Any planned protest marches?

Faustino wrote: »

I'm afraid you have things completely wrong, I have never said that a protest should be against the government.. for now that is totally pointless and whenever an election is called people will voice their opinion then.

What is happening now with the IMF coming in, that is what we should be protesting against.. we are fully funded and liquid for another year almost.. why should we take a massive bailout now just because the Germans want us to?

The quick turn of events was engineered in a meeting two weeks ago and the screw has been turning on Ireland ever since.. and now we are to ask for the help of the same people who caused this situation?

A protest may not achieve much but at least it would show that the Irish actually give two sh*t's about their own country and their own futures.

I have been totally disgusted with the indifference shown regarding such a massive issue.

The IMF aren't doing this out of the good of their hearts.. this is big business.. and unfortunately we're in their sights as the next huge opportunity for profit.

This isn't about our government, it's about the bigger picture.

You'd no doubt be the first to complain if we ran out of cash next June, that we hadn't foreseen the event and borrowed more sooner...

Faustino wrote: »

Don't take me literally.. i mean 3 weeks ago this was not headline news.. 2 weeks ago there's a big Eurozone meeting.. the Germans throw doubt into the market by their comments.. then for the last 2 weeks almost the whole of Europe have turned on us.. and mark my words, this bailout will come with conditions and we can kiss out corporation tax levels goodbye.

You would question the motives of the other nations.

while i disagree with your planned protest , i agree with you about germany and the wreckless ( and convenient ) lending by thier banks , the tone certainly changed in the past two weeks , the whole thing shifted several gears and suddenly ireland was the biggest global story , it doesnt really make sense , the ( non bank ) economy is no worse now than it was six months ago , its better in fact , i could be wrong but i believe the events of the last week were probabley building for a while ( behind the scenes ) , beit our own citizens or foreign account holders , thier has obviously been a run on the banks for a while now , public figures made statements in the past fortnight and the rate of withdrawls greatly instensified and all of a sudden , it was the man in the streets biggest concern , the british and especially the germans , fearing a domino effect caused by insolvent irish banks , hit the panic button and decided that ireland would be made to suffer in order to protect the prescious eurozone project , sending in the IMF is the aliby , we are being potrayed as being in need of charity and while our debt issue was a serious one , within the space of a week , we were being compared to argentina circa 2001 or some 3rd world country which the IMF assett strips every other week , it troubles me greatly that irish people,s fear and subsequent mass withdrawl of savings may have greatly accelerated the drastic measures we now see being taken , i myself took out some savings and i feel bad about it now , it was only in the past two days that i realised the extent to which british and german banks were dependant on the survival of the irish banking system , its now blatantly obvious that savings were never in the slighest bit of trouble , not because our goverment were capable of preventing such an outcome or because the british are such a good neighbour but because were we to head over the cliff , we were taking the most powerfull european countries with us , they could not afford to let us fail ,( kelvin mc kenzie said those exact words on queston time uk the other night ), we are now pawns in a continential game of chess and the nominated lambs to the slaughter

having said all that stuff about europe , i belive had this wretched goverment stepped down two years ago or at least two months ago , the people could have gave a new mandate to the next goverment and would have been willing to move on , such was the distrust for this goverment and such was thier cynicism , the public adopted the same cynicism and an every man for himself policy was adopted , to hell with the country , im getting my savings , cowens thick stuborness and lennehans slyness are the main reasons we find ourselves in a such a mess , its truly mind boggling how things could have gotten to this stage , i find it hard to take it all in , ive never been so uncertain in my own country and although im not a religous man , i pray some leadership will appear and inspire us to rebuld our country , spirit and charechter

its going to be a long road back

Faustino wrote: »

Great post.. nail on head about being caught in a game of chess.

its long and quite muddled but im sincere when i say im dumbfounded at how the game has shifted , one minute we were another western country with a major imbalance between income and expendeture , next minute were a project for the IMF which is facing a landscape shift both politically and economically

I'd like to partake but all my money has already been moved out of the banks.

There is a lot of people stating that "we are giving away power to people we do not elect". Frankly speaking, the reality over the past 30 years since the rise of neo-liberal economics, globalisation, free markets is that elections matter less and less. Markets decide, and good governance dictates that common sense prevails above factions, lobby groups, and other self interested factions that put themselves first, friends and family next, county third, nation last.

The people who caused this have moved their money far away from Europe, as witnessed by David Drumm filing for bankruptcy in Boston. This indicates to me that a fundamental reform of our bankruptcy laws is required. Not for the likes of David Drumm, but for the likes of ordinary people owing exhorbitant amounts on mortgages. It should be carefully thought out however, in order to prevent a resumption of the grave moral financial hazard that has prevailed since 2008. No Bank should ever require recourse to Government assistance. It is an insidious form of welfare capitalism that should be consigned to the dustbin of kleptocratic regimes such as Abacha of Nigeria, and Suharto of Indonesia.

Common sense dictates that should be the other way around.

If in 2002, or 2007, the Government in its election manifesto stated the following:

- We are putting the brakes on this economic boom/bubble before it overheats, derails and becomes a train wreck.

Would Fianna Fail have been reelected?

I very much doubt it. Love them or loathe them, my naive view at the time was best to let them take the flak for the downturn, for they took the credit for the boom. Actually, I am glad they are taking the stick for the crash, could you imagine a leadership in charge being unjustly blamed for something they inherited, such as Obama is now in the United States?

The penny is beginning to drop for the people of Ireland, as an incestuous relationship between the Banks, Real Estate Agents, Auctioneers, Publicans, Union chiefs, Builders, Solicitors, Politicians and County councillors is being revealed. It permeates Irish society, poisons it, stifles it, and it is legal. Worse that legal, it is legalised corruption, where the laws are tailored to protect their exposure, under the guise of libel, slander, presumption of guilt before proof. Whatever it is called, and I cannot quite find the words to express it, it is wrong, and it has failed.

It is not a meritocracy, it is not a democracy, its a who you know o'crazy.

Personally, my suggested peaceful passive style of protest is to start making papier mache dolls of all the culprits, and have toy Guillotines. Sing Amhran na Bfhiann and hammer on pots and pans, as each toy effigy has its head chopped off. The pots and pans idea is taken from Argentina, and the Toy Guillotine - it should only ever be a toy, plastic blunt blade used on the toy, head can be reattached for usage in every small town.

The next aspect of the protest should be community and volunteer based. Start small, and work our way along. Look after your neighbours, and be the best and kindest you can if you can afford to.

Those who can afford to pay statutory taxes such as the TV licence, send a letter stating that you are donating the money to St Vincent De Paul, A Homeless charity, or many other worthy causes that need your money at this time.

They cannot possibly issue summonses on every single household that engages in a protest in this stealthy manner. What is more, you have been honest, transparent and honourable in informing that this is your method of protesting. State that you will willingly resume payment when the people who caused this answer and pay for their actions.

Mob rule and rioting will merely serve to discredit Ireland and its people. They wonder why we do not riot. I would like to believe that it is down to pragmatism and common sense on the part of the majority.

The situation is truly awful now. But I believe that creation cannot occur unless an old discredited system and order is removed and replaced. There have been silent revolutions before in Irish society, as witnessed in the early 1990's with the fall from grace of Charles Haughey, the Bishop Eamonn Casey scandal, the exposure of planning corruption. At each turn, while the tribunals cost hundreds of millions, the exchequer and taxpayer benefitted by billions. While I despise tribunals, they managed to unearth enough money at a cost-return ratio of 1,000% .

Some may call this an economic apocalypse for Ireland. Apocalypse however means revelation. A light will be shone and reveal the dark deeds of those entrusted with power, with our money, with our wealth in Irish society. If it takes an outsider from the IMF or ECB to reveal it, let it be. Our own leaders have failed, let the outsiders have a look, and then we will see their wicked deeds exposed for all to see.

Faustino wrote: »

Which is exactly how they would like to be perceived.. seriously, make no mistake.. they are here for their benefit, not ours.

There's no benefit in us having to forklift another few pallets of cash into Anglo, AIB and BOI this side of Christmas, then finding ourselves with 2-3 months of cash left to run the state and before we see Paddys Day, we have run out of cash to pay the Gardai, nurses, teachers, army, etc. Because if we allow that to come to pass, you may as well find yourself living in Bangladesh or Somalia.

The figures do not lie, do you think we can survive without this bailout, in the context of the markets being shut to us and the ECB nearly having been pulled down by our banks?!?! We should be lucky that the IMF are even talking to us and are not worried about being dragged into insolvency by the state of us...