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faulty watch

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    #32
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Oryx wrote: »
    I would say its covered here specifically:

    My understanding of the law in its practical use is that three remedies are available, these must be agreed upon between both parties. Neither one is allowed to insist on one remedy to the exclusion of the others.

    I'd disagree with that statement. If you read the subsection again, it states the following....

    (b) the buyer, promptly upon discovering the breach, makes a request to the seller that he either remedy the breach or replace any goods which are not in conformity with the condition

    It doesn't explicitly say that the buyer has the option to elect which of those two options are invoked so I would read that to mean that the vendor has the choice in the first instance.

    However it does appear that the buyer is in a stronger situation the second time around...

    then, if the seller refuses to comply with the request or fails to do so within a reasonable time, the buyer is entitled:

    (i) to reject the goods and repudiate the contract, or

    (ii) to have the defect constituting the breach remedied elsewhere and to maintain an action against the seller for the cost thereby incurred by him.

    However the term 'within a reasonable time' is open to interpretation.

    It does say that if the vendor has failed to remedy the defect 'within a reasonable time', the buyer can repudiate the contract (i.e. demand a refund) or have the item sent 'elsewhere' to be repaired.


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    #33
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Why are you msking such a meal out of this?


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    #34
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Oryx wrote: »
    Why are you msking such a meal out of this?

    You have almost 4,000 more posts on boards than me, what are you complaining about?

    As long as people are prepared to discuss it and put up arguments for their case, I'm game for it.

    Isn't that what boards is all about?


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    #35
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    coylemj wrote: »
    ...
    As long as people are prepared to discuss it and put up arguments for their case, I'm game for it.

    Isn't that what boards is all about?
    It's only one of many things that boards is about, and I am personally happy to discuss consumer issues in a general way.

    But OP came here for advice on a particular problem, and his purpose in creating the thread should also be respected.


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    #36
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭flutered


    jobless wrote: »
    so technically he can keep sending it back for repair and i'm out a watch for weeks on end?

    go into a different shop tell them it has started to loose time, ask them would a battery change suffice, they can test the old battery, if a new battery works it costs a tenner, if not return it to the origional shop.


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    #37
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    It's only one of many things that boards is about, and I am personally happy to discuss consumer issues in a general way.

    But OP came here for advice on a particular problem, and his purpose in creating the thread should also be respected.

    Point taken but this is what the OP asked...
    jobless wrote: »
    What options do i have here?. Can i demand a refund?

    Which is what I though we were discussing... the legalities of whether at this point in the process he is entitled to demand a refund under consumer legislation.


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    #38
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    flutered wrote: »
    go into a different shop tell them it has started to loose time, ask them would a battery change suffice, they can test the old battery, if a new battery works it costs a tenner, if not return it to the origional shop.

    hang on... why should i have to pay more to fix it?....

    surely when it was sent back 4 months ago they would have checked the battery.....


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    #39
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    googled it and a few of those TISSOT GENTS PRS 200 are running slow it seems

    just ask for your money back
    if a quartz watch runs wrong its pointless


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    #40
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    Tigger wrote: »
    googled it and a few of those TISSOT GENTS PRS 200 are running slow it seems

    just ask for your money back
    if a quartz watch runs wrong its pointless

    can you point me to any websites you found this info on?.... dont see any myself


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    #41
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    jobless wrote: »
    can you point me to any websites you found this info on?.... dont see any myself
    I saw it mentioned twice. Once in an amazon review, and once on answers.com


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    #42
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    Oryx wrote: »
    I saw it mentioned twice. Once in an amazon review, and once on answers.com

    would you post those links or pm to me thanks


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    #43
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    I can't right now but I just searched for your model of watch not keeping time. In some sites there was mention of a reset of the chronograph being required to prevent issues. Might be worth looking into.


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    #44
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LITOF9FBJ2LF/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2LITOF9FBJ2LF


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    #45
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    coylemj wrote: »
    http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LITOF9FBJ2LF/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2LITOF9FBJ2LF

    not the exact model but thanks anyway....


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    #46
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    jobless wrote: »
    not the exact model but thanks anyway....

    Sorry, that came up as a 'hit' on Google even though I was searching for PRS200. When I read the piece I missed the fact that the model number was different from yours.

    An electric current applied to a quartz crystal is supposed to cause the crystal to oscillate at a frequency of 32,768 Hz. That number just happens to be 2 raised to the power of 15 so when stepped down 15 times, the mechanism should yield one pulse per second and that is how quartz watches work.

    In more expensive quartz watches, a variation (from 32k Hz) in the crystal frequency can be handled by the movement being monitored in the factory over a few weeks and an inaccuracy in the frequency can be managed by programming the watch movement to drop a set number of the original pulses so as to ensure that the end frequency is exactly one pulse per second. It's the equivalent of adjusting the amount of sand in an egg timer.

    In your case it's possible that the retailer who sold you the watch tried to fix the problem by changing the battery, I suspect the problem is more serious than that and that the watch needs to be sent back to the factory. I doubt that anyone outside the factory can fix the problem and it's probably a problem that can't be fixed without replacing the crystal.

    Almost all mechanical watches and clocks have an internal adjuster to make them go faster or slower which allows you to fine tune them to show the correct time. On older pendulum clocks the adjuster was a tiny button weight on a screw at the bottom of the pendulum, this allowed the user to adjust the centre of gravity of the pendulum which in turn made the pendulum swing faster or slower in tiny increments. There is no equivalent mechanical adjustment capability in quartz watches.


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    #47
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    coylemj wrote: »
    Sorry, that came up as a 'hit' on Google even though I was searching for PRS200. When I read the piece I missed the fact that the model number was different from yours.

    An electric current applied to a quartz crystal is supposed to cause the crystal to oscillate at a frequency of 32,768 Hz. That number just happens to be 2 raised to the power of 15 so when stepped down 15 times, the mechanism should yield one pulse per second and that is how quartz watches work.

    In more expensive quartz watches, a variation (from 32k Hz) in the crystal frequency can be handled by the movement being monitored in the factory over a few weeks and an inaccuracy in the frequency can be managed by programming the watch movement to drop a set number of the original pulses so as to ensure that the end frequency is exactly one pulse per second. It's the equivalent of adjusting the amount of sand in an egg timer.

    In your case it's possible that the retailer who sold you the watch tried to fix the problem by changing the battery, I suspect the problem is more serious than that and that the watch needs to be sent back to the factory. I doubt that anyone outside the factory can fix the problem and it's probably a problem that can't be fixed without replacing the crystal.

    Almost all mechanical watches and clocks have an internal adjuster to make them go faster or slower which allows you to fine tune them to show the correct time. On older pendulum clocks the adjuster was a tiny button weight on a screw at the bottom of the pendulum, this allowed the user to adjust the centre of gravity of the pendulum which in turn made the pendulum swing faster or slower in tiny increments. There is no equivalent mechanical adjustment capability in quartz watches.

    my god you know a lot about watches :)


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    #48
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    jobless wrote: »
    my god you know a lot about watches :)

    I bought my first quartz watch in the 1970s...

    casio-f-100-1-197x300.jpg


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    #49
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    jobless wrote: »
    not the exact model but thanks anyway....

    same movement in it

    its an eta g10.211


    http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/problem-eta-g10-211-a-499765.html

    sorry

    ask for your money back and act like you plan to buy another watch off him
    then don't
    go to the watches forum to get help picking the replacement there is much better value out there


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    #50
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    well i went back in and the manager basically told me that all they could do is send it back to get repaired again and they could do this up to three times before it is replaced. I told her i wanted a replacement or refund but she wasnt budging (as nice as she was about it).... I told her id need to think about it....

    So another six weeks without the watch and if it breaks again rince and repeat.... sounds seriously unfair to me...

    what else do i do?


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    #51
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    jobless wrote: »

    what else do i do?

    Next step is small claims court, or let them send the watch off again and hope that this time the repair is permanent.

    Personally I'd be aiming for SMC as the fee for doing so is nothing compared to your potential refund and just instigating it might be enough to get the shop to play ball. Worst case scenario, you lose your claim, the small SMC fee and then have to send your watch off for repair anyway.


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    #52
    daingeanrob
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭daingeanrob


    yup small claims court all the way. i find it "brings things to a head". no shop wants to waste time going to the small claims court especially if the likelihood is that they'd lose, (which in your case i believe they would). a quartz watch losing that much time over ten days is not fit for purpose and should at least be replaced. mention in your small claim that you can see in your research of the issue that this appears an inherrant problem in this watch as you can see online specific other cases of these watches running slow.


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    #53
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    OP - I would ring the NCA next. Explain the situation to them and see what they say.

    I'd also email Tissot (http://www.tissot.ch/?contact) and ask if there are problems with your watch as you are having problems etc. Also, ask what the repair procedure is, how long and how many times etc. (You will be able to demonstrate a willingness to be fair etc in the SCC if needed.)

    I'm not a legal bod at all - but I do believe that it will come down to what you can reasonably expect.

    In this case, from a Tissot costing ca. €500, you could reasonably expect a high level of service - and it seems you're not getting it.

    You may find that the retailer is more flexible if you have the NCA behind you.

    Might be worth referencing this in the Science->Watches thread
    also.


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    #54
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    thanks guys, i plan on ringing the NCA on monday to see what they think.... i think it is unreasonable to be without the watch for such a long time and then have the worry again that it isnt going to be right....


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    #55
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jobless wrote: »
    well i went back in and the manager basically told me that all they could do is send it back to get repaired again and they could do this up to three times before it is replaced.
    This claime that a supplier is entitled to three attempts at repair is an absurdity (which I think has been invented by mobile phone suppliers).
    ... So another six weeks without the watch and if it breaks again rince and repeat.... sounds seriously unfair to me...
    You have already lost the use of your watch for six weeks; whenever you had the watch, it did not keep proper time - so you can make the case that since you purchased it, you have not had a working timepiece.
    what else do i do?
    Small claims court. And tell them that you will be making strong efforts to make people aware of your bad experience.


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    #56
    skinny90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭skinny90


    jobless wrote: »
    thanks guys, i plan on ringing the NCA on monday to see what they think.... i think it is unreasonable to be without the watch for such a long time and then have the worry again that it isnt going to be right....

    Hmm iv been following the thread but didn't post on the basis that I wouldn't have a clue about watches. I would chance my arm with the manager again. As the other posters mentioned try the other routes. I wouldn't go to smc yet( it can be a long painful process)
    Perhaps have a friendly chat with her...tell her thanks very much for her offer for the repair however you feel you have just lost all confidence in the watch performing considering how much you paid for it.if she still insists just openly ask her how long would she expect if she invested her hard earned money in a 500 quid watch?
    If she continues to insist on a 3 repair policy again politely tell her that what the law is and that all you want is a to be treated fairly and by the law of the land.
    Try and not be defensive try and keep your cool and just keep your cool... Don't go in all hands lose quoting sales of goods act the manager will know quite well what it is


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    #57
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    skinny90 wrote: »
    Hmm iv been following the thread but didn't post on the basis that I wouldn't have a clue about watches. I would chance my arm with the manager again. As the other posters mentioned try the other routes. I wouldn't go to smc yet( it can be a long painful process)
    Perhaps have a friendly chat with her...tell her thanks very much for her offer for the repair however you feel you have just lost all confidence in the watch performing considering how much you paid for it.if she still insists just openly ask her how long would she expect if she invested her hard earned money in a 500 quid watch?
    If she continues to insist on a 3 repair policy again politely tell her that what the law is and that all you want is a to be treated fairly and by the law of the land.
    Try and not be defensive try and keep your cool and just keep your cool... Don't go in all hands lose quoting sales of goods act the manager will know quite well what it is

    i more or less said all of this to her yesterday and she wasnt budging.... i guess my problem is that i'm not sure exactly where i stand here as to my rights.... hopefully talking to the nca might enlighten me...
    she did say she would ring me on monday to tell me if there is anything that could be done (by talking to her superiors) but i think that was fobbing me off a bit...


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    #58
    jobless
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭jobless


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    This claime that a supplier is entitled to three attempts at repair is an absurdity (which I think has been invented by mobile phone suppliers).

    You have already lost the use of your watch for six weeks; whenever you had the watch, it did not keep proper time - so you can make the case that since you purchased it, you have not had a working timepiece.

    Small claims court. And tell them that you will be making strong efforts to make people aware of your bad experience.

    i'm definately considering the small claims court, again that will probably be another age before i get any result


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    #59
    donegal.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭donegal.


    blindsider wrote: »
    OP -

    I'd also email Tissot (http://www.tissot.ch/?contact) and ask if there are problems with your watch as you are having problems etc. Also, ask what the repair procedure is, how long and how many times etc. (You will be able to demonstrate a willingness to be fair etc in the SCC if needed.)

    i'd second this. I've seen a few instances where the manufacturer has organised a replacement. The supplier that the shop uses probably has a set procedure that the shop is forced to stick to, their hands are tied.

    your contract is with the shop.If you go to small claims court the shop keeper will have to pay out of his own pocket. Even though Tissot sold a defective product they get to keep your money.

    Seeing as you've been back to the shop and gotten no joy the next step is to bypass the shop and try to deal directly with Tissot. I'd use google and get the number for someone very high up in the company, eg the ceo. It has to be someone high enough up to have the authority to send a replacement at the drop of a hat.

    Court is your last resort.


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