England Squad Announced - Bullard Included, No Young or Owen

Charlie · 31-08-2008 8:10pm #1

Robinson (Blackburn), James (Portsmouth), Green (West Ham); Lescott (Everton), Bridge (Chelsea), A Cole (Chelsea), Terry (Chelsea), Brown (Manchester United), Ferdinand (Manchester United), Johnson (Portsmouth), Upson (West Ham); Barry (Aston Villa), J Cole (Chelsea), Lampard (Chelsea), Bullard (Fulham), Beckham (Los Angeles Galaxy), Downing (Middlesbrough), Bentley (Tottenham), Jenas (Tottenham); Walcott (Arsenal), Rooney (Manchester United), Defoe (Portsmouth), Heskey (Wigan).

Not including Owen or Young is ridiculous. Someone please tell me what Walcott has done over the last 3 or 4 games that merits an inclusion ahead of Owen. Likewise, Jermaine Jenas seems a fairly duff pick.

Bullard included is a surprise, and I guess you can't take it away from the bloke given his nature. However, is there any point including someone like Bullard when realistically he will never get a game considering all those ahead of him in that position. Surely including Young would have been a better use of a squad place.

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 8:14pm

Heskey gets in ahead of Crouch again?
Also no sign of Aston Villa's guy Aba (can't spell his name sorry)..

charlie mchugh wrote:

Someone please tell me what Walcott has done over the last 3 or 4 games that merits an inclusion ahead of Owen.

Scored a great goal against FC Twente and has been creating many many goalscoring chances for Arsenal.

Charlie · 31-08-2008 8:16pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

Heskey gets in ahead of Crouch again?
Also no sign of Aston Villa's guy Aba (can't spell his name sorry)..

Scored a great goal against FC Twente and has been creating many many goalscoring chances for Arsenal.

He has looked pretty absent in any premiership performances that I have seen him in. Owen's goal to game ratio for both club and country should really get him an automatic spot.

ibh · 31-08-2008 8:16pm

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Robinson (Blackburn), James (Portsmouth), Green (West Ham); Lescott (Everton), Bridge (Chelsea), A Cole (Chelsea), Terry (Chelsea), Brown (Manchester United), Ferdinand (Manchester United), Johnson (Portsmouth), Upson (West Ham); Barry (Aston Villa), J Cole (Chelsea), Lampard (Chelsea), Bullard (Fulham), Beckham (Los Angeles Galaxy), Downing (Middlesbrough), Bentley (Tottenham), Jenas (Tottenham); Walcott (Arsenal), Rooney (Manchester United), Defoe (Portsmouth), Heskey (Wigan).

Not including Owen or Young is ridiculous. Someone please tell me what Walcott has done over the last 3 or 4 games that merits an inclusion ahead of Owen. Likewise, Jermaine Jenas seems a fairly duff pick.

Bullard included is a surprise, and I guess you can't take it away from the bloke given his nature. However, is there any point including someone like Bullard when realistically he will never get a game considering all those ahead of him in that position. Surely including Young would have been a better use of a squad place.

I thought that when Capello came in these sort of farcical call up's would be finished. Bullard looks like a decent player but not good enough for this team.
Walcott not deserving of a place. Where's Ashton, is he injured.
Young also needs to be there. Don't call him up and they'll prob still complain that they have no LW.

monkey9 · 31-08-2008 8:16pm

I am absolutely shocked by Bullard's inclusion. Decent enough player in an average team, but to be called up to England???? Do friendlies mean nothing to Capello?? Where the hell did he get Bullard from??

monkey9 · 31-08-2008 8:18pm

Let's cut through the bullsh!t here, Owen is more worthy of a place than Rooney on current form!!

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 8:19pm

charlie mchugh wrote: »

He has looked pretty absent in any premiership performances that I have seen him in. Owen's goal to game ratio for both club and country should really get him an automatic spot.

Crouch has a better goal to game ratio than Owen and Rooney.
As for Walcot I think you should watch Arsenal's matches more closely. Walcott has played pretty well so far (with the exception of teh Fulham game where the whole team were poor). He also hit great form at the end of last season.

Wreck · 31-08-2008 8:20pm

I can't believe Owen has been left out. I was certain he would start if fit. Would have had Crouch in for Heskey also. Delighted for Bullard, think he really deserves the call up.

CHD · 31-08-2008 8:23pm

Young not being there is a joke

Charlie · 31-08-2008 8:24pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

Crouch has a better goal to game ratio than Owen and Rooney.

Regarding Owen, just about, and that's considering Crouch has scored about half as many goals, and a fair few of them coming against sh/te teams or in meaningless friendlies.

Gaviscon wrote: »

As for Walcot I think you should watch Arsenal's matches more closely. Walcott has played pretty well so far (with the exception of teh Fulham game where the whole team were poor). He also hit great form at the end of last season.

Fair enough, maybe I am underrating him, but surely Owen has performed far far better in his last 10 premier league games.

OPENROAD · 31-08-2008 8:25pm

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Fair enough, maybe I am underrating him, but surely Owen has performed far far better in his last 10 premier league games.

Has Owen not just come back from injury

Tom65 · 31-08-2008 8:26pm

I think Bullard is a good inclusion. He's played really well this season (and the end of last season). Hopefully he'll get to play, rather than just filling the numbers. He's fairly passionate, something that seems to elude most of the England squad.

That said, I can't believe Ashley Young hasn't called up. Same for Jonathon Woodgate.

mike65 · 31-08-2008 8:26pm

Heskey took a nice goal yesterday and he caught Caps eye before the previous game so maybe he likes a big man who can hold the ball/knock down (which to be fair is not Crouches greatest asset from his head, better with ball at feet or flicking on). Owen should be in if he is upright on two legs.

With Gerrard now absent I guess we can look forward to a stunning display from Lampard

Mike

gixerfixer · 31-08-2008 8:31pm

Capello is a joke. If he had a pair he would drop Rooney and lampard and shake the whole thing up. He's been found out already due to the bad performances and the fact he said reputations meant nothing to him. How can he include Rooney then with his dire international scoring record. If any England manager stuck Heskey in the team match after match and he didnt score he's get slated in the press but because it's Rooney (the next Pele :rolleyes: im looking at you Dunphy) he gets away with it. The mans no better than Mc Clown IMO.

Tom65 · 31-08-2008 8:33pm

I don't think it's the manager. I think England's players couldn't give a sh*te. They never look like they're relishing playing for their country, they make it look like chore.

Drop the lot of them and take the squad from Championship players

Charlie · 31-08-2008 8:34pm

OPENROAD wrote: »

Has Owen not just come back from injury

No, he just had a slow pre-season through a few niggles, KK was easing him back in. Owen declared himself fully against Cov, and then played a full 90 against Arsenal.

SantryRed · 31-08-2008 8:39pm

Me too. Bullard's a fantastic footballer.

Mr Alan · 31-08-2008 8:39pm

**** sake,how can anyone call Capello a joke?! The man is one of the greatest managers of all time, leave him be and see how England get on.

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 8:39pm

The only reason I could possibly think for the exclusion of Michael Owen is the fact the he has been so injury prone for the last couple of years.
I don't understand the omission of Ashley Young.
I also think that Agbonlahor deserves a call up at this stage.

corban · 31-08-2008 8:46pm

i understand not picking owen, how many minutes on the pitch has he had over the last few years? sicknote.... he'll get his place back when he gets a run of games under his belt.....

bullard is a good player, and only on lampards england form, he might be worth a punt ahead of lamps...but prob should've checked him in a friendly or 2 first....

ashley young i wouldve thought he deserves a chance, but he didnt really impress when he togged out for england last time......

gabby agbon is just caught between 2 positions imo, dunno if he's an out an out striker....

Charlie · 31-08-2008 8:48pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

**** sake,how can anyone call Capello a joke?! The man is one of the greatest managers of all time, leave him be and see how England get on.

Club and National management are two very different beasts.

I think he is open for criticism as his squad is full of so many contradictions.

He said that he wouldn't be afraid to drop big names, and include players on merit, Bullard presumably highlighting this policy. Yet he still selects the likes of Lampard and Rooney who haven't performed at intl. level for years now.

If he is picking on form, than Owen and Young have to be in that squad.

Whilst I obviously have a bias towards Owen, Young's exclusion is criminal. England have harped on for a decade now about not having a player for the left side. Young was the best left sided midfielder in the premiership last season and performed on a consistent basis. How he has missed out is baffling.

Mr.Nice Guy · 31-08-2008 9:01pm

I think that's a joke of a squad. The likes of Upson, Bullard, Jenas and Heskey aren't up to it in my opinion.

I think the likes of Woodgate, Young and Agbonlahor deserve an opportunity and they have started the season brightly.

MagicMarker · 31-08-2008 9:08pm

Regardless of Owen's injuries, he has always performed for England, plus he always had a good partnership with Heskey, i would opt for owen/heskey over rooney/defoe.

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 9:10pm

I'm surprised no one has pointed out Beckham. At this stage they really need to be preparing for the next world cup. Will Beckham be fit to take part in it? I doubt it.

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 9:12pm

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Fair enough, maybe I am underrating him, but surely Owen has performed far far better in his last 10 premier league games.

Although TBH I don't think there is much point in comparing Owen to Walcott. Owen is an out and out striker whereas Walcott generally plays the wings. He has played on the right and the left this season. I'd say Capello has him in the squad as cover for these positions rather than up front.

Sqaull20 · 31-08-2008 9:14pm

Dont agree on Walcott, he's going to be huge imo.Owen hasnt been International class for years, either is Heskey, but not including Young and Agbonlahor is a joke.Both are exactly what England needs.

gixerfixer · 31-08-2008 9:14pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has pointed out Beckham. At this stage they really need to be preparing for the next world cup. Will Beckham be fit to take part in it? I doubt it.

Another good reason why Capello isnt up to the task IMO. Beckham has in effect being playing in a league comparable to the Coca-Cola 1st division in standard and yet walks into the team.

MagicMarker · 31-08-2008 9:14pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has pointed out Beckham. At this stage they really need to be preparing for the next world cup. Will Beckham be fit to take part in it? I doubt it.

Is he injured?

He was of the best players on the pitch against the czechs... By the time the world cup comes around he probably won't be in the starting line up, but he'll still be on the bench.

Mr Alan · 31-08-2008 9:22pm

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Club and National management are two very different beasts.

i understand that, but the man has not had ONE competitive game yet and is already being called a joke by people on here and having his decisions questioned in a massive way.

quite ironically, a lot of the same people are saying they expected brave calls from Fabio, and dropping/not selecting some players which may suprise people. but they then slate him for not dropping the players they would have dropped.

Then they actually criticise him for selecting the likes of Heskey or Bullard over Young and Owen........are these not counted as brave calls? or are they just not the brave calls people wanted him to make?

He said that he wouldn't be afraid to drop big names, and include players on merit, Bullard presumably highlighting this policy. Yet he still selects the likes of Lampard and Rooney who haven't performed at intl. level for years now.

he has dropped Owen, who in the England sense, is about the biggest name around. Lampard and Rooney have underperformed over the last few years-true-but is a managers job not to try and get the best out of his players? maybe he thinks he can get more out of them? maybe you and others should should actually wait till AFTER this round of games to criticise his squad selection?

Also funny you say he should definately pick Young, based on league form-but young got a shot in one of the friendlies and was ****e. should lampard not be given the same benefit of the doubt? as he has been excellent for Chelsea this season?

Young was the best left sided midfielder in the premiership last season and performed on a consistent basis. How he has missed out is baffling.

I agree. Yet people are ignoring the fact that Capello leaving him out (and Owen) is a massively brave call. Usually the same people are then criticising him for not making brave calls, strange.

basically, i just think people should show him a little respect and see how the games pan out.

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 9:30pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Is he injured?

I just mean he's getting old and hasn't had any seriously competitive match practice in years.

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 9:36pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

i understand that, but the man has not had ONE competitive game yet and is already being called a joke by people on here and having his decisions questioned in a massive way.

I have not read the whole thread, but anyone calling Fabio Capello a joke knows nothing about football imo.
Its ok to disagree with some selections, I mean I really am surprised that Ashley Young has not been picked. But to call the man a joke is just retarded.

Tom65 · 31-08-2008 9:38pm

Beckham has tended to be one of England's best players in the last few games. Whatever about whether he can play in the next World Cup, on the basis of the current games he can help them get there. It's a bit of a paradox because of everyone on the team, he's playing for what's probably the worst team in the worst league, but he improves the team.

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 9:38pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

I just mean he's getting old and hasn't had any seriously competitive match practice in years.

So winning La Liga 06/07 is not serious competitive match practice

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 9:41pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So winning La Liga 06/07 is not serious competitive match practice

Allow me to correct myself, by the time the World Cup is on he'll have gone 3 years without playing in a strong league. He has spent the last season playing alongside amateurs.

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 9:44pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

Allow me to correct myself, by the time the World Cup is on he'll have gone 3 years without playing in a strong league. He has spent the last season playing alongside amateurs.

So then what you are saying is that any manager who takes over a national team should only be allowed work with the team for how long

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 9:49pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So then what you are saying is that any manager who takes over a national team should only be allowed work with the team for how long

Um... what has that to do with what I said

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 9:56pm

Gaviscon wrote: »

Um... what has that to do with what I said

Ok, what you have said is that Fabio Capello is seriously lacking in serious football practice.
Heres a clue.

That is completely wrong, and anything you say after that, like he is involved with an amateur set up or whatever will not make it look any better.

Basically you just tried to give a reason why you don't fancy one of the most successful Managers in the world. You don't have a good argument and you are just digging a bigger hole.

MagicMarker · 31-08-2008 10:02pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Ok, what you have said is that Fabio Capello is seriously lacking in serious football practice.
Heres a clue.

That is completely wrong, and anything you say after that, like he is involved with an amateur set up or whatever will not make it look any better.

Basically you just tried to give a reason why you don't fancy one of the most successful Managers in the world. You don't have a good argument and you are just digging a bigger hole.

He's talking about Beckham.

eagle eye · 31-08-2008 10:13pm

My apologies there, I was certain you were talking about Capello. And the funny thing is that comment about La Liga applied to both.

On Beckham, he played pretty well in the last game, but I don't see him being around in three years time either. Agreed on that one.

Galvasean · 31-08-2008 10:25pm

eagle eye wrote: »

My apologies there, I was certain you were talking about Capello. And the funny thing is that comment about La Liga applied to both.

Definately talking about Beckham

Man that was confusing.

Charlie · 31-08-2008 10:30pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

i understand that, but the man has not had ONE competitive game yet and is already being called a joke by people on here and having his decisions questioned in a massive way.

Agreed, but I feel that people should be allow question decisions, that on paper, don't make sense. Noting OTT like calling him a joke, merely pointing out the perceived flaws.

Mr Alan wrote: »

quite ironically, a lot of the same people are saying they expected brave calls from Fabio, and dropping/not selecting some players which may suprise people. but they then slate him for not dropping the players they would have dropped.

Then they actually criticise him for selecting the likes of Heskey or Bullard over Young and Owen........are these not counted as brave calls? or are they just not the brave calls people wanted him to make?

But this is my point, his policy, and squad selections are contradictory. For me, he is dropping the players who should be there on merit (i.e. previous and current form) and keeping those who deserved to be dropped.

I have no big problem with Heskey (but surely you select Heseky for the successful Owen/Heskey partnership) or Bullard being there. But if a midfielder and striker are to be dropped for them, then it clearly has to be Rooney and Lampard, not Owen and Young.

In essence, I agree that brave calls need to be made, but Capello needs to stop making the easy drops (a Newcastle, Villa players) and make the tough ones ( United and Chelsea players). Good players like Scholes and Carra got jerked around because of these weak decisions, and England, imo, have suffered because of it.

vincenzo1975 · 31-08-2008 10:35pm

saw an interview with steve mcclaren before the arsenal twente game, and he basically was saying that Capello was now having the exact same problems that he had when he was manager, he said it with a big smile on his face, but did not getinto what they were. DEoes anyone have further background, I assume he meant pressure from FA/media/fans to pick big names rather then right players, and also big ego's in the squad.

I can never see england being a real 'team ' anyway, just big name individuals who want to be the headline grabber.

Devilman · 31-08-2008 10:44pm

The only reason I see for Bullards selection is the absence of Gerrard,Hargreaves and Carrick (however Scott Parker could've been picked). if any of those had been fit Bullard would definitely not be in the squad. As for Owen being dropped, OK for Andorra but for Croatia away when you are going to need at least 1 goal to get a point. Sorry Fabio, I don't see the reason behind dropping Englands best striker. I cannot see England getting 1 point in Zagrab nevermind 3 and I cant see goals coming from any combination of Heskey,Rooney and Defoe.

As for Beckham, hes good to have around on the training ground for younger players, but surely the idea of all the friendlies was to find replacements for ageing players like him.

PHB · 31-08-2008 11:58pm

Whatever about his general thing, not selecting Young is utterly perplexing to me. I can't understand how you'd pick even Walcott ahead of him?

Xavi6 · 01-09-2008 2:03am

I see that ever present at club level Wayne Bridge has made it again :rolleyes:

That is by far the biggest farce in the England set up.

Charlie · 01-09-2008 2:05am

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see that ever present at club level Wayne Bridge has made it again :rolleyes:

That is by far the biggest farce in the England set up.

From an outsiders point of view, it would seem that the lads from the big four are protected alot more, irrespective of club or intl. form. Not much of a change than from Sven.

eagle eye · 01-09-2008 2:29am

Xavi6 wrote: »

I see that ever present at club level Wayne Bridge has made it again :rolleyes:

That is by far the biggest farce in the England set up.

Name who should be there instead of him, I rate him the second best English left full. I think he has to be in the squad.

Xavi6 · 01-09-2008 2:34am

eagle eye wrote: »

Name who should be there instead of him, I rate him the second best English left full. I think he has to be in the squad.

And therein lies the problem with England. Players are picked on reputation not form.

There is no way a player who is content warming the bench at club level should get near an international squad. If I was Nicky Shorey I'd be pretty damn pissed off. Bridge has shown no ambition to play regular first team football as emphasised when he signed a new mega-money deal at Chelsea.

elshambo · 01-09-2008 2:37am

I think bullard is overdue a call up to be honest if only to find out if he is up to it, has made every step up so far without trouble.

Bullard:
Gets it
Gives it
Looks for it back again
Tracks back
Rarly gives the ball away
Puts in a shift whenever fit
Can cross a ball

That used to be the definition of a midfielder before the
superstars of Gerrard/Lampard/Cole etc changed it to

Gets it
Flicks it
Passes AT the furthest player
Shoots it
Runs past it

England midfield has been crying out for proper midfielders
for years, pity he probably wont use him

ps Holding players me h*le!

LuckyLloyd · 01-09-2008 3:54am

PHB wrote: »

Whatever about his general thing, not selecting Young is utterly perplexing to me. I can't understand how you'd pick even Walcott ahead of him?

Young was not good in the game time he has had in an England jersey so far. It isn't completely beyond the bounds of possibility that he failed to impress in every way while around Capello in an England meet - i.e. trained badly or lazily / displayed a bad attitude / seemed to be unresponsive to the coaches / didn't gel with other players.

elshambo wrote: »

I think bullard is overdue a call up to be honest if only to find out if he is up to it, has made every step up so far without trouble.

Bullard:
Gets it
Gives it
Looks for it back again
Tracks back
Rarly gives the ball away
Puts in a shift whenever fit
Can cross a ball

That used to be the definition of a midfielder before the
superstars of Gerrard/Lampard/Cole etc changed it to

Gets it
Flicks it
Passes AT the furthest player
Shoots it
Runs past it

England midfield has been crying out for proper midfielders
for years, pity he probably wont use him

ps Holding players me h*le!

I like this post. Bullard is a good player and, most crucially, a very different type of midfielder to the regulars in the squad. Options cannot be a bad thing surely?

Beckham will probably make squads for as long as he is playing just because he won't be losing his ability with a dead ball any time soon. He provides something that most teams in the world can't match. And even to have him on the bench as an impact sub when you are chasing the game and need to make the most of EVERY chance justifies his selection.

And finally, the Owen omission is the biggest head scratcher for me. He has a phenomenal record internationally and has always scored at club level when fit. Maybe Capello was skeptical about his fitness levels? After all, he hasn't played a lot of games (relatively speaking) in the last 12 months. But yeah, this one is the most difficult to understand I think.

England Squad Announced - Bullard Included, No Young or Owen

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