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5 Summons Driving Issue

  • 05-08-2010 3:16am
    #1
    jdooley28
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭


    So, i got stopped for being on the phone a while ago got 2 penalty points which i paid no bother. But at the time i was asked for my license which I didnt have as I had just passed my test and had not yet sent away for a full license. So i explained this and the garda told me to go down to the tax office next day and sort it out and I had 10 days to produce that and my insurance cert. of course the license i sent away for didn't arrive within 10 days(took 14) so on the 10th day i went in with my receipt for the license and my insurance cert & was told they were no good without the actual license and there was nothing that could be done for me. today a garda arrived at the house with 5 summons for me, failing/refusing to produce a license 2) same but to produce an insurance cert 3) failing to produce a license within the 10 days 4) driving w/o insurance 5) driving w/o a license. basicaly whats most likely gonna happen? best/worst case scenario?

    cheers


Comments

  • #2
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    jdooley28 wrote: »
    So, i got stopped for being on the phone a while ago got 2 penalty points which i paid no bother. But at the time i was asked for my license which I didnt have as I had just passed my test and had not yet sent away for a full license. So i explained this and the garda told me to go down to the tax office next day and sort it out and I had 10 days to produce that and my insurance cert. of course the license i sent away for didn't arrive within 10 days(took 14) so on the 10th day i went in with my receipt for the license and my insurance cert & was told they were no good without the actual license and there was nothing that could be done for me. today a garda arrived at the house with 5 summons for me, failing/refusing to produce a license 2) same but to produce an insurance cert 3) failing to produce a license within the 10 days 4) driving w/o insurance 5) driving w/o a license. basicaly whats most likely gonna happen? best/worst case scenario?

    cheers

    Bring them to the garda station and ask to show them to the garda who is named on them. If there's no success with that bring everything to court and show him there.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Turn up in court on the day in question. Seek out the garda and show them the documents that prove you were ok to drive on the day in question. The case will be struck out.


  • #4
    Paulw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    foreign wrote: »
    Turn up in court on the day in question. Seek out the garda and show them the documents that prove you were ok to drive on the day in question. The case will be struck out.

    But, the OP isn't ok. The OP didn't have a valid driving license at the time when stopped. He still had a drivers permit, and was driving unaccompanied.

    You don't hold a valid driving license until you get it. Even though you have passed the test and sent in the documentation, you are not the holder of a valid driving license.

    I think the OP needs a good solicitor when going to court, and may not be able to avoid a fine and points.


  • #5
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Paulw wrote: »
    But, the OP isn't ok. The OP didn't have a valid driving license at the time when stopped. He still had a drivers permit, and was driving unaccompanied.

    You don't hold a valid driving license until you get it. Even though you have passed the test and sent in the documentation, you are not the holder of a valid driving license.

    I think the OP needs a good solicitor when going to court, and may not be able to avoid a fine and points.

    He had a permit and a cert of competency. It would be a hard garda or judge who didn't accept that as a full licence. The suggestion that you would have to stay off the road for the two weeks after your test while you wait for your full licence to arrive doesn't make for a very workable system.


  • #6
    Paulw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    k_mac wrote: »
    He had a permit and a cert of competency. It would be a hard garda or judge who didn't accept that as a full licence. The suggestion that you would have to stay off the road for the two weeks after your test while you wait for your full licence to arrive doesn't make for a very workable system.

    When you pass your test, the intructor makes it very clear that you do not hold a driving license until you submit your documents and get back a valid driving license. You are reminded, that until then you are still driving on a learners permit and must be accompanied by a valid driving license holder.

    While I get what you mean, it wouldn't surprise me if some Gardai or even a judge sticks to the letter of the law. And don't tell me there are no hard Gardai nor judges out there.

    It's something that people need to be aware of, which is why driving instructors have to remind you once you pass your test.


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  • #7
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Paulw wrote: »
    When you pass your test, the intructor makes it very clear that you do not hold a driving license until you submit your documents and get back a valid driving license. You are reminded, that until then you are still driving on a learners permit and must be accompanied by a valid driving license holder.

    While I get what you mean, it wouldn't surprise me if some Gardai or even a judge sticks to the letter of the law. And don't tell me there are no hard Gardai nor judges out there.

    It's something that people need to be aware of, which is why driving instructors have to remind you once you pass your test.
    They do tell you. I must have been told at every stage of the process... not to say it happens the majority of the time, I think that most people are aware - they just believe that they won't get caught and they risk it. Not saying that is what OP did, but I'd venture to say 9 times out of 10 it is risking it rather than ignorance.


  • #8
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Paulw wrote: »
    When you pass your test, the intructor makes it very clear that you do not hold a driving license until you submit your documents and get back a valid driving license. You are reminded, that until then you are still driving on a learners permit and must be accompanied by a valid driving license holder.

    While I get what you mean, it wouldn't surprise me if some Gardai or even a judge sticks to the letter of the law. And don't tell me there are no hard Gardai nor judges out there.

    It's something that people need to be aware of, which is why driving instructors have to remind you once you pass your test.

    I suppose its something that should be addressed in legislation. Technically you would be comitting an offence even if you have a full licenced driver as you cannot produce your licence to the garda because it has been sent away.


  • #9
    Paulw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    k_mac wrote: »
    I suppose its something that should be addressed in legislation. Technically you would be comitting an offence even if you have a full licenced driver as you cannot produce your licence to the garda because it has been sent away.

    Actually, you've a very good point there. You can't produce a license, nor can you produce your learner's permit.


  • #10
    Doop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Doop


    foreign wrote: »
    Turn up in court on the day in question. Seek out the garda and show them the documents that prove you were ok to drive on the day in question. The case will be struck out.

    +1

    Very same thing happened to me (wasnt about using a mobile tho).

    There isnt much can be done once the summons is issued you have to go to court. I went down and had a chat with the gaurd in question at his station. He said we'd have to go to court but told me to show up early and find him, and remind him about the situation.

    When we got called up by the judge the gaurd did all the talking and asked that it be thrown out. In fairness that gaurd was pretty sound... who'd a thunk it! :P


  • #11
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    k_mac wrote: »
    I suppose its something that should be addressed in legislation. Technically you would be comitting an offence even if you have a full licenced driver as you cannot produce your licence to the garda because it has been sent away.
    I agree, but I don't think it should be as strict as the USA.
    In the US, if you don't have the licence on you it doesn't matter whether or not you technically hold one, you can get ticketed for not carrying your licence while driving - it is at the officer's discretion (they always exercise that discretion and give you a ticket :o).

    Our licences are so big and annoying that there have been times where I jump in the car to go to the shop and realise when I'm there that I left it in my jacket at home (or something like that). I've never been pulled over, but I'd hate to have a ticket for simply not having the paper on me.


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  • #12
    Paulw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    OisinT wrote: »
    In the US, if you don't have the licence on you it doesn't matter whether or not you technically hold one, you can get ticketed for not carrying your licence while driving - it is at the officer's discretion (they always exercise that discretion and give you a ticket :o).

    The law is the same here. The Gardai don't have to give you 10 days to produce. It is an offence to not have your license with you when asked. Offence under section 40 of Road Traffic Act, 1961.


  • #13
    jdooley28
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭jdooley28


    i see ur point about not having a full license until i sent awat for it, but i dont have a summons for that, if they wanted to make a big deal of that would have to deal with it separately


  • #14
    nuac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,769 ✭✭✭nuac


    1. Meet the Gárda with all your documents. While summonses are served on you, they may not yet be entered for court hearing.

    2. If above not successful, get a solicitor. Don't take chances with your licence. The fact that you were driving while using a phone may not come out in court as there is not a summons for that, but it does display casualness and would not impress a judge if disclosed.

    3. The Gárda concerned or a third party may tell you that you don't need a solicitor. However once the summons is before the court, the judge is in charge. The Gárda concerned may know the form of the usual judge, and his/her advice would be in good faith and correct for that judge. Then you find that the some other judge is there who takes a different view.

    Good luck


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