more traffic chaos

johnny johnny j · 05-11-2006 11:42pm #1

Hello

OPW are proposing changes to Phoenix Park layout that will add to traffic chaos throughout the city.

Among other things, they want to make the Park safer & more enjoyable for cyclists & visitors alike. They also propose running a double decker bus from one end to the other.... GO FIGURE!!

They propose creating a one-way system which will only make traffic in Dublin worse north and south of the city.

You can read more about it here http://www.opw.ie/

Please fill in the feedback form & let OPW commissioner David Byers know what you think.

Thanks for reading.

Wishbone Ash · 05-11-2006 11:44pm

johnny johnny j wrote:

let OPW commissioner David Byers know what you think.

Maybe we all think it's a great idea.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-11-2006 11:46pm

johnny johnny j wrote:

Hello

OPW are proposing changes to Phoenix Park layout that will add to traffic chaos throughout the city.

Among other things, they want to make the Park safer & more enjoyable for cyclists & visitors alike. They also propose running a double decker bus from one end to the other.... GO FIGURE!!

They propose creating a one-way system which will only make traffic in Dublin worse north and south of the city.

You can read more about it here http://www.opw.ie/

Please fill in the feedback form & let OPW commissioner David Byers know what you think.

Thanks for reading.

Is there somewhere I can vote IN FAVOUR of the idea...?

Idleater · 06-11-2006 10:47am

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Is there somewhere I can vote IN FAVOUR of the idea...?

I agree, sounds like an excellent idea.

"traffic chaos" :rolleyes: ... stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution...

Ste.phen · 06-11-2006 12:31pm

I just had a quick look through the study and I think it's a great idea.

Because the whole idea seems to be reducing through traffic, they've only recommended one through-park Dublin Bus route in addition to the OPW-provided weekend shuttle, (They recommended some variant of the 37 route).

I think a better solution would be to allow far more through-park buses, and ease pressure on the Navan Rd for buses, which I'm sure Dublni Bus would like.

Then again, the OPW are trying to reduce traffic, and seem to believe that a single route bringing park workers into the park is sufficient, with their shuttle service handling most of the weekend recreational traffic.

In conclusion: I approve

Ste.phen · 06-11-2006 12:34pm

by the way, the study details and appendices are at:
http://www.opw.ie/phoenixpark/phoenix.htm

Stark · 06-11-2006 9:57pm

nereid wrote:

I agree, sounds like an excellent idea.

"traffic chaos" :rolleyes: ... stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution...

You've gotta win some to lose some. Loving your clichéd rhetoric, you certainly can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs with their unhatched chickens.

The closure of Phoenix Park to through traffic would cause much of that area of Dublin to grind to a halt I reckon. It's bad enough when there's a crash somewhere on the M50 and the knock-on effects extend for miles.

I don't think traffic through the park makes that much of a difference to the quality of the area. I've never been bothered by the traffic when going jogging or cycling there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-11-2006 10:10pm

Stark wrote:

The closure of Phoenix Park to through traffic would cause much of that area of Dublin to grind to a halt I reckon. It's bad enough when there's a crash somewhere on the M50 and the knock-on effects extend for miles.

"WOULD" cause...?

There is only one thing that will cut down on the traffic and that's getting drivers out of their cars via decent public transport. Nuff said.

Is Johnny johny J or whatever he called himself coming back at some point to fight his corner?

Stark · 06-11-2006 10:19pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

There is only one thing that will cut down on the traffic and that's getting drivers out of their cars via decent public transport. Nuff said.

That would be great, but how about getting the decent public transport into place before closing the park. How are commuters from Navan going to be fare once the Phoenix Park is closed? Where's the Navan rail line?

What about having a Luas line through the park?

johnny johnny j · 06-11-2006 10:26pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

"WOULD" cause...?

There is only one thing that will cut down on the traffic and that's getting drivers out of their cars via decent public transport. Nuff said.

Is Johnny johny J or whatever he called himself coming back at some point to fight his corner?

exactly;decent public transport. theres no point in closing roads to traffic without first improving other areas like public transport. closing roads then sitting on buses for even longer in worse traffic? doesnt make sense to me.
as usual its not thought through, theres no consultation with the public... this is the peoples park, not the OPWs park, not Dublin Buses park etc etc.

building a new car park beside the Zoo isnt exactly an environmentalists dream... neither is running a double decker bus from one-end to the other

by the way, you think when they ban parking on byroads that this new carpark will be free?

i can't see how this will benefit wildlife and/or cyclists (or cycling wildlife for that matter) whatsoever

johnny johnny j · 06-11-2006 10:50pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

"WOULD" cause...?

There is only one thing that will cut down on the traffic and that's getting drivers out of their cars via decent public transport. Nuff said.

Is Johnny johny J or whatever he called himself coming back at some point to fight his corner?

also, with all this talk of decentralisation & an ever-expanding dublin, why should everyone be steered in the direction of dublin city centre? why (in alot of cases) should you have to get at least 2 stinky, wet buses to get to where you want to go? this is only adding to this problem

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-11-2006 11:00pm

johnny johnny j wrote:

also, with all this talk of decentralisation & an ever-expanding dublin, why should everyone be steered in the direction of dublin city centre? why (in alot of cases) should you have to get at least 2 stinky, wet buses to get to where you want to go? this is only adding to this problem

They're not bloody coffin ships!!

I'm of the opinion that drivers are too lazy and have to much of a stigma about public trasnport to ever give up their cars. There was one guy on here a while back tying to get us on board the idea of banning bus lanes.

Stark · 06-11-2006 11:12pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

I'm of the opinion that drivers are too lazy and have to much of a stigma about public trasnport to ever give up their cars.

What do you mean by too lazy to not drive? Too lazy to stand for 40 mins in the rain waiting for a bus that may or may not show? Too lazy to get up an extra 2 hours earlier to make it into work? If the public transport system was of a high enough quality, the lazy people would be the first to use it as they could have their little snooze/read the paper and then not have to worry about parking when they get to work. That's how it is in countries with high quality public transport.

After the years I spent dependant on the bus in Cork, I definitely have a stigma at this stage about bus transport. That doesn't mean I don't use public transport when the service is good. If I was living in London, I'd use the tubes all the time rather than drive. When I can, I use the LUAS in Dublin. When I was living along one of the better serviced Dublin Bus routes, I used to use the bus all the time there. At the moment though, I only use Dublin Bus when I'm heading to city centre as the service just isn't reliable enough for work (no radial routes for a start, and if I was to get into city centre, the bus service to where I work is ****, so it'd be 90 mins for that leg alone).

Even if could cycle without signifigant risk to myself, I'd do that. (I used to cycle all the time when I lived in a safer area for cycling). At the moment though, Dublin is a car-centric city as far as I'm concerned.

johnny johnny j · 06-11-2006 11:15pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

They're not bloody coffin ships!!

I'm of the opinion that drivers are too lazy and have to much of a stigma about public trasnport to ever give up their cars. There was one guy on here a while back tying to get us on board the idea of banning bus lanes.

almost!
i think public transport should be top class and everyone should use it. but until i don't have to get 2 buses to where i wanna go 9because it takes hours) & until i don't have to stand in the rain & then get on a bus with rain dripping down the windows i'll drive, thanks.
oh yea... what ever happened to the no-smoking rules on buses?
really well enforced... just like litter fines!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-11-2006 11:17pm

johnny johnny j wrote:

almost!
i think public transport should be top class and everyone should use it. but until i don't have to get 2 buses to where i wanna go 9because it takes hours) & until i don't have to stand in the rain & then get on a bus with rain dripping down the windows i'll drive, thanks.
oh yea... what ever happened to the no-smoking rules on buses?
really well enforced... just like litter fines!

Only smoker I ever saw on a bus got lifted out of the driver.

The rain, unfortauntely, is beyond out control. It happens, people get wet, live with it. You're not wrapped in cotton wool.

Define "Top Class"

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-11-2006 11:21pm

Stark wrote:

What do you mean by too lazy to not drive? Too lazy to stand for 40 mins in the rain waiting for a bus that may or may not show? Too lazy to get up an extra 2 hours earlier to make it into work? If the public transport system was of a high enough quality, the lazy people would be the first to use it as they could have their little snooze/read the paper and then not have to worry about parking when they get to work. That's how it is in countries with high quality public transport.

After the years I spent dependant on the bus in Cork, I definitely have a stigma at this stage about bus transport. That doesn't mean I don't use public transport when the service is good. If I was living in London, I'd use the tubes all the time rather than drive. When I can, I use the LUAS in Dublin. When I was living along one of the better serviced Dublin Bus routes, I used to use the bus all the time there. At the moment though, I only use Dublin Bus when I'm heading to city centre as the service just isn't reliable enough for work (no radial routes for a start, and if I was to get into city centre, the bus service to where I work is ****, so it'd be 90 mins for that leg alone).

Even if could cycle without signifigant risk to myself, I'd do that. (I used to cycle all the time when I lived in a safer area for cycling). At the moment though, Dublin is a car-centric city as far as I'm concerned.

It is. Which has to change. And most drivers are not willing to make the sacrifice and are sitting behind the public-transport excuse.

You, however, appear to be the exception to the rule. That or I'm wrong, but judging by the conversations I've had with drivers, I don't think so.

kizzyr · 07-11-2006 9:46am

None of us have a divine right to use the Park as we currently do. In fact it was only opened to traffic in the first place on a temporary basis when the Navan Road was being built and later improved. The OPW can actually close it off to general use if they want.
I agree with the proposed moves by the OPW. The Park is meant to be a park after all and for rest and relaxation not a main road for traffic jams.

Metrobest · 08-11-2006 12:12pm

The 37 through the Park would be a wonderful bus route, far quicker than via the Navan Road and connecting it to Heuston, Luas and, in the distant future, the suburban rail interconnector.

Hundreds of deer in the Park were recently exterminated by heartless city planners. The deer were a danger to cars, said the planenrs. What kind of philistine planners would cull deer to make it easier for cars to use a fine green space as a rat run?

I've always felt the Phoenix Park is too big for its purpose however. There's too much empty space that's not used. Much of is of dubious heritage value.

I think it could become a wonderful high density community close to the city centre.

"Phoenixville" could be developed in harmony with its surroundings as a "green village" with all the usual energy efficient stuff. No building would be taller than the trees, giving it a sense of scale, yet allowing for the kind of density that would sustain high density transport such as an extention of the Heuston-Connolly luas.

Ironically, for a park that's supposed to be the "green lung" of the city, the only way to reach it easily by car as it is (a) too big and (b) surrounded by low density housing, typically of a semi-detached nature.

In this context, why boast that the Phoneix Park is so large? It needn't be so. As Dublin spreads out like a giant doughnut, the Phoneix Park is the green elephant in the room, offering a radical solution.

Don't get me wrong: I value that Park and I want it to prosper. But part of the solution involves making it more accessible to people. The best parks in the world all of one thing in common: accesibilty to vast numbers of people. Phoenix Park hasn't got that. This situation needs to change.

"Phoneixville" would breathe new life into that Park, changing it from rat run into heaps of fun with new facilities like restaurants, coin-operated barbeques (in summer

), kiosks hiring out rollerblades and lots of places to chill out in.

Does anyone else see the potential?

kizzyr · 08-11-2006 2:32pm

Metrobest wrote:

The 37 through the Park would be a wonderful bus route, far quicker than via the Navan Road and connecting it to Heuston, Luas and, in the distant future, the suburban rail interconnector.

Hundreds of deer in the Park were recently exterminated by heartless city planners. The deer were a danger to cars, said the planenrs. What kind of philistine planners would cull deer to make it easier for cars to use a fine green space as a rat run?

I've always felt the Phoenix Park is too big for its purpose however. There's too much empty space that's not used. Much of is of dubious heritage value.

I think it could become a wonderful high density community close to the city centre.

"Phoenixville" could be developed in harmony with its surroundings as a "green village" with all the usual energy efficient stuff. No building would be taller than the trees, giving it a sense of scale, yet allowing for the kind of density that would sustain high density transport such as an extention of the Heuston-Connolly luas.

Ironically, for a park that's supposed to be the "green lung" of the city, the only way to reach it easily by car as it is (a) too big and (b) surrounded by low density housing, typically of a semi-detached nature.

In this context, why boast that the Phoneix Park is so large? It needn't be so. As Dublin spreads out like a giant doughnut, the Phoneix Park is the green elephant in the room, offering a radical solution.

Don't get me wrong: I value that Park and I want it to prosper. But part of the solution involves making it more accessible to people. The best parks in the world all of one thing in common: accesibilty to vast numbers of people. Phoenix Park hasn't got that. This situation needs to change.

"Phoneixville" would breathe new life into that Park, changing it from rat run into heaps of fun with new facilities like restaurants, coin-operated barbeques (in summer ), kiosks hiring out rollerblades and lots of places to chill out in.

Does anyone else see the potential?

I think some parts of your idea are great, especially the last part. However I really don't like the idea of building houses or apartments in the park itself. I also agree that it is very difficult to get to and wonderfuly ironic that you have to drive there to go for a walk or run:rolleyes: and I do think it is under used but a full on no to the building idea.

Stark · 08-11-2006 2:43pm

Metrobest wrote:

"Phoneixville" would breathe new life into that Park, changing it from rat run into heaps of fun with new facilities like restaurants, coin-operated barbeques (in summer ), kiosks hiring out rollerblades and lots of places to chill out in.

Does anyone else see the potential?

Can we cull all the animals in the zoo so that there are only giraffes left?

Ste.phen · 08-11-2006 2:55pm

They take up a lot of vertical space though....

jlang · 09-11-2006 2:57am

No need, there's already plans for a giraffe only zoo in the Bay.

more traffic chaos

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