Possible false flag torpedo attacks on US carriers in the Persian gulf.

Be like Nutella · 22-02-2012 2:11am

anyone see GPS (Fareed Zakaria) on CNN on Sunday?

Gen Martin Dempsey - head of the US military said clearly that Iran has no nuclear weapons program... watch it if you don't believe it.

The interview is very striking in many ways actually... I'd watch it

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7049043/Fareed_Zakaria_GPS_-_February_19_2012

He said basically he doesn't see any point in a strike saying if Israel did it it would only push Iran back a couple years at best IF they start an actual weapons progrom. He said he was there last week for 3 days literally trying to convince the Israeli administration to cool it and by the way he was talking about it he seemed confident he had achieved that.

I think it's clear at this stage that the US has moved to a deter and contain option... they know there's no way of stopping Iran getting to the bomb if that's what they want... bar invading and overthrowing the regime and destroying all nuclear facilities (and then being stuck there for 10 years in a quagmire a giggidy that would make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a picnic even with the lessons they've learned).

Israel has done A LOT of bad crap over the decades.... but theyre not thick... they understand that they can't destroy everything and that the risks in trying are too great and the probably payoff too small to do it.... AND when the head of the US military goes over to you for a few days to rationalise NOT DOING IT and tries to convince you to get with America's strategy of containment and detterence and then you DO IT ANYWAY.... it's not smart or rational. I believe as Dempsey said on GPS that 'Iran is a rational actor'... i.e. will not suicidally attack anyone in the straits... because the regime wishes to survive... that the US is a rational actor... and by its own admission has nothing to gain from air striking Iran and everything to lose and has no intention on invading Iran under any cirumstances.... as all the think tank reports are clearly advising.

I agree it's way more exciting to consider Israel as a mad ****er and Iran as a crazy bastard and the US under the direct control of a cabal of military industrial hegemonic Jewish Neocons who want to invade Iran so that oil continues to be traded in dollars everywhere... and a few months ago it did seem that a US air strike was very possible but now that more is known and now that the actual challenges and potential payoff of an air strike are well considered the strategy now IS Containment and deterrence (AND the convincing of Israel to cool it).

If Iran had a nuclear weapons program in high gear right now, and was busted for it, everything would change but it doesn't... and has never had.
It's got a missile program minimum 3-5 years away from being a capable long range nuclear delivery system... it's probably experimented with some implosion detonation concepts and probably is enriching more Uranium to higher percentages than makes sense for medical isotopes in the tehran research reactor....but that's it.
To get to a point where it has enough fissile material for half a dozen 1 MT warheads PLUS a bomb that theoretically works PLUS a delivery system FOR AT LEAST HALF A DOZEN WEAPONS AND THEN TEST AN IMPLOSION DEVICE UNDERGROUND THAT BETTER WORK PERFECTLY FIRST TIME HAS GOT TO BE... IN MY NUCLEAR EXPERT OPINION : )... 5-7 YEARS AWAY AT LEAST... remember you have to have a few weapons ready to rock (in missiles in geographically distant completely secret ULTRA hardened sites as soon as you test...or you're ****ed !

You can't ignore all these things... you cannot bomb Iran from getting to the bomb if it really wants it and to do massive air strikes every couple of years is not an option.
So BAR
a) a massive invasion which is just NOT HAPPENING AT ALL
OR
b) and I'm serious... at least 'a few' nuclear strikes on Iran on a few hardened sites AFTER carrying out a 2-4 week MAAAAAAASIVE air strike campaign run off three carrier groups guaranteed to involve many lost pilots and some vessels.
Iran may end up having nukes and that's just a world we'll have to live in.

The Iranian Islamic cleric establishment control the military.... and the country to a large extent .... they're the revolutionary leaders... if they do something stupid ...like attack a carrier group...depending on the severity of the attack ..could well result in the US invading Iran...which simply means the end of their leadership AND their vision of an Iran run by a shiah theocracy as it currently is. They are already vulnerable to uprising and the precipitous break up of Iran that would happen in an invasion scenario would be against Russian AND Chinese interests SO MUCH SO that Russia AND China will do everything to prevent Iran from 'doing something stupid' like attacking US forces in the straits. This is traditionally Russia's backyard in the last 60 years... and their satelite states are all making noise of revolution and reform and independence calls etc... AS ARE THE UYGERS in China (a few million in the north west) who are in the same ethnic group as nearly half of Iranians (who are turkic)

Russia wants Iran to
chill...
continue messing with the US
and develop nuclear power (with their help)
and improve its own economy in order to
do some serious business with them (Iran has 70 Mill population remember)

China wants exactly the same thing...and is doing, and will do, more and more serious business with Iran....oil, weapons etc etc

The US just wants Iran
to have limited influence in the area...
to be considered the bad guy by the Arab league
and to gradually reform its way into a modern democracy without a massive revolution that could well result in a drawn out civil war....
oh and not to develop a nuclear weapon.

Be like Nutella · 22-02-2012 2:24am

IAEA Team Back in Iran for Nuclear Talks

http://www.nti.rsvp1.com/gsn/article/iaea-team-back-iran-nuclear-talks/?mgh=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nti.org&mgf=1

Jonny7 · 22-02-2012 4:01pm

jackiebaron wrote: »

Wasn't like that when I was there. But of course you'd know better because the propaganda machine told you so.

What is the point of your post?

The Iranian regime are assholes. It's a religious dictatorship in all but name. My friends went to Saudi to teach, they loved it and the people, still a nasty regime.

I don't "support" one country because I irrationally loathe another. A lot of that goes on here and its ridiculous.

Be like Nutella · 22-02-2012 9:49pm

I don't think most people who criticize the US administrations actions since 9/11 here irrationally loathe the USA... and certainly the 'loathing' isn't directed at the general population of America.
Do you not agree that their actions disserve massive criticism? In fact give me an example of something America has done militarily since Clinton gave the go ahead to stealth bomb Kosovo that isn't completely ****ed up?

They are certainly not acting like the generally touted/accepted benevolent force we were all blindly told/taught that they were years ago.

When they blatantly chose not to go into Rwanda years ago when their lack of action guaranteed a genoside... that was the moment it all changed and since then virtually everything they've done or tried to do internationally has been so unbelievably ****ed up I don't know how anyone could support or justify their actions... but if you want to lay your chips down and give some examples then fire away... lots of luck to ya... I would love to know which actions you support and which ones you criticise.

Not all books and documentaries about this stuff are a bunch of conspiracy theorist crap...amazingly....
This is the smartest most well written book I've personally ever read or even heard about on 'America's actions globally in the last 100 years' ( had to read it a few times over a few years coz it's pretty much beyond my intellectual powers not that that's saying much) basically it's an unbelievable feat of research... and it's all true and referenced and researched to within an inch of its life. It changed my world view entirely... she was born here as well... whatever difference that makes/does not make.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994021,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Problem_from_Hell

http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Hell-America-Age-Genocide/dp/0465061508

The ultimate debate of all time in my view would be a live 6 hour debate between a younger healthier Kissinger and Samantha Power of today.

Duiske · 23-02-2012 1:51am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

IAEA Team Back in Iran for Nuclear Talks

Well, that didn't last long. The US are wagging the finger at Iran, but still saying talks are still possible. Have not seen an official Israeli comment yet.

Jonny7 · 23-02-2012 2:23am

Duiske wrote: »

Well, that didn't last long. The US are wagging the finger at Iran, but still saying talks are still possible. Have not seen an official Israeli comment yet.

The IAEA have scheduled visits and inspections with Iran.

stuar · 23-02-2012 2:49am

Jonny7 wrote: »

The IAEA have scheduled visits and inspections with Iran.

What does that mean and say?

Be like Nutella · 23-02-2012 2:58am

22/2/2012 IAEA NOT ALLOWED TO SEE PARCHIN
So the IAEA aren't allowed into Parchin to see that explosion chamber dealy...the one that old Russian scientist was apparently (according to his son) helping Iran experiment in (albeit apparently on some technique to create industrial diamonds through explosions) but supposedly also to test detonation/implosion techniques/technology for a nuclear device nobody really knows...but hey it's fun to suppose right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_facilities_in_Iran#Parchin

"
Parchin
Parchin Military Complex ( 35°31′N51°46′E / 35.52°N 51.77°E / 35.52; 51.77) is located approximately 20 kilometers southeast of downtown Tehran. There is no evidence that Parchin is a nuclear site. The IAEA was given access to Parchin on 1 November 2005, and took environmental samples: inspectors did not observe any unusual activities in the buildings visited, and the results of the analysis of environmental samples did not indicate the presence of nuclear material.[21] Parchin is a facility for the testing and manufacturing of conventional explosives; IAEA safeguards inspectors were looking not for evidence of nuclear material, but of the kind of explosives testing consistent with nuclear weapons research and development.[22 "

Basically the IAEA wants a gander at that explosive facility which they haven't been inside yet.

This is an excerpt from a news piece today 22/2/2012 from the NTI (National Threat Initiative) This is the supposed next move for the IAEA AFTER they reported today that Iran is not lettin them into Parchin.

http://www.nti.rsvp1.com/gsn/article/iaea-cant-break-nuclear-impasse-iran/?mgh=http://www.nti.org&mgf=1

" ....the next move is up to the 35-nation IAEA Board of Governors, which is scheduled to begin its upcoming meeting on March 5. The session could produce results ranging from no formal action to reporting Iran to the U.N. Security Council, which has already passed four sanctions resolutions aimed at curbing the nation's uranium enrichment activities. "

My guess is that the US will now lobby hard for the IAEA to report to the UN obviously with the intention of raising the temperature in a new effort to do the sanctions thing...which of course China and Russia will probably veto...again.... and the game continues.

Iran are not doing themselves any favours by not allowing them into Parchin IF the facility is not part of any research into detonating a nuclear device. I know the reasoning behind it is to seem strong to its people to maintain the 'EVIL USA' narrative ... stubborn bastards : ).... why I ought a

Of course.... now that I think of it... Israel does have about 250 Nuclear Warheads right now loaded in cruise missiles on 3 Dolphin Class Submarines which cost $650 Mill each and were built by the Germans (who paid for a third of the deal as part of reparations) ... oh yeah and also at any of their gansey load of uninspected nuclear facilities...
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac...cilities.shtml
.....hmmm...that sounds to me like a nuclear weapons program of some sort.... which probably has nuclear facilities....like explosion chambers and all sorts of other places that do nuclear stuff....so...what did the IAEA say about those places?...oh yes now I remember...they never tried to see them..... because Israel is not a member of the bleeding NPT !!.. and once you're not a member...well...then....you're grand...you can do what ya like.
I mean the NPT have asked Israel to join it...but generally they get told very nicely to...whats that phrase?...yes F-U-C-K RIGHT OFF.... hmmm I wish there was a word so much stronger than 'contradiction' for situations like this.... I could develop it myself ...but thennnn The Oxford English Dictionary would want me to join them...and sure they'd want to inspect my room and so on so...**** it I'll go it alone and just call the whole thing...
ahem B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

Dimona... 31°4′N 35°2′E

http://www.fas.org/news/israel/e20000619israelmakes.htm
London Sunday Times
June 18, 2000

"Israeli defence sources claim the country has secretly carried out its first test launches from submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The launches last month from German-built vessels in the Indian Ocean were designed to simulate swift retaliation against a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Iran. "

Jonny7 · 23-02-2012 2:58am

stuar wrote: »

What does that mean and say?

?

stuar · 23-02-2012 3:08am

Jonny7 wrote: »

?

Ahh yea, now I get it, you dont have a clue, no worries, how do I stick u on ignore?

Duiske · 23-02-2012 12:45pm

Jonny7 wrote: »

The IAEA have scheduled visits and inspections with Iran.

stuar wrote: »

What does that mean and say?

Sorry. My fault. I should have posted a link to what I was talking about. It was about IAEA leaving Iran with no agreement on inspecting Parchin.

Run_to_da_hills · 20-05-2012 2:11pm

pacquiao wrote: »

USS Enterprise, the oldest carrier in the fleet, on her last legs, scheduled to be decommissioned next year is on her way to the Persian gulf.

Interesting point, this video is circulating about ATM.

If when it is to happen it would more than likely it would be a well staged Holywood set (Something that these guys have now perfected) complete with aircraft (Also close to their end in shelf life) to make it look good. I doubt very much if anything will happen this side of the Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufdw21ltc-8

Jonny7 · 20-05-2012 2:43pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Interesting point, this video is circulating about ATM.

If when it is to happen it would more than likely it would be a well staged Holywood set (Something that these guys have now perfected) complete with aircraft (Also close to their end in shelf life) to make it look good. I doubt very much if anything will happen this side of the Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufdw21ltc-8

It's just the usual scare video, typically made in someone's basement. It features nothing but speculation on the part of the maker, usually fueled by paranoia and suspicion rather than facts.

At the end of this year, when the ship enters decommission, this guy will most likely still be making these videos, some of the hundreds of similar on youtube, with their alarmist "predictions", I am sure someone will strike gold some day.

Modern day scare-mongers with youtube videos instead of placards.

Run_to_da_hills · 20-05-2012 2:47pm

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's just the usual scare video, typically made in someone's basement. It features nothing but speculation on the part of the maker, usually fueled by paranoia and suspicion rather than facts.

At the end of this year, when the ship enters decommission, this guy will most likely still be making these videos, of which there are hundreds, with their alarmist "predictions", I am sure someone will strike gold some day.

Something has to give out there.

Maybe it should be something that the bookies can look into.

Jonny7 · 20-05-2012 2:50pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Something has to give out there.

Maybe it should be something that the bookies can look into.

If you believe so firmly in these things, why don't you go down to the bookies and make a fortune? they'll take bets on virtually anything.

I'll tell you what, I'll give you 1 million to one odds on Obama being revealed as the anti-Christ within whatever time-frame you want!

Torakx · 20-05-2012 3:42pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Something has to give out there.

Maybe it should be something that the bookies can look into.

Tut tut,, game is rigged and house always wins :P

seanmacc · 28-05-2012 9:53am

Jonny7 wrote: »

If you believe so firmly in these things, why don't you go down to the bookies and make a fortune? they'll take bets on virtually anything.

I'll tell you what, I'll give you 1 million to one odds on Obama being revealed as the anti-Christ within whatever time-frame you want!

Don't you read your CT's? Prince William is the anti-Christ.

Possible false flag torpedo attacks on US carriers in the Persian gulf.

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