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Paddy Power Transphobic Ad,

135

Comments

  • #102
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    diddlybit wrote: »
    Aw, look. They apologised. Everything's ok now. :mad:
    They did? I see the word in there all right but I don't actually see an apology.
    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I know I should know better than to get involved here, but how is the ad inciting violence against transpeople?
    Potential to, I believe was the phrase, I can see the point, considering the behaviours and attitudes it illustrates and advocates.
    bodice ripper wrote: »
    in my own opinion, either you can laugh at everyone or no one. The ad is clearly intentionally in bad taste. It doesn't seem to me to be any more of an attack on transpeople than other ads and tv shows have attacks on gays/lesbians/americans/italians/fat people/poor people/women/men/black people/white people/old people/middle class/students/religious people etc. How shall we decided who is granted an amnesty?
    I have very strong opinions on this, I love to take the piss out of people, and I have no issue with jokes at my expense, from my perspective everyone's fair game, but you don't mock innate characteristics or deeply held beliefs, I don't think that's too hard to grasp.


  • #103
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    wonderfulname wrote: »

    I have very strong opinions on this, I love to take the piss out of people, and I have no issue with jokes at my expense, from my perspective everyone's fair game, but you don't mock innate characteristics or deeply held beliefs, I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

    For who? who's ideas? what is an innate characteristic? who defines that?

    Very hard to grasp, but thank you for the tone.


  • #104
    diddlybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I know I should know better than to get involved here, but how is the ad inciting violence against transpeople?

    As wonderfulname said the potential to incite violence. Around twenty seconds in, there is a shot of a woman leaving the men's bathrooms. If we take it that she is transgender, I think it's a very dangerous idea to put into the heads of the uninformed that transwomen should use male restrooms. That notion got a woman so badly last year in a MacDonalds that she had a seizure. And she's certainly not the only transwoman that has experienced abuse when perceived using the bathroom that matches her gender.
    wonderfulname wrote: »
    They did? I see the word in there all right but I don't actually see an apology.

    Yup. Half-assed apology if I ever saw one.


  • #105
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I know I should know better than to get involved here, but how is the ad inciting violence against transpeople?


    in my own opinion, either you can laugh at everyone or no one. The ad is clearly intentionally in bad taste. It doesn't seem to me to be any more of an attack on transpeople than other ads and tv shows have attacks on gays/lesbians/americans/italians/fat people/poor people/women/men/black people/white people/old people/middle class/students/religious people etc. How shall we decided who is granted an amnesty?

    Also, if the answer is "everyone", nuts to that.

    +100000

    Why should transgendered people be immune from ads/tv shows/clips etc. that make jokes about them? Either ads/tv shows/books etc. should be banned from using humour against all types of people, or none at all.

    I don't think the ad was in good taste and let's face it, it wasn't particularly funny or clever. But it's not fair to ban any sort of jokes about transgenders but not those against gays/lesbians/fat people/skinny people/white people/black people etc.
    wonderfulname wrote: »

    I have very strong opinions on this, I love to take the piss out of people, and I have no issue with jokes at my expense, from my perspective everyone's fair game, but you don't mock innate characteristics or deeply held beliefs, I don't think that's too hard to grasp.

    So you don't believe the piss should be taken out of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, gingers, white people, black people, asians, africans, tall people. short people, bald people, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. etc, ?

    They are all categories of people with innate characteristics or deeply held beliefs.

    I would hate to live in a world without being able to take the piss out of people :pac: including myself!


  • #106
    diddlybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    Why should transgendered people be immune from ads/tv shows/clips etc. that make jokes about them? Either ads/tv shows/books etc. should be banned from using humour against all types of people, or none at all.

    There is a spectrum of humour and somewhere along that spectrum is the line where it turns from humour into offensiveness. I'm sure the majority of the groups that you mentioned have no problem laughing at themselves and the sterotypes that each group has. But there is a line.

    There was no self-deprecatory humourous tone to the Paddy Power's ad. The bottom line was that it inferred that transwomen aren't real women. That's not funny in any universe.


  • #107
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    So you don't believe the piss should be taken out of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, gingers, white people, black people, asians, africans, tall people. short people, bald people, Christians, Muslims, Jews etc. etc, ?

    They are all categories of people with innate characteristics or deeply held beliefs.
    But I didn't say that did I? You should try actually reading what I posted instead of just lambasting an opinion we both disagree with. Take the piss out of anyone and everyone, as I've already said, just not for things they can't control, it's not at all a big oul PC mad position, it's just respectful.

    bodice ripper - And what tone did you attribute to my post?


  • #108
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    wonderfulname wrote: »
    But I didn't say that did I? You should try actually reading what I posted instead of just lambasting an opinion we both disagree with.

    Or how about you try actually reading what I wrote and see that I'm not lambasting an opinion you disagree with; I was simply asking you a question which you have sort of answered so thank you for that.
    wonderfulname wrote: »
    Take the piss out of anyone and everyone, as I've already said, just not for things they can't control, it's not at all a big oul PC mad position, it's just respectful.

    bodice ripper - And what tone did you attribute to my post?

    Although maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post.

    Gays, lesbians and bisexuals can't control their sexuality
    Tall and short people can't control their height
    Ginger people can't control their hair colour (they can dye it, but they were still born with ginger hair)
    Bald people can't control their baldness, short of getting a hair transplant or whatever
    Whites, blacks, asians etc. can't control what race they are

    You see what I mean? All of these categories of people are made fun of for things they can't control. I just want to know why transgendered people are different and shouldn't be made fun of.


  • #109
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    diddlybit wrote: »
    There was no self-deprecatory humourous tone to the Paddy Power's ad. The bottom line was that it inferred that transwomen aren't real women. That's not funny in any universe.


    there is no "spectrum" without an initial viewpoint. There are people who think drawing mohammed isn't funny in any universe. There are people who think you should never say that scientology is a farce.


    @wonderfulname: including "I don't think that's too hard to grasp" is implying that had I any sense, I should come round to you way of thinking. that isn't the issue, I just don't agree with your view.


  • #110
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    I don't think I'll be around here for a short while.

    Transgenderism is a medical condition and, like a lot of medical conditions, it has a lot of suffering associated with it. Much, though not all, of that suffering is due to social factors, and that side of the suffering is greatly magnified by things like this ad.

    Right now, I'm suffering, and I'm suffering badly. And I need to take a break from those who claim the right to laugh at my sufferings.


  • #111
    diddlybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    Right now, I'm suffering, and I'm suffering badly. And I need to take a break from those who claim the right to laugh at my suffering.

    :( And yet, there's a host of people out there ready to tell you that you're over-sensitive or lacking a sense of humour. It's difficult to fathom how this ad could still be defended when it makes people feel like this.





    Ps. The blonde really suits you, couldn't post that on the other thread without posting a pic.


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  • #112
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    All of these categories of people are made fun of for things they can't control. I just want to know why transgendered people are different and shouldn't be made fun of.
    Sorry, maybe it was my post that wasn't clear, that's my personal way about things, I wouldn't take the mick out of any of the above for the category they slide into, with the exception of close friends, in my opinion that's just respectful and mannerly, so from my perspective I don't see the all or nothing argument.
    bodice ripper wrote: »
    @wonderfulname: including "I don't think that's too hard to grasp" is implying that had I any sense, I should come round to you way of thinking. that isn't the issue, I just don't agree with your view.
    Sorry, general remark, I find myself saying that a lot and I find a lot of the time people look at me like an alien for it, wasn't really aimed at anyone or anything, my bad.


  • #113
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    wonderfulname wrote: »

    Sorry, general remark, I find myself saying that a lot and I find a lot of the time people look at me like an alien for it, wasn't really aimed at anyone or anything, my bad.


    No problem. tbf, I am known for my fondness for wording analysis, so my bad too then.


  • #114
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    I'll just drop in for a bit of educating work.

    The most suffering part of transgenderism isn't the social or the medical - it is the psychological. I have to live my entire fscking life in a body that is the ultimate betrayal of who I am. This ad - with it's reminders of that fact through it's misgendering of me and it's pointing out that I'm not like other women - greatly magnifies that suffering.

    Yes, you have the right to laugh at transgender people. Just as you have the right to laugh at the crippled, the blind, the broken. So have a damn good belly laugh. And don't be surprised when I, and others, look at you and wonder where your fscking humanity is.


  • #115
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    I'll just drop in for a bit of educating work.

    The most suffering part of transgenderism isn't the social or the medical - it is the psychological. I have to live my entire fscking life in a body that is the ultimate betrayal of who I am. This ad - with it's reminders of that fact through it's misgendering of me and it's pointing out that I'm not like other women - greatly magnifies that suffering.

    Yes, you have the right to laugh at transgender people. Just as you have the right to laugh at the crippled, the blind, the broken. So have a damn good belly laugh. And don't be surprised when I, and others, look at you and wonder where your fscking humanity is.

    Can I ask you a question? Is somebody who laughs at the likes of jokes on Family Guy and South Park, on many stand-up comedians shows, on offensive advertisements on tv, radio, on posters etc........have they no "fúcking humanity"?

    Again I am stating for the record that I didn't find this ad funny or clever and I can see how it is offensive. However, I do disagree with you if you are labelling anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint as having no humanity.


  • #116
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Right, I'm out. Disappointment is a pretty weak word for how I feel about this thread but it's in the right area.


  • #117
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    I love ALL of you


  • #118
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I know I should know better than to get involved here, but how is the ad inciting violence against transpeople?

    It doesn't directly

    It does certainly bring out hatred and vile bigotry in spades. And that is just after hours

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #119
    diddlybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    mango salsa wrote: »
    It does certainly bring out hatred and vile bigotry in spades. And that is just after hours

    I don't check AH often and I'm glad I haven't recently. Those comments are disgusting.


  • #120
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    now scuze me while I go cry into my pillow.


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  • #121
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mango salsa wrote: »
    It doesn't directly

    It does certainly bring out hatred and vile bigotry in spades. And that is just after hours

    I understand that. I personally think it is a bit of a stretch for that particular ad.


  • #122
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    mango salsa wrote: »
    It doesn't directly

    It does certainly bring out hatred and vile bigotry in spades. And that is just after hours
    diddlybit wrote: »
    I don't check AH often and I'm glad I haven't recently. Those comments are disgusting.

    “Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”


    - Oscar Wilde
    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I understand that. I personally think it is a bit of a stretch for that particular ad.

    The point being made. If Paddy Powers say it's ok to talk about or treat someone like me in this way, then where does it stop....

    --> http://www.queerty.com/2-trans-murders-rock-brazil-priscila-val-executed-in-the-streets-20110316/


  • #123
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    So why does the Paddy Powers and many AH reponses píss me off? Because it makes intolerance acceptable and brings us back to square one again.


  • #124
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    ItsThatManAgain wrote: »



    The point being made. If Paddy Powers say it's ok to talk about or treat someone like me in this way, then where does it stop....

    --> http://www.queerty.com/2-trans-murders-rock-brazil-priscila-val-executed-in-the-streets-20110316/



    and if we start telling people you can't make fun of men dressed as women (are the people in the ad actually trangender?) or indeed transgender people because doing so leads to murder in the streets, then where does that stop? I don't see anyone in here going mental that the objectification of women in every other damn ad on tv inevitably leads to violence against women. or that 300 (the film...) is clearly a piece of xenophobic pro-war propaganda, also steeped in homo and transphobia, not to mention racism.

    the standards you seek to apply to this particular minority group, were they applied to every group, would do away with a huge chunk of the artistic output of mankind. I don't agree.

    I expect to treated like everyone else in society, and society treats everyone pretty poorly when it comes to humour. Surely no one should know this better than the Irish: getting slagged off is an important sign that someone or something is becoming the norm. This ad would never have run a few short years ago because it was offensive. Not to transgender people, but to everyone else for even bringing the idea of transgender people into public light.


  • #125
    diddlybit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭diddlybit


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I understand that. I personally think it is a bit of a stretch for that particular ad.

    You don't have to draw your fist back or pull a trigger to commit violence, it can be committed indirectly. The well-publicised LGBT youth suicides of last year are indictative of the intolerability of living in a society that tolerates bigotry and abuse that forces someone to commit the ultimate act of violence against themselves.

    This may just one ad, but if we dismiss it as a publicity stunt or ignore it, there will be another, and then another. It becomes a relentless attack on the idenity of trans people.


  • #126
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    Can I ask you a question?
    No.

    Suffice it to say that you've completely misinterpreted what I wrote. And I'm not going to spend time clarifying - I've more important things to do right now.


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  • #127
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    diddlybit wrote: »
    You don't have to draw your fist back or pull a trigger to commit violence

    This may just one ad, but if we dismiss it as a publicity stunt or ignore it, there will be another, and then another. It becomes a relentless attack on the idenity of trans people.


    if we are going with platitudes:

    you don't have to put on a black sash to attack free speech.

    This may be one objection, but if we say "this subject is taboo" or ban it, there will be another, and then another. It becomes a relentless attack on free speech.

    it is a childish, unfunny ad. that is how ads are.


  • #128
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I understand that. I personally think it is a bit of a stretch for that particular ad.

    As I said - that is just the response in After Hours - I could probably create a huge book of hate that has been generated as a response to this ad.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #129
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    This may be one objection, but if we say "this subject is taboo" or ban it, there will be another, and then another. It becomes a relentless attack on free speech.

    I don't have a problem with that where so called free speech attacks minorities or different groups.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #130
    eaglach
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭eaglach


    I must be completely missing the point. What exactly is offensive about this ad?

    What I see is a type of betting scenario where you have to guess if someone was/is a man. Its a bit of a laugh and no one is being targeted negatively here.

    If a similar ad where you had to bet if a man was gay or a woman was a lesbian and had stereotypical camp men or butch women, I don't think there would be much of a fuss, or any mention of the ad at all.


  • #131
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    Because trans women aren't men - WE ARE WOMEN! Implying that we aren't women or are lesser than other women is what is causing us offense.

    It's not a laugh when it reinforces an outdated, bigoted sterotype.


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  • #132
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    eaglach wrote: »
    I must be completely missing the point. What exactly is offensive about this ad?

    1. Calling transgender women; men, horses, dogs. This is a refusal to acknowledge their gender identity and comparing them to animals.

    2. Having some "spot the tranny" as game and thereby ridiculing trans women and dehumanising them as something to be laughed at.

    3. The visual cues include cross dressers, the words mare and stallion, male toilets and some bloke waving a sausage around. With these visual clues they seem to be comparing trans people to horses, alluding to the penis or lack of (waving around a sausage) and also suggesting a problem around toilets.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #133
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I could probably create a huge book of hate that has been generated as a response to this ad.

    I was actually thinking of doing that,


  • #134
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mango salsa wrote: »
    As I said - that is just the response in After Hours - I could probably create a huge book of hate that has been generated as a response to this ad.


    don't be silly, it is not in response to the ad. you honestly think people are blank canvases for advertising to mold into bigots? Advertising is for selling things to people. It will AWLAYS do that first, before any other nefarious intents. It panders to what people think.

    Do you think people are honestly seeing this ad and thinking "i hadn't thought about it before, but now this ad shows me that I should fear/hate transgender people. noted". These people were already in some way uncomfortable with something they did understand and or where raised to think it was wrong. The advertising is in response to them, not the other way around.

    And that is sad. And that ad is ****ing vile. It's offensive to women in general/transgender people/women with self image issues/tall women/people involved in horse racing and anyone who appreciates well crafted jokes. Let's not forget the huge number of straight middle aged men who enjoy a few scoops and the bookies, who know well they are the target audience for this, who are sitting there thinking "**** me, don't drag me into this crap". I know I would be offended if I were them.

    But you can't have groups who have a veto on what can be said. Especially if it is going down to the level of bad jokes in ads. Thin end of a goddawful wedge.

    TL;DR
    I disagree but completely empathise, and am sorry to have hijacked the thread. I am all for continuing in a new thread if anyone is arsed, its a subject that I think is very relevant to all branches of LGBT.


  • #135
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭floggg


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    wonderfulname wrote: »
    But I didn't say that did I? You should try actually reading what I posted instead of just lambasting an opinion we both disagree with.

    Or how about you try actually reading what I wrote and see that I'm not lambasting an opinion you disagree with; I was simply asking you a question which you have sort of answered so thank you for that.
    wonderfulname wrote: »
    Take the piss out of anyone and everyone, as I've already said, just not for things they can't control, it's not at all a big oul PC mad position, it's just respectful.

    bodice ripper - And what tone did you attribute to my post?

    Although maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post.

    Gays, lesbians and bisexuals can't control their sexuality
    Tall and short people can't control their height
    Ginger people can't control their hair colour (they can dye it, but they were still born with ginger hair)
    Bald people can't control their baldness, short of getting a hair transplant or whatever
    Whites, blacks, asians etc. can't control what race they are

    You see what I mean? All of these categories of people are made fun of for things they can't control. I just want to know why transgendered people are different and shouldn't be made fun of.

    I think there is a difference between laughing at gay cliches versus laughing at sexuality.

    Ads about gay men loving glitter and madonna would irritate me but not be offensive. It would be a "humorous" reflection on certain characteristics. Modern Family relies on a lot of lazy cliches but it's one of the best shows of all time in my book.

    If however there was an ad that mocked me just for being gay, then I'd be offended. If there was an ad where people laughed at a guy just for being gay - nothing more, nothing less, I'd be offended. It would imply it was an okay thing to do.

    Or how about an ad inplying gay men werent real men, e.g. if Yorkie had a new ad with a tag line of "Not for girls or gays".
    Or "Yorkie - for men and dykes only".

    I think people would be offended, and rightly so.


  • #136
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    don't be silly, it is not in response to the ad. you honestly think people are blank canvases for advertising to mold into bigots? Advertising is for selling things to people. It will AWLAYS do that first, before any other nefarious intents. It panders to what people think.

    Yes I do believe that media in general can frame peoples perceptions of minority groups yes and that this can be done in a way that leads to bigotry and marginalisation.

    This ad is basically making it ok to treat trans people as nonhuman objects to be mocked and laughed at.

    I do believe that this ad has bought out quite a lot of hatred and bigotry.

    I don't actually believe in so called free speech and I believe there does need to be restrictions.
    And that is sad. And that ad is ****ing vile. It's offensive to women in general/transgender people/women with self image issues/tall women/people involved in horse racing and anyone who appreciates well crafted jokes. Let's not forget the huge number of straight middle aged men who enjoy a few scoops and the bookies, who know well they are the target audience for this, who are sitting there thinking "**** me, don't drag me into this crap". I know I would be offended if I were them.

    But you can't have groups who have a veto on what can be said. Especially if it is going down to the level of bad jokes in ads. Thin end of a goddawful wedge.

    On the one hand you are admitting it is vile and offensive - on the other you are saying free speech must be protected so that we can attack minorities. I have a huge huge problem with that. I don't actually believe in so called free speech and I believe there does need to be restrictions.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #137
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭floggg


    There are restrictions. Free speech is never absolute.


  • #138
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    And the fun and the humour continues - trans media watch have received reports of incidents of violence associated with this ad

    http://twitter.com/#!/TransMediaWatch/status/172626676709208064

    Completely predictable, of course. And fun - such fun - such great hilarity.

    :mad: mad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gif


  • #139
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    Let me be crystal clear where I stand on the "issue" of censorship and free speech.

    I absolutely, unequivocaly and unapologetically stand on the side of censorship when it comes to child pornography. Why? Because child pornography is an act of violence, and encourages violence, against a vulnerable group.

    For the same reason, I unapologetically stand on the side of censoring this ad. An ad that encourages the hunting down of members of a maligned group is INEVITABLY going to lead to violence against members of that group. And that is what has happened.

    If you stand on the side of speech that is itself an act of violence, or that inevitably leads to violence, let us know. And if you are so dumb that you couldn't see this coming, let us know.


  • #140
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    The ad has been suspended!

    The fscking killjoys at the British Advertising Regulator have forced it off air.

    http://www.teni.ie/news-post.aspx?contentid=398

    This is a terrible day for free speech. The trans community should have just shut up and put up - put up with the humiliation and indeed the violence.


  • #141
    thelizardqueen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 ✭thelizardqueen


    I never usually post in this forum but can't contain myself on this occasion - how the hell can it be a matter of opinion whether or not this ad is offensive? parading women around the place and asking men to pass judgement on whether they're 'stallions', 'mares' or 'dogs'?! ! Shockingly offensive to women and particularly transwomen.


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  • #142
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    9312ced70a16592d96d810afa61f1758.jpg


    Paddy Power


  • #143
    apache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭apache


    And thats one of the battles that i was talking about that needed to be fought. So thats good news.


  • #144
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    As someone alluded to earlier I actually find society's sexualisation of women really offensive,a preoccupation with breasts and bikini's,really revolting. Attitudes towards women need to change although I'm amazed how many are happy to take it.


  • #145
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Sorry, I am with free speech, and I don't believe that advertising should be the vehicle for social engineering.

    and child porn is not the same because the participants aren't able to give consent.


  • #146
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    No.

    Suffice it to say that you've completely misinterpreted what I wrote. And I'm not going to spend time clarifying - I've more important things to do right now.

    Good for you :rolleyes:

    Nice to confirm that discussion on any trans-related thread isn't tolerated here. Needless to say I won't bother next time. I'm out


  • #147
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    Needless to say I won't bother next time. I'm out
    I think that is a very very good idea. You took what I wrote about attitudes to suffering, and you somehow managed to see in what I wrote a censorship of people's opinions.

    You painted me as someone who calls people inhuman for disagreeing with me FFS! I mean, COME ON!


  • #148
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I don't believe that advertising should be the vehicle for social engineering.
    Um, advertising is nothing more than a vehicle for social engineering. Usually it engineers us into buying stuff, but it is also used to influence attitudes on social issues.

    Just to be clear - you think marriage equality should stop advertising.
    and child porn is not the same because the participants aren't able to give consent.
    The trans person who may have been attacked as a result of this didn't give their consent either. But, of course, they are just a trans person, so their suffering doesn't matter. Indeed, their suffering is what the joke is all about.

    Ha ha ha.


  • #149
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Guys, keep it civil.


  • #150
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    Um, advertising is nothing more than a vehicle for social engineering. Usually it engineers us into buying stuff, but it is also used to influence attitudes on social issues.

    But this is the beauty of free speech. If LGBT people feel that there is homophobic/transphobic content in the media, then there's really nothing stopping them from making their own advertisements to make people aware of these issues to balance out the cards.

    Personally I'd think this would have fair better way of attacking homophobia/transphobia than just taking people to court. Fight fire with fire, I say. I'm sure there's plenty of LGBT organisation who'd be willing to fund such advertisements. Heck, I'm sure there'd be people who'd be willing to do them for free.


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  • #151
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    “The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house”
    Audre Lorde


This discussion has been closed.
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