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Funding loyalists from the Republic?

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  • 13-04-2015 6:06pm
    #1
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭


    How much funding did the Northern loyalists receive from the South in the 1960s and 1970s? I read in a book (Trigger men) that they did get some financial support down here. Anyone have more info?


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    #2
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    I would have thought that would be extremely unlikely. What loyalists sympathisers in the south would want or be in a position to send funds north, or are you suggesting the proceeds of church fetes found there way to the UVF/UDA etc. :rolleyes:

    ****



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    #3
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Most of Martin Dillon's books are based on extensive interviews with individuals involved in the conflict. I'd say the reference in the Trigger Men is based on a personal comment. I doubt there is any actual documentary record for this.


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    #4
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    IIRC the suggestion/hint in that book is that funding came from certain landed gentry/old Anglo-Irish families. As Arsemageddon says though, I would be surprised if any documentary evidence.

    However, a claim also made in the book that there were southern links to the Kincora scandal seems to be backed up by other sources:

    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/569181/sex-abuse-claims-Leo-McKinstry


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    #5
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    BS in my view. Easy to make a daft claim like that with no means to back it up. Even if something like it did happen, how many "certain old landed gentry " had the cash to donate? Would it not be a drop in the ocean to say, for e.g. the Northern Bank job, or the countless raids and extortion rackets run by the IRA and the funds from NORAID?:rolleyes:


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    #6
    IrishProd
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭IrishProd


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    BS in my view. Easy to make a daft claim like that with no means to back it up. Even if something like it did happen, how many "certain old landed gentry " had the cash to donate? Would it not be a drop in the ocean to say, for e.g. the Northern Bank job, or the countless raids and extortion rackets run by the IRA and the funds from NORAID?:rolleyes:

    Talking about loyalists not the IRA.

    Anyway, sure go ask your average drug supplier in the north and I an sure they'll tell you how much loyalists take in from drug dealing.

    I imagine they take in a lot as I assume they probably have a monopoly on the 'trade' seeing as to how vicious they are.


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    #7
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    BS in my view. Easy to make a daft claim like that with no means to back it up. Even if something like it did happen, how many "certain old landed gentry " had the cash to donate? Would it not be a drop in the ocean to say, for e.g. the Northern Bank job, or the countless raids and extortion rackets run by the IRA and the funds from NORAID?:rolleyes:

    Some are relatively impoverished due to huge costs of running stately homes, but others would have had the cash to donate, you realise some of them send their kids to Eton and other public schools to this day? Doesn't mean they necessarily did, of course.


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    #8
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Some are relatively impoverished due to huge costs of running stately homes, but others would have had the cash to donate, you realise some of them send their kids to Eton and other public schools to this day? Doesn't mean they necessarily did, of course.

    And these Anglo Irish families would have supported loyalists while sending their children to English, and Irish, Public schools - where many of whom would have followed the time honoured path to Sandhurst and ultimately to possible service in NI. I think not.

    ****



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    #9
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    And these Anglo Irish families would have supported loyalists while sending their children to English, and Irish, Public schools - where many of whom would have followed the time honoured path to Sandhurst and ultimately to possible service in NI. I think not.
    >>> MOD EDIT- post removed as it is completely irrelevant<<<


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    #10
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    There is absolutely no evidence that so called landed gentry in the South ever funded thr Loyalists. A very easy allegation to make but nothing to back up. In a previous job in equine industry I interactrd with many of these people. Some sent their kids to school in England but very few, some to boarding school in Ireland and some to the local school. They were land rich in a lot of cases but out of a sense of duty had to maintain the family home which was expensive. I never heard any of them expressing any support for the Loyalists and many were involved in politics locally or supported local farming issues etc.


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    #11
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    The extract from the book the OP is referring to appears to be this:

    (from p.117)

    "While writing this book, I was astonished to discover that there were figures within 'aristocratic' circles on both sides of the border who provided funding to loyalists for weapons In one instance, a figure who lived in the Irish Republic with connections to royalty conspired with others to have weapons shipped into Northern Ireland"


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    #12
    Pocoyo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    EDITED BY MODERATOR>

    Infraction for trolling. If you genuinely want to post on the forum then first read some of the guidelines about requirements for sources when making inflammatory posts.
    Moderator


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    #13
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    There is absolutely no evidence that so called landed gentry in the South ever funded thr Loyalists. A very easy allegation to make but nothing to back up. In a previous job in equine industry I interactrd with many of these people. Some sent their kids to school in England but very few, some to boarding school in Ireland and some to the local school. They were land rich in a lot of cases but out of a sense of duty had to maintain the family home which was expensive. I never heard any of them expressing any support for the Loyalists and many were involved in politics locally or supported local farming issues etc.

    I have no doubt vast majority had no truck with either loyalist or any other terrorism, but you really can't make the claim in the first sentence, how could you possibly know? It would hardly be something they would advertise or brag about.

    Charles Haughey was put on trial for assisting a covert plan to smuggle arms to republicans across the border (he was acquitted, but a whiff of sulphur remains), I certainly don't find it entirely implausible that were some south of the border who assisted other side.


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    #14
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    porsche959 wrote: »
    I have no doubt vast majority had no truck with either loyalist or any other terrorism, but you really can't make the claim in the first sentence, how could you possibly know? It would hardly be something they would advertise or brag about.

    Charles Haughey was put on trial for assisting a covert plan to smuggle arms to republicans across the border (he was acquitted, but a whiff of sulphur remains), I certainly don't find it entirely implausible that were some south of the border who assisted other side.
    Show us any evidence and we can make a judgement but in the absence of evidence it all smoke no fire. As regards Haughey the big issue was whether or not the importation of arms was agreed by the Cabinet. The evidence of Jim Gibbons was so undermined that the accused got the benefit of the doubt


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