and shoot at them for a while

civdef · 09-12-2007 12:55pm

they currently bring sheets or bottles or other to a quarry and shoot at them for a while

Got a source for that?

civdef · 09-12-2007 1:39pm

What is strange is when in an expert report the Garda Inspectorate makes recommendations that defensive spray be issued to all members in the interests of safety, the commissioner simply overrules this based on what he perceives public opinion to be ?

Shield · 09-12-2007 2:05pm

timmywex wrote: »

they currently bring sheets or bottles or other to a quarry and shoot at them for a while

Using bottles? For a 5 metre shoot? BOTTLES?

I'd also like to know where you heard this from. I met plenty of Gardai in Belfast doing their firearms training in PSNI facilities.

timmywex · 09-12-2007 2:21pm

souce; ive been on location when its done, this was a year ago, they had the target range sheet things, im not sure now about the eru or detectives in dublin, but certainly in the south east, im fairly sure it remains the same, will find out.

sunnyjim · 09-12-2007 5:26pm

civdef wrote: »

What is strange is when in an expert report the Garda Inspectorate makes recommendations that defensive spray be issued to all members in the interests of safety, the commissioner simply overrules this based on what he perceives public opinion to be ?

Now that the oulfella is gone, it might be brought in - Fachtna was involved in a lot of new set-ups within the GS, with Admin and the CAB - maybe he's not afraid of change like Conroy was.

TheNog · 10-12-2007 3:54am

sunnyjim wrote: »

Now that the oulfella is gone, it might be brought in - Fachtna was involved in a lot of new set-ups within the GS, with Admin and the CAB - maybe he's not afraid of change like Conroy was.

I was thinking the same thing. It seemed to me that Noel was a yes man of McDowells. When I saw him on TV he didn't give the impression of a real leader,you know impression of someone who can make the hard decisions no matter what the consequences as long as they were the right ones.

I'm new to the job with only 6 months done but I'm already dumb struck with the lack of proper equipment in the job. On my first day I was SO and I was greeted by the sight of the station radio which I first saw in the early 1980's when my dad was in the force. This thing or should I say dinosaur is older than I am and I'm 31 yrs old. Every now and then young fellas broadcast abuse at us over the radio. I've heard that the new TETRA system as been approved since July '07 and only the contracts have to be signed but apparently they are dragging their feet. I will feel alot safer when we get the digital in.

Also when i started the district patrol car had been crashed a week before so we were using a Ford Focus for three months. Like I mean how the hell can you properly patrol a district in a 1.4l car. It meant we couldn't catch any speeding or dangerous motorist. We were actually responding to an urgent assistance call 35km away and the cars top speed was 150kph!!!! The only other car available to us at the time was the DDU car which is also a 1.4l car. It is unbelieveable. Who ever approved the Focus as a patrol should be shot balls of their own sh**e. However now that we have the mondeo back we also have an unmarked subaru forester for anvil which is a great improvement. Those subarus really can shift.

The uniform is a bit of a joke alright. I have had all my trousers re-stitched at the groin area cos they always burst, the garda emblem on my vest has worn off after only 3 months use. One night we went to a house in an estate where the alarm was going off. As I was coming around from the back of house the SO rang me to say the next door neighbour saw a man coming round from the back of the house. THAT WAS ME!!!!! But of course she couldn't have known cos the emblem was gone on the vest. On leaving the college I was given a torch that has great light for any near objects but completely useless long distance. I had to buy the maglite in the shop for €50.

I am most curious of the ASPs. They are lethal things and what interests me most is what will happen to a member who accidently hits a fella say on the knee or ankle and smashes the bone. Who is going to pay for compensation? and will that member be blocked? Only time will tell.

timmywex · 10-12-2007 6:10pm

TheNog,

have you trained in asp's yet?? they are vicious things but if someone is resisting arrest, then am i right to say force can be used, how far the force goes is another thing,but the garda may feel he is defending himself either, these bats are used world wide so i suppose they have been tetsed for that kinda thing, damm hard to close as well!!

Shield · 10-12-2007 6:25pm

The ASPs are alright if you know how to use them properly. Even just the noise of it extending is enough to stop some people dead in their tracks. Plus, it looks better than the old leg of a table that you are currently issued with.

source · 10-12-2007 7:33pm

I always thought the gardai used the the army pistol ranges, at least they, do in Kilworth and Gormanston

DublinWriter · 10-12-2007 8:10pm

kopparberg wrote: »

in addition " a time for change" appilies only to rank and file. officers talk the talk but when the chips are down its all the way it was and look after the lads.

By 'officers' I presume you mean Supers and up?

You have to remember that an appointment to the Rank of Superintendent still remains a political appointment; it still has to be individually approved by the Government.

At that stage in your career, you are not going to rock the boat.

It took the death of a young member in Raheny by stabbing a few years ago to get the stab-vests 'fast-tracked'. Even up until very recently, the uniform was still circa-1922 with that impractical heavy woolen-tunic.

ScubaDave · 10-12-2007 10:56pm

TheNog, i have one of those torchs, and i can tell you that they are 10 times better than standard mag lites! Can i recommend new batteries!?

TheNog · 11-12-2007 5:01am

timmywex wrote: »

TheNog,

have you trained in asp's yet?? they are vicious things but if someone is resisting arrest, then am i right to say force can be used, how far the force goes is another thing,but the garda may feel he is defending himself either, these bats are used world wide so i suppose they have been tetsed for that kinda thing, damm hard to close as well!!

I was trained in the college with asp. they are a great comfort to have and I've already had to use mine on one fella. Fortunately i hit him on the upper arm with it but at least he didn't get back up until i told him to. " SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!!!!!!!"

I have heard that an asp was broken when a member was smashing the windscreen of a car. Must be a strong lad.

TheNog · 11-12-2007 5:04am

ScubaDave wrote: »

TheNog, i have one of those torchs, and i can tell you that they are 10 times better than standard mag lites! Can i recommend new batteries!?

I have a 3 cell maglite which i find does the business. Batteries are a pain cos the standard ones in the local shops don't last very long. The batteries I got with the torch were brilliant and lasted ages. Unfortunatley I don't remember the type of battery they were.

If anyone could recommend a good battery type please let me know

CLADA · 11-12-2007 10:04am

Just for your own information there Nog, ASP do an excellent torch that fits in the palm of your hand. For its size it is far superior to anything maglite are making.
And now that you have the ASP baton the maglite no longer needs to double up as a weapon of defence:D

Hagar · 11-12-2007 10:10am

There are LED versions of the Maglite torches available. Less likely to break a bulb if dropped etc. Helps battery life too I think.

vasch_ro · 11-12-2007 11:44am

TheNog wrote: »

I'm new to the job with only 6 months done but I'm already dumb struck with the lack of proper equipment in the job.

IThe uniform is a bit of a joke alright.

I am most curious of the ASPs. They are lethal things and what interests me most is what will happen to a member who accidently hits a fella say on the knee or ankle and smashes the bone. Who is going to pay for compensation? and will that member be blocked? Only time will tell.

i have a little more service than yourself and i think the equipment is getting better and better, I agree the radio system is in dire need of overhaul ,but since the inspectorate came in things have changed and will change further, we now have stab vests/ and asps and the word on the street is that pepper spray/mace is only a matter of time as well as rigid handcuffs. the new students have been issued with LED torches. So just give it a little time ,the glass is always half full mate !!

Re the Uniform;I like the new version, (ie the fleece etc ) far superior to the old jumper and I believe a revised version of the jacket is on the way, I have been isseud with new boots and the are great, very comfortable, goretex lined and good support.

Once anyone can show that their response when using the asp was considered and resaonable compared to the amount of force being used against them, then all should be okay, I actuall y know someone that broke a fella's leg and so far so good as everything was lawful and just. using a maglite is a guranteed way to end up in court and should never be condoned by anyone.

DMC2005 · 12-12-2007 4:32pm

TheNog wrote: »

We were actually responding to an urgent assistance call 35km away and the cars top speed was 150kph!!!! The only other car available to us at the time was the DDU car which is also a 1.4l car. It is unbelieveable.

Thats close on 100mph .... What speed would you have liked to be going at?

Any faster sounds like a signifigant danger to other road users to me.....

TheNog · 12-12-2007 6:00pm

It was at 3am in the morning so no other traffic, the road was straight in many places with a good surface and the call was for an urgent assistance. Also the driver was an ex-traffic man so has been trained to drive at those speeds. He drove at excessive (over the limit) but not an unsafe speed.

Anyway try to overtake other vehicles in a 1.4l car with sirens and lights on and the road users don't see or hear you.It creates a danger to you and the other road users plus slower respond time all for saving a few of grand in the purchase but the fuel economy of the Focus is dire compared to the Mondeo. The point I'm trying to make is for a better car to respond to emergency calls quicker and safer.

100mph is not that fast in a higher powered car which has better handling and grip on the road. I was once in a mondeo travelling at 140mph on a motorway, now that was scary.

DMC2005 · 12-12-2007 6:50pm

TheNog wrote: »

It was at 3am in the morning so no other traffic, the road was straight in many places with a good surface

Its amazing how often the story of a crash begins with a sentence like that. Sadly its often followed by "he came out of nowhere".

TheNog wrote: »

try to overtake other vehicles in a 1.4l car with sirens and lights on and the road users don't see or hear you.It creates a danger to you and the other road users.

So its a danger to other road users when you overtake, but perfectly safe for everyone when you drive at 100mph???

TheNog · 12-12-2007 7:10pm

DMC2005 wrote: »

Its amazing how often the story of a crash begins with a sentence like that. Sadly its often followed by "he came out of nowhere".

So its a danger to other road users when you overtake, but perfectly safe for everyone when you drive at 100mph???

I think you are missing the point here. All road users, including myself are pretty much untrained drivers whereas the driver I was with was a highly trained and skilled driver. Believe me I have a young family and want to get home safely to them so if I didnt feel confident in his driving ability then I would have asked him to slow down a bit.

When driving at 100mph there are risks involved but it is how you manage those risks and limit them as much as possible that makes the difference between a skilled driver and an unskilled driver. In our jobs there is always a certain amount of risk it is how you deal with that risk that can ensure your safety.

DMC2005 · 12-12-2007 8:13pm

What I'm suggesting is a policy similar to that implemented in Australia where certain vehicles are not allowed exceed certain limits.

For example a police van would not be permitted break speed limits at all. A focus would be limited to 120. A mondeo would be limited to 150 and their dedicated traffic cars would be permitted to exceed 150 only when their most highly qualified drivers are at the wheel.

This avoids the problem of police drivers getting an adrenalin rush and losing their sense of judgement.

Down under that driver would be severly reprimanded for that speed in a focus - its not safe to do 100mph in a focus no matter who is at the wheel.

Shield · 12-12-2007 8:38pm

DMC2005 wrote: »

its not safe to do 100mph in a focus no matter who is at the wheel.

There are experts over at the motors forum that may have a different view on this comment. I see the point you are making though, and it is very valid.

The problem is that we don't live in an ideal world. Crime doesn't happen when the right vehicle is in the right place at the right time. That puts us in a lose/lose situation. Give chase in what's available with the highest trained driver we have available, or have the media slam us for doing nothing, or not doing enough to catch the suspect.

All it takes is 1 eye witness to suggest we didn't do enough, and the media circus begins.

On the other hand, all it takes is 1 eye witness to suggest we were going too fast in the wrong type of vehicle, and the media circus begins.

CLADA · 12-12-2007 8:45pm

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Shield · 12-12-2007 8:49pm

Thanks for the Theodore Roosevelt quote there CLADA.

JonAnderton · 12-12-2007 8:53pm

Looking for a good torch, try the Surefire range. A lot of us over here (London Met) have replaced the old maglites with them...

As for Airwave. If they didn't have the ability to make private person-to-person calls or phone calls, they'd be totally sh***

CLADA · 12-12-2007 8:55pm

Yeah! I'm particularly fond of the first seven words.:D

Shield · 12-12-2007 10:17pm

Bulb life on the surefire products isn't that great I've found. Although I've yet to find something better out there. Maglite is just too oldschool these days.

JonAnderton · 12-12-2007 10:42pm

yeah, the surefire burn out after a short while... Not really good for longterm illumination but as you say, maglites are old school... Can't hold a candle to the surefires

Do you see what I did there... Surefires, maglites, holding candles..oh, forget it...lol

Shield · 12-12-2007 10:45pm

That's 2 penalty points on your sense-of-humour licence.

JonAnderton wrote: »

yeah, the surefire burn out after a short while... Not really good for longterm illumination but as you say, maglites are old school... Can't hold a candle to the surefires

Do you see what I did there... Surefires, maglites, holding candles..oh, forget it...lol

the locust · 12-12-2007 11:21pm

"On leaving the college I was given a torch that has great light for any near objects but completely useless long distance. I had to buy the maglite in the shop for €50"

New recruits leaving Templemore are given LED Lenser torches which are proven to out perform the maglites any day, they are a big improvement and because they are LED not filament they don't use as much energy so the batteries last longer.

As with regards to the ASP your ass is covered to drive that thing through someone when swinging it. As you are aware the asp could easily smash a knee etc...

You are only in danger if your hit the head. You have to justify that the force used was proportionate, but you would only ever draw the baton on someone who was aggressive/non compliant anyways. If you broke a leg with the asp id say the member would be covered if the person was violent, its the governments choice to issue them - so be it.

My beef with the asp is that anyone who has any degree of combat training/martial arts could take it off the average guard in a tussle. And a dangerous criminal isn't going to care if they crack you over the head. The asp has no strap to hold it in the users hand.

Personally I'd be in favor of pepper spray over the ASP...
Its not as harmful as CS or some of the other really chemical sprays... But it still has a good effect,

Give a violent drugged up thug a zap of spray and they will actually become the Guards best friend - begging and pleading the police officer for water/help

JonAnderton · 12-12-2007 11:25pm

ASP make an end cap with a lanyard. The Met started issuing them out about 4 years ago. Handy, but a lot of people take them off anyway.

If you all really wanted one, might be worth enquiring with the powers that be about getting them.

CLADA · 12-12-2007 11:55pm

the locust wrote: »

Personally I'd be in favor of pepper spray over the ASP...
Its not as harmful as CS or some of the other really chemical sprays... But it still has a good effect,

Give a violent drugged up thug a zap of spray and they will actually become the Guards best friend - begging and pleading the police officer for water/help

Don't believe that for one minute my friend, a violent drugged up thug will fight through OC (Oleresin Capsicum) spray long enough to do you plenty of damage, the spray is an irritant not an incapacitant.

Stick with the ASP.

Write to Santa for a TASER......The real incapacitant.

Shield · 13-12-2007 12:19am

Let's not forget that it also has no effect on 1 in 10 people out there. Wouldn't it be just your luck to get that 1 in 10, who takes it off you, and then returns the favour? :eek:

CLADA wrote: »

Don't believe that for one minute my friend, a violent drugged up thug will fight through OC (Oleresin Capsicum) spray long enough to do you plenty of damage, the spray is an irritant not an incapacitant.

Stick with the ASP.

Write to Santa for a TASER......The real incapacitant.

TheNog · 13-12-2007 8:17am

psni wrote: »

Let's not forget that it also has no effect on 1 in 10 people out there. Wouldn't it be just your luck to get that 1 in 10, who takes it off you, and then returns the favour? :eek:

I'd have a quick count of the crowd around me and pray i am the one in the other ten

:rolleyes:

TheNog · 13-12-2007 8:49am

JonAnderton wrote: »

Looking for a good torch, try the Surefire range. A lot of us over here (London Met) have replaced the old maglites with them...

As for Airwave. If they didn't have the ability to make private person-to-person calls or phone calls, they'd be totally sh***

Had a look at the surefire webpage and christ they are expensive

What's this about Airwave being crap? Whats the story there? Is O2 still running the company? I want more info, more I TELL YE

JonAnderton · 13-12-2007 4:51pm

I'm a firearms officer and the sooner Taser gets rolled out to more officers, the better... it's a bloody great bit of kit.

As for Airwave, where do i start. I think O2 still ruin, I mean run, it. The handsets seem to loose signal for no apparent reason, The job (i think) have it set that if you press to talk at the same time as someone else, you just get a long tone (the old met radios, if ytou held it for too long, you could cut over someone who was blahing on. The volume is rubbish, the batteries last just long enough to last a shift if used regulary...

CLADA · 13-12-2007 6:25pm

JonAnderton wrote: »

I'm a firearms officer and the sooner Taser gets rolled out to more officers, the better... it's a bloody great bit of kit.

Agreed and I think the bad publicity it gets is down to inappropriate use. American cops tasering people for traffic offences...etc. Even the Vancouver incident could have been dealt with by physical restraint.

Its worth noting that there are practically no such incidents on this side of the Atlantic, probably due to it being mainly on issue to specialist units across Europe.

The regulations governing its use by police in England and Ireland in tandem with the ECHR should prevent inappropriate use of the device, so I can't see the Saturday night drunks getting a zap anytime in the future.

JonAnderton · 13-12-2007 6:52pm

Up until last Monday, only AFO's (Authorised Firearms Officers) were allowed to carry the Taser as it could only be deplyed to designated Firearms situations and the user must have conventional firearms cover....

The rules have changed and now Taser's can be deployed at any suitable incident and is now considered just another tactical option/use of force.

The TSG (public order unit) have had a load of blokes trained up in it so it's use will be more widespread.

Hopefully this will be a good move...

msg11 · 14-12-2007 5:47pm

Some proper cars, a decent radio system..

Mutz · 16-12-2007 1:31am

DMC2005 wrote: »

Thats close on 100mph .... What speed would you have liked to be going at?

Any faster sounds like a signifigant danger to other road users to me.....

What he means is that a mondeo handles better than a focus at high speeds, therefore safer at those speeds when the need arises.

Wishlist

Cars
Cars need to be made standard - forget the competition laws as its down to safety. Standardise to Mondeo/Volvo S40/Vectra 1.8litre minimum. Forget smaller cars as they are just not safe or capable for the job. They need to be specially fitted with:

> Durable and simple siren and light control (seriously - some of the panels are rediculous! The new ones are fairly good but some old ones are still around)
> Built in Radio Panel (not attached somewhere down by your leg or under the handbreak!)
> Sufficient Emergency Lighting (extra lights on the front grille, front and rear quarter panels - you can't have too many lights for some people!)
> Onboard Computer for doing person (including photo's) and registration checks (this would increase productivity for patrols and reduce workload and dependency on the station or controller and also reduce radio chatter)
> Mobile Phone (Extremely important for communications - in fact invaluable - have cradle included instead of signing phones out on each shift and having the phones loose in the car and then loosing them)
> Soil proof rear seat for prisoners (like what the cops in the US have and put a cage to seperate the prisoner from front passengers (this would also protect gardai from malicious claims and will alllow violent prisoners to calm down while in transit to garda stations)
> On Board camera front and rear to protect Gardai from bull**** complaints
> Introduce driving courses while on training on phase 3. Whats the problem with introducing this? Its such a big problem - everyone should be able to drive and use a pushbike.

Uniform
Get Rid of the Shirts, ties, trousers and maybe change them for polo shirts or polo necks and combat trousers. Running after scum can really chafe!

Collar burn on the neck, split trousers, ripped shirts and ties torm off! Its a bit impractical.

Organisation
> Fair and transparent promotion and interview proceedures. Nepotism is still very much alive in the organisation. In my opinion and it is probably shared, I have seen many excellent Gardai get disillusioned when an Officers son/daughter (who may or may not be better suited) is chosen in their place.
> Officers who aren't afraid to make decisions. What a breath of fresh air it is to meet a kick ass Sergeant, Inspector or Superintendent who is not afraid to get stuck in with the lads.
> Schduled fitness tests. As the job is extremely demanding, this should be introduced. Allowances should be introduced as an incentive.

Technology
> Email please, please, please. Eliminate paper!
> Make PULSE Web Based - its so slow as it has to load onto the pc each time from the central location.
> Individually issued radios to members (sometimes been forced to go without! Imagine getting into a hairy situation in that case)
> Every prisoner gets photographed and fingerprinted. It would help in solving burglaries/ stolen cars/ criminal damage etc. these can then be fed directly into a database from the station! The current system is a nighmare where the above need to be submitted seperately to HQ
>

Buildings/Stations
Move away from the traditional station. Office buildings are far more suited. Most stations are overcapacity. No Guard has their own desk. Each Officer should have their own desk and pc to work from.

Weapons
Not in favour of firearms, however, the asp and spray seem to work very well. Its a really big deal when a baton is used, so i think we're still a long way away from guns - thank the gods!

Criticisms Welcome!

DMC2005 · 16-12-2007 3:42pm

Is there not a bit of a double standard here?

I suggested that something like a focus should never be expected to hit speeds of 150kmph because its just not safe. Yet everyone seemed to disagree with me and think that there was no problem at all.

Yet on the other hand people seem to want more powerfull cars and cite safety as the reason.

Either its safe to reach 150kmph in a 1.4L focus, in which case we don't really need to get bigger cars, or its not safe, in which case these small cars should not be taken to such high speed.

If the real difference here is driver training, then faster cars will cause more problems than it will solve.

timmywex · 16-12-2007 5:50pm

mutz, i agree with your diagnosis all but the uniform, but whatever, the cars are a matter or urgency, and change pulse so a reason for accesing a file doesnt need to be put in every time, much easier if anpr is ought in or the on board computers idea above

metman · 16-12-2007 6:08pm

Mutz wrote: »

Technology
> Email please, please, please. Eliminate paper!
> Make PULSE Web Based - its so slow as it has to load onto the pc each time from the central location.
> Individually issued radios to members (sometimes been forced to go without! Imagine getting into a hairy situation in that case)
> Every prisoner gets photographed and fingerprinted. It would help in solving burglaries/ stolen cars/ criminal damage etc. these can then be fed directly into a database from the station! The current system is a nighmare where the above need to be submitted seperately to HQ
>

I'm horrified that not all prisoners have prints and photos taken. I'm guessing you don't take their DNA either? We use the livescan fingerprint system. Its computerised, no block and ink, and the set of prints are electronically sent to the Yard (I think it is... or Hendon) and you'll get a reply usually in about 15 minutes with confirmation as to identitiy if the persons prints are on file.

No personal issue radio, and going out with no radio??? I'd rather go out with no stick, cuffs, gas or stabby.

Pulse sounds like a load of rubbish. Our systems are web based and though a bit weary, handy enough to use.

Again, I'm stunned you don't have work email, how on earth.....

Disgraceful. The Government and Garda management should be ashamed of themselves.

TheNog · 17-12-2007 1:50pm

-The email system we have is the run of the mill Outlook but is not used for official correspondance.
- PULSE is a bit of a pain especially in the last couple of months its working so bloody slow.
- Fingerprints and photographs should be taken in all criminal acts no matter what the circumstances or age of the offender. Surely the god there is better procedures or systems for lifting fingerprints from metal objects. At local level it seems we cannot lift/identify fingerprints from any metal object.
- DNA should be taken as standard too.
- Get rid of the bloody ties. They are outdated and damn uncomfortable. White t-shirt underneath the shirt still looks good or as suggested by mutz, polar neck shirts.
- again 1.4l should only be assigned to city stations as speed and power is not always needed when going through traffic. All country stations should be provided with minimum 2l petrol cars.Diesels are alright but lack high rev usage therefore making them slower than petrol cars. No good if you are chasing a petrol car or motorbike.
- Air Support should be distributed around the country. At the moment we have 2 helos. At least one is based in Dublin, the other one I don't where it is based. They have a great set-up there with GPS mapping and actual maps for every part of the country. Thanks lads for showing me around.
- In car computer with access to PULSE, apnr (though maybe not every car ) and maps/directions for properties with monitored alarms.
- as above every property with monitored alarms should be mapped. It is a pain in the arse trying to find them when a panic/intruder alarm is set off.
- proper computer software for viewing/printing cctv. Seems that there are so many different types of software out there. In one instance I had to travel to three different stations to find someone that had the software just to view the footage.
- of course radios are a major issue.

The only thing preventing us getting proper equipment is money. Even though our annual budget is a billion euro it seems we need to spend even more than that just to drag us into the 21st century world of policing.

TheNog · 19-12-2007 8:40am

Found this which has some promise. We just need it put into practice

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/The%20fight%20against%20crime%20to%20be%20a%20top%20priority%20in%202008%20%E2%80%93%20Lenihan

Ultravid · 24-12-2007 2:20am

DMC2005 wrote: »

Is there not a bit of a double standard here?

I suggested that something like a focus should never be expected to hit speeds of 150kmph because its just not safe. Yet everyone seemed to disagree with me and think that there was no problem at all.

Yet on the other hand people seem to want more powerfull cars and cite safety as the reason.

Either its safe to reach 150kmph in a 1.4L focus, in which case we don't really need to get bigger cars, or its not safe, in which case these small cars should not be taken to such high speed.

If the real difference here is driver training, then faster cars will cause more problems than it will solve.

You don't seem to understand how cars work.

Doing 100mph in a Corsa is scary. The same speed in a Volvo V70 is a hell of a lot safer.

Also, doing 100mph in a Corsa is pushing the car to it's absolute limit, which is not safe nor sustainable, whilst a more powerful car will reach those speeds more easily, quickly, safely, and will be more controllable, with extra power in reserve.

It's safer to overtake and pursue other vehicles in a more powerful car. You can end the pursuit more quickly. You can catch up with the offender more quickly. You just won't be able to do that in a crappy 1 litre.

If people know the cops have good cars, they may be less likely to try and outrun the police as they know they will probably be caught.

TheNog · 24-12-2007 9:03am

DMC2005 wrote: »

Is there not a bit of a double standard here?

I suggested that something like a focus should never be expected to hit speeds of 150kmph because its just not safe. Yet everyone seemed to disagree with me and think that there was no problem at all.

Yet on the other hand people seem to want more powerfull cars and cite safety as the reason.

Either its safe to reach 150kmph in a 1.4L focus, in which case we don't really need to get bigger cars, or its not safe, in which case these small cars should not be taken to such high speed.

If the real difference here is driver training, then faster cars will cause more problems than it will solve.

I think you are missing the point. The scenario I mentioned earlier took place on a good, straight surface road with a Ford Focus. 150kph in a Focus is a bit scary because you can feel it in the steering plus the braking and handling is affected. However the 2l Mondeo can match that speed with much better handling and braking thus making it safer for the members and the public. Not all situations of course would this speed be safe in either the Mondeo or the Focus but in my scenario it was.
What we are trying to point out is the lack of power in gathering speed in the focus and the ability to sustain that speed is what can be dangerous and especially non effective in catching someone who does not want to be caught. Example of this is at a checkpoint you see a car turn around (happens often) and you give chase. The car you are trying to stop is doing say 80kph but because it has a lead on you,you must do 110kph - 120kph. The Focus is simply not up that and the car being chased would simply disappear from view.

Make no mistake, if you believe that Gardai do not or should not drive at such speeds at appropriate times then you do not realise what the job sometimes entails.

the locust · 29-12-2007 10:15pm

Better cars and better drivers!

Dont get me wrong the car course the official drivers are put through is very good.

But i'd guess more drivers are on Chiefs permission to drive and its another cutting of corners, because, bar doing passing their drivers test, i dont believe they've had much else driver training! Which is outrageous!

I'd call for better drivers. And agree with the arguements above for 2.0L cars especially in the countryside, and the outskirts of Dublin.

The inner city doesn't need 2.0 litre cars, but rather turbo cars with good suspension. I was in an Opel Vectra 1.9L CDTI and (although it was close to being a 2 litre) it was an absolute rocket in acceleration compared to the ford 1.4...

Better equipment for the Gardai

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